Roster/Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2023-24: Hotel California

[periferal]

Rodrigues and Forsling are the types of players you need to make long playoff runs and be consistent contenders. These players are diamonds in the rough. I've long been critical of LL because he doesn't seem to have the ability or the interest to target such players. He is heavy handed. He likes expensive, known commodities. He doesn't have a nuanced approach to adding players. For instance, he's much more likely to spend premium assets and cap space on a guy like JGP than to sign an Evan Rodrigues, a relative unknown.

He has tried sporadically with players like Engvall and Rielly, but for the most part he targets expensive players in their late 20s with a track record of success. Which is why we have an expensive and underwhelming bottom 6, with not enough cap to improve our top 6.

Not nearly as important as having players like Barkov, Tkachuk, Reinhart, Ekblad, etc. I'm all for having as deep a team as possible, but if you want to be a contender you need TOP END talent - Not a bunch of quality role players.

And in fact often the reason why role players like Rodrigues and Forsling have success in the playoffs each season is because their opponents are spending most of their energy shutting down the top lines leaving the role players matched up against lesser defensemen/defensive forwards.

Really amazing around here how excited some get because guys like Fasching or MacLean have a couple of good games - As if they are really going to be difference makers in the long run. If you want to win a Cup then you need legit top end/elite talent. That should be the sole focus first because you're going nowhere without a very talented core - More talented than what the Isles have now.

 

[MJF]

Cheapest option is Gauthier.

Does he get out of Roy's Chateau Bow Wow this fall?

 

[Mr Misunderstood]

Does he get out of Roy's Chateau Bow Wow this fall?

I can't remember at this point, wasn't be demoted before Roy was HC?

 

[MJF]

I can't remember at this point, wasn't be demoted before Roy was HC?

No. He lasted one or two games with Roy and was banished. IIRC Roy called him out about playing the game the way he wanted him to play.

 

[leeroggy]

if Lou traded Bailey, then Anders is not safe at all

The longer these playoffs go, the more I just wish the islanders can get a guy like Rodrigues or Forsling

Are you willing to pay Forsling the 8-yr, $5,750,000 per year contract he just signed?

A guy like Forsling . . . and he was a waiver claim from the Black Hawks

 

[leeroggy]

Lou treasures guys like Lee, so probably not.

Rodrigues and Forsling are the types of players you need to make long playoff runs and be consistent contenders. These players are diamonds in the rough. I've long been critical of LL because he doesn't seem to have the ability or the interest to target such players. He is heavy handed. He likes expensive, known commodities. He doesn't have a nuanced approach to adding players. For instance, he's much more likely to spend premium assets and cap space on a guy like JGP than to sign an Evan Rodrigues, a relative unknown.

He has tried sporadically with players like Engvall and Rielly, but for the most part he targets expensive players in their late 20s with a track record of success. Which is why we have an expensive and underwhelming bottom 6, with not enough cap to improve our top 6.

Forsling was a waiver claim 4 years ago at age 23. He had shown nothing more than potential 3rd-pair after going for 3G/6A, -9 in 43 games. He was a 5th round pick in 2014.

Diamond in the rough? You'd have to be a genius to think he'd turn into this.

The revisionist history here astonishes at times . . .

 

[Throttle]

Forsling was a waiver claim 4 years ago at age 23. He had shown nothing more than potential 3rd-pair after going for 3G/6A, -9 in 43 games. He was a 5th round pick in 2014.

Diamond in the rough? You'd have to be a genius to think he'd turn into this.

The revisionist history here astonishes at times . . .

Diamonds in the rough, well, are diamonds in the rough, not jewels in the open…

Good for any team that picks up a guy and it works out better for the player/team. It just happens and the rest of the 30 teams don’t need to catch flack for ‘not being the one.’

 

[crashthenet]

Are you willing to pay Forsling the 8-yr, $5,750,000 per year contract he just signed?

A guy like Forsling . . . and he was a waiver claim from the Black Hawks

He actually was traded from the Hawks for DeHaan. Canes waived him out of the AHL. I watch a fair amount of Hawks games. Bowman was an idiot. Dumped Jokiharju for Nyalnder the next year I think. Both guys certainly looked like NHL defenseman.

 

[doublechili]

I've long been critical of LL because he doesn't seem to have the ability or the interest to target such players. He is heavy handed. He likes expensive, known commodities. He doesn't have a nuanced approach to adding players.

I just had a horrible thought. All these years on this board it's just been me and one other guy pretending to be the rest of the posters.

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

I just had a horrible thought. All these years on this board it's just been me and one other guy pretending to be the rest of the posters.

This is deep, DC.

Pretty doggone deep.

 

[seabass45]

He actually was traded from the Hawks for DeHaan. Canes waived him out of the AHL. I watch a fair amount of Hawks games. Bowman was an idiot. Dumped Jokiharju for Nyalnder the next year I think. Both guys certainly looked like NHL defenseman.

And I'm guessing Florida (who I think was ahead of us in the waiver order) picked up Forsling because Quenneville knew him from Chicago. They also had an immediate need at LD and Forsling was in the lineup on day one. Our entire defense was locked in at the time and there were hopes that eventually one or both of Salo/Aho would make the leap.

 

[LeapOnOver]

if Lou traded Bailey, then Anders is not safe at all

The longer these playoffs go, the more I just wish the islanders can get a guy like Rodrigues or Forsling

Doubtful. Bailey wasn't a captain, and had been scratched by Trots quite often. That took awhile to happen and none of those have even started for Lee.

 

[LeapOnOver]

Not nearly as important as having players like Barkov, Tkachuk, Reinhart, Ekblad, etc. I'm all for having as deep a team as possible, but if you want to be a contender you need TOP END talent - Not a bunch of quality role players.

And in fact often the reason why role players like Rodrigues and Forsling have success in the playoffs each season is because their opponents are spending most of their energy shutting down the top lines leaving the role players matched up against lesser defensemen/defensive forwards.

Really amazing around here how excited some get because guys like Fasching or MacLean have a couple of good games - As if they are really going to be difference makers in the long run. If you want to win a Cup then you need legit top end/elite talent. That should be the sole focus first because you're going nowhere without a very talented core - More talented than what the Isles have now.

I don't disagree with you, but we are talking about 3rd and 4th line upgrades, not because we think they are more important, but because the UFA class is crappy and we have no assets good enough to acquire anybody of the caliber of those top players, so people aren't really wasting time talking about it.

 

[seafoam]

• Amadio and Carrier hitting the market
• Perfetti out of WPG might be available
• Kaliev out of LA will be traded

All guys I have interest in in some capacity

https://x.com/i/web/status/1795943140232237167

 

[Isles72]

I just had a horrible thought. All these years on this board it's just been me and one other guy pretending to be the rest of the posters.

I have that thought sometimes except in terms of fantasy hockey . Am I playing v.s Bots ?

 

[JPIsles18]

Not nearly as important as having players like Barkov, Tkachuk, Reinhart, Ekblad, etc. I'm all for having as deep a team as possible, but if you want to be a contender you need TOP END talent - Not a bunch of quality role players.

And in fact often the reason why role players like Rodrigues and Forsling have success in the playoffs each season is because their opponents are spending most of their energy shutting down the top lines leaving the role players matched up against lesser defensemen/defensive forwards.

Really amazing around here how excited some get because guys like Fasching or MacLean have a couple of good games - As if they are really going to be difference makers in the long run. If you want to win a Cup then you need legit top end/elite talent. That should be the sole focus first because you're going nowhere without a very talented core - More talented than what the Isles have now.

That's really missing the point. The goal is to be in position to acquire players that you mentioned. Unless you're lucky enough to draft the players you mention, you need the cap space and usually the assets to acquire them. This is done by maximizing value. Our third line currently costs 15 mil in cap space. Our 4th line cost 6.5 when Zeeker is on it. It shouldn't cost that much to produce mediocre results.

The Florida case is an interesting one. Barkov and Ekblad were drafted. Some were acquired because of either good scouting involving undervalued players (Forsling, Verhaeghe). Others were via trade because they had desirable assets and then the cap space to sign player (Tkachuk).

So yes, we can use the oversimplified "you need elite talent" argument. But that's obvious. The more important discuss is how you get there. One way is having a Maclean play bottom 6 minutes at league minimum or an ELC. In a cap world scouting matters. Getting cheap production matters. Isles are in the habit of overpaying at pretty much every position. That's less dollars to go to "elite" players. The other way to do this is the Stars way. Draft Heiskenen, Robertson, Johnston , Oettinger and then it doesn't matter how many crappy players you overpay to play bottom 6.

 

[periferal]

I don't disagree with you, but we are talking about 3rd and 4th line upgrades, not because we think they are more important, but because the UFA class is crappy and we have no assets good enough to acquire anybody of the caliber of those top players, so people aren't really wasting time talking about it.

So you need elite players to win a Cup, but there's no way for the Isles to sign or trade for any this offseason...So we should just focus on acquiring players that will keep this team average for years...

What are we even doing here? Do fans want to win or stick their head in the sane and tolerate mediocrity?

 

[CupHolders]

I just had a horrible thought. All these years on this board it's just been me and one other guy pretending to be the rest of the posters.

Worse than that bro… I’m not even another guy. I am an A.I. !!!!!

 

[impaaaaaact]

So you need elite players to win a Cup, but there's no way for the Isles to sign or trade for any this offseason...So we should just focus on acquiring players that will keep this team average for years...

What are we even doing here? Do fans want to win or stick their head in the sane and tolerate mediocrity?

So what, we tank for three or four years to hope we hit in the draft so that we can compete in 6? I personally appreciate watching the team win from time to time. I'd rather hope to go on a blues like run now than sell out for a bunch of lotto tickets.

 

[periferal]

That's really missing the point. The goal is to be in position to acquire players that you mentioned. Unless you're lucky enough to draft the players you mention, you need the cap space and usually the assets to acquire them. This is done by maximizing value. Our third line currently costs 15 mil in cap space. Our 4th line cost 6.5 when Zeeker is on it. It shouldn't cost that much to produce mediocre results.

The Florida case is an interesting one. Barkov and Ekblad were drafted. Some were acquired because of either good scouting involving undervalued players (Forsling, Verhaeghe). Others were via trade because they had desirable assets and then the cap space to sign player (Tkachuk).

So yes, we can use the oversimplified "you need elite talent" argument. But that's obvious. The more important discuss is how you get there. One way is having a Maclean play bottom 6 minutes at league minimum or an ELC. In a cap world scouting matters. Getting cheap production matters. Isles are in the habit of overpaying at pretty much every position. That's less dollars to go to "elite" players. The other way to do this is the Stars way. Draft Heiskenen, Robertson, Johnston , Oettinger and then it doesn't matter how many crappy players you overpay to play bottom 6.

So your argument is that the bottom of your roster should be earning close to league minimum, but yet as you also mention...The current bottom 6 is overpaid to produce "mediocre results." So we have a GM who is constructing a roster exactly the opposite of what you think should be done.

And the "Isles aren't in the habit overpaying at pretty much every position" - Lou is. Even Snow was better at signing value deals.

And even having limited picks, the Isles have been pretty bad at drafting under Lou. Maybe that's why he keeps dealing picks away - So he doesn't have to embarrass himself by actually using them.

 

[Osakahaus]

And the "Isles aren't in the habit overpaying at pretty much every position" - Lou is. Even Snow was better at signing value deals.

This is some insane revisionist history when Snow signed Chimera and he was underwhelming as can be

 

[periferal]

So what, we tank for three or four years to hope we hit in the draft so that we can compete in 6? I personally appreciate watching the team win from time to time. I'd rather hope to go on a blues like run now than sell out for a bunch of lotto tickets.

That's cool. Totally your right. For me I'm not in it to see the team win "from time to time." That's basically what they've been doing the past 2 years and it's frustratingly unsatisfying.

All I want is a Cup and when you look at basically every Cup winner/contender, much less dynasty, over the past 20 years and essentially every one of those franchises did "tank for 3-4 years" to get those high picks which got elite players. To wit...

• Penguins - Fleury, Crosby, Malkin, Staal
• Kings - Kopitar, Doughty, Brown, Schenn (led to Richards)
• Blackhawks - Toews, Kane, Seabrook
• Lightning - Stamkos, Hedman, Drouin (led to Sergachev)
• Avalanche - MacKinnon, Rantonen, Makar, Landeskog
• Oilers - McDavid, Draisaitl, Nugent-Hopkins, Nurse
• Panthers - Barkov, Ekblad, Huberdeau (led to Tkachuk)

And this doesn't include so many other stellar trades/picks by these clubs. It's obvious to anyone paying attention that while nothing is 100% in life, there is certainly a pattern to how to build a juggernaut in today's NHL. I can promise you that hoping the Isles win a Cup in the next 3-5 years with the way they're built and the moves the GM is making is much more of a "lotto ticket" than drafting a few guys in the top 10 picks and building from there.

This is some insane revisionist history when Snow signed Chimera and he was underwhelming as can be

Feel free to analyze Snow's moves in detail, but it's more a comment about Lou's contracts.

 

[seafoam]

This is some insane revisionist history when Snow signed Chimera and he was underwhelming as can be

When you can't attract talent, you either sign over-the-hill veterans or guarantee fringe players term in exchange for AAV.

Some work out and some don't, but I think periferal is wearing rose tinted glasses. Did he forget about Filppula, Lehner, Brassard, Chara, Parise?

 

[Osakahaus]

When you can't attract talent, you either sign over-the-hill veterans or guarantee fringe players term in exchange for AAV.

Some work out and some don't, but I think periferal is wearing rose tinted glasses. Did he forget about Filppula, Lehner, Brassard, Chara, Parise?

Maybe im not being as insane but most of Lou's picks as GM, despite being small, have worked well in our favor. I feel like Filppula and Brass were amazing depth guys, Parise was excellent, and both Lehner and Varly have been quality goalies for the organization. Would I wish he did more? Absolutely. But I think the choices he makes fits the teams philosophies as a result.

 

[MJF]

So what, we tank for three or four years to hope we hit in the draft so that we can compete in 6? I personally appreciate watching the team win from time to time. I'd rather hope to go on a blues like run now than sell out for a bunch of lotto tickets.

Time to time? Those intervals are getting farther apart lately.

Hoping and praying for a miracle Blues run just doesn't get it done for me after the last 3 years. If this was poker I'd throw my cards in and draw 4 new ones.