Roster/Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2023-24: Hotel California

[Chapin Landvogt]

You're a highly respected poster and you should be because you always maintain a civil tone and you make solid arguments for your point of view but spare us the "we're sincere" if we see it this way but anyone who sees it differently isn't, particularly on subjective matters.

Thank you, but yep, actually, I can't spare you the need for sincerity here either.

The post you lengthily responded to was my response to this:

My response was in no way, shape, or form a grading of Lou's entire tenure here. Nor some kind of simping for him.

I stand by every word I wrote in response to THIS specific post above, in which the claim is made that the ECF reached was solely Trotz' doing and since no real changes were made to a roster Snow compiled, that the 2 ECFs were not a culmination of everything Lou did or didn't do as the GM.

So, what I wrote was not merely "my opinion". The statement above is an opinion. And it's an unverifiable one that completely overlooks what I pointed out in my response.

Year 1= Great year, surprise the NHL, make the playoffs, sweep a round, then get swept.
Year 2= Decline from year 1, lose 7 in a row during the height of the playoff race to fall out of a playoff spot and then Covid hits. Luck into playoffs because of Covid and make the most of it but still ultimately lose.
Year 3= Improve from previous year and make unusual playoffs and make the most of it. Just as that juggernaut MTL did to make it even further than the Isles. It was great and entertaining but not proof of team greatness in any way shape or form. Nonetheless, Lou doubles down on thinking team is great. Signs a bunch of ill-advised contracts.

What I'm seeing here are thoughts with the intent of downplaying what was achieved. And there are some unprovable semantics in that respect.

Does anything you chose to write about in this passage deny any of these facts?:
Year 1 = Isles make it to the 2nd round of the playoffs a season after missing the playoffs and losing the team's captain without any comparable replacement.
Year 2 = Isles make it to the Conference Final and bow out to the eventual SC champs in 6 games.
Year 3 = Isles make it to the Conference Final and bow out to the eventual SC champs in 7 games.

None of it does. Everything that took place - positive and negative, no matter what trends, circumstances, minor moves, lack of moves, bounces of luck or whatever that were involved - all culminated in these hard, cold results.

That is what took place.

This is what was achieved.

And it can't be taken away or denied. Not from the players. Not from the coaching staff. And not from management.

People want to say that LL brought respectability and maybe, but that was really about ownership with deep pockets and commitment, not Lamoriello.

I fear this is a tad bit of a disingenuous take as well. It's certainly not one I've ever heard from the many hockey pundits out there when they talk about this team's culture and mode of operation.

Quite the opposite.

When it comes to recent history, Lou is mentioned every time I've heard a hockey person talk about the "Islanders" and "respectability" in the same breath.

Lamoriello has been average at best and will leave this franchise from a player personnel standpoint worse than he found it with no tremendous accomplishments on the ice that weren't Covid aided. The years that weren't, again, you tell me?

We will will never know about that bolded part. And as a fan, I don't give a crap. I loved what this team did and it provided me with many joyous moments - after soooo many years of not experiencing such moments. It felt great!

I'm not sure how much time you spend in this forum. I think the regular posters would know that I'm hardly against a change in direction. Last season's results already told me it was time.

I just think that wishing for a different managerial direction in the here and now certainly doesn't mean people have to downplay the results and achievements of the first three seasons of Lou's tenure as Isles GM.

The history books certainly won't.

 

[DerekKingSnipes]

I agree. I don't see Lou trading Nelson for picks or anything like that. If/when a rebuild comes, it will be without Lou.

Maybe this is it for Lou? Rosners thought about Roy moving to GM the other day, maybe there is something to it. I think it’s pretty obvious change is needed and they need to get younger and faster. I’m not for or against moving Nelson as I can see argument for both. I doubt he’s traded, I think it’s better chance he is the top line LW next year if this experiment works. It’s easier to get a second line center than a top line winger.

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

Wasn't really making it about Snow was just saying , If Snow did remain as GM and Trotz signed on under Snow, the million dollar question is would we have made the ECF with Trotz or not ?

If it did happen, I would be betting yes but we will never now and is why I think Trotz was the primary reason for success. Too bad Snow wasn't smart enough to figure out a good coach goes a long way

Well, I think the concensus here is that Trotz would never have considered working for the Islanders had Lou not become the GM and brought him in. The reputation and respect Lou enjoyed in the hockey world made it possible.

Do we know for sure?

We'll never know.

But we do know that Lou was hired and within weeks of winning the Cup with Washington, Trotz was brought in.

That happened.

Conjecture:
I think everyone who has been around the hockey block knows that a coach the caliber of a Trotz wasn't going near a Snow-managed Islanders with a 10-foot pole.

I think people here are giving Lou too much crap but also are giving him too much credit!

You're not alone.

But we know what happened during his first three seasons here and thus, we know that everything that took place, no matter what it was, ultimately culminated in those results. And he was the GM.

Glad we got to experience all that.

IMO, the roster was always flawed but the stars aligned for a few years which unfortunately caused us to mortgage what we need now, a few new Dobson's and Barzals to replace the older group

I wouldn't use the word mortgage in that manner. That would kind of indicate that we're close to rock bottom and now don't have anything to build on.

There's still plenty to build on.

Remaining mediocre or slightly less than that has cost us perhaps different avenues to what might have meant more concrete and perhaps ultimately sustainable success.

Lou picked the horses he wanted to bet on. Heck, he continued to add horses to the stable. That needs to be admitted too.

The question for management now is if they're ready to make the decision on having someone else pick the horses to bet on.

 

[Tres Peleches]

Just an FYI, if you give Trotz all the credit for getting the Isles to the ECF, Lou needs to get credit for hiring him and being the only reason he came to the Island in the first place

Thank you for attending my TED talk

 

[Torrey Redux]

Thank you, but yep, actually, I can't spare you the need for sincerity here either.

The post you lengthily responded to was my response to this:
View attachment 825656

My response was in no way, shape, or form a grading of Lou's entire tenure here. Nor some kind of simping for him.

I stand by every word I wrote in response to THIS specific post above, in which the claim is made that the ECF reached was solely Trotz' doing and since no real changes were made to a roster Snow compiled, that the 2 ECFs were not a culmination of everything Lou did or didn't do as the GM.

So, what I wrote was not merely "my opinion". The statement above is an opinion. And it's an unverifiable one that completely overlooks what I pointed out in my response.



What I'm seeing here are thoughts with the intent of downplaying what was achieved. And there are some unprovable semantics in that respect.

Does anything you chose to write about in this passage deny any of these facts?:
Year 1 = Isles make it to the 2nd round of the playoffs a season after missing the playoffs and losing the team's captain without any comparable replacement.
Year 2 = Isles make it to the Conference Final and bow out to the eventual SC champs in 6 games.
Year 3 = Isles make it to the Conference Final and bow out to the eventual SC champs in 7 games.

None of it does. Everything that took place - positive and negative, no matter what trends, circumstances, minor moves, lack of moves, bounces of luck or whatever that were involved - all culminated in these hard, cold results.

That is what took place.

This is what was achieved.

And it can't be taken away or denied. Not from the playes. Not from the coaching staff. And not from management.



I fear this is a tad bit of a disingenuous take as well. It's certainly not one I've ever heard from the many hockey pundits out there when they talk about this team's culture and mode of operation.

Quite the opposite.

When it comes to recent history, Lou is mentioned every time I've heard a hockey person talk about the "Islanders" and "respectability" in the same breath.



We will will never know about that bolded part. And as a fan, I don't give a crap. I loved what this team did and it provided me with many joyous moments - after soooo many years of not experiencing such moments. It felt great!

I'm not sure how much time you spend in this forum. I think the regular posters would know that I'm hardly against a change in direction. Last season's results already told me it was time.

I just think that wishing for a different managerial direction in the here and now certainly doesn't mean people have to downplay the results and achievements of the first three seasons of Lou's tenure as Isles GM.

The history books certainly won't.

You have missed the point. Everyone trying to take me to task and convince of how wrong I am have missed the point. Again. The entirety of my argument is not now nor has it ever been that those events weren't "real", they were real in the context of how they came to be and that is how the history books will record them, as real. No argument. (Of course, I don't know what everyone is so excited about anyway, we went to the semis twice and lost both times - that's nice - but it represented, as we now know, and even if you cling to the notion that there was nothing different about the playoffs in those years, the absolute apex of our ability.)

But now here we are less than three years later and every wants Lou gone. Why does everyone want Lou gone? Because we're not good, because we have a bunch of bad contracts and because our farm system sucks. So how did such a precipitous fall occur when less than three years ago everyone here had as on the short list of true contenders and the core of our roster is essentially the same? I'll tell you why, because there wasn't really a fall, this is the team, a team that was never really a true contender. It was good, and overachieved, but was it among the elite? No way. So now everyone's dissatisfied with Lou for bringing back the team that so many thought was great and for spending draft and asset capital to add to it in the hope that that would get them over the top. That was never going to happen.

 

[WangMustGo]

Just an FYI, if you give Trotz all the credit for getting the Isles to the ECF, Lou needs to get credit for hiring him and being the only reason he came to the Island in the first place

Thank you for attending my TED talk

Lou had his time here, and I will always appreciate him for righting the ship. This team was the laughing stock of the league. Having said that, his time is up. This team needs new eyes and ideas. We cannot keep trading away the farm. This team needs to shed some of the older players and build around the core of Barzal, Horvat, Sorokin, Dobson, Romanov, and Pulock. In 2 years we can be back in the playoffs with a healthy farm system and clear of most of the deadweight contracts.

 

[Zeeker]

Judging from today’s conversation, this is gonna be a fun next three to seven years of our HFIsles lives

 

[PJGooch]

The bubble playoffs and the 2021 run were one of the few bright spots for me during the pandemic. I thought the NHL did an awesome job with those tournaments and it really helped me keep my sanity while most of the world was shut down. Fond memories of those playoff runs.

How dare you.

 

[periferal]

Well, I think the concensus here is that Trotz would never have considered working for the Islanders had Lou not become the GM and brought him in. The reputation and respect Lou enjoyed in the hockey world made it possible.

Do we know for sure?

We'll never know.

But we do know that Lou was hired and within weeks of winning the Cup with Washington, Trotz was brought in.

That happened.

Conjecture:
I think everyone who has been around the hockey block knows that a coach the caliber of a Trotz wasn't going near a Snow-managed Islanders with a 10-foot pole.

Oh there's no question that Trotz isn't coming here to work for any combination of wang/snow. That said people aren't "carrying the one" here in that Malkin is the one that brought Lou in. So if that's the case it was Malkin that truly changed the culture around here...And I'm willing to bet that if Malkin could bring Lou here he could've brought Trotz in anyway even if another GM was hired.

And let us not forget that when Trotz was let go from Washington the Isles had the only head coach opening in the NHL. If he wanted to coach in 18-19 he had to take the Isles job. That is a notable factor.

No doubt none of us ultimately know if Trotz came here due to Lou or if he was coming anyway, but if we're going to play the conjecture game, stands to reason that Malkin could've lured him here regardless given all he's accomplished in a short period of time and that the Isles were the only game in town.

That said I think the bigger picture is that Trotz is now gone, and as a result I believe so too are this roster's chances at a Cup. Lou may deserve credit for changing a lot of the culture around here, but once again it's time for Malkin to step up and choose a new GM to fix this team and hopefully open up a new Cup window in the next few years.

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

Oh there's no question that Trotz isn't coming here to work for any combination of wang/snow. That said people aren't "carrying the one" here in that Malkin is the one that brought Lou in. So if that's the case it was Malkin that truly changed the culture around here...And I'm willing to bet that if Malkin could bring Lou here he could've brought Trotz in anyway even if another GM was hired. And let us not forget that when Trotz was let go from Washington the Isles had the only head coach opening in the NHL. If he wanted to coach in 18-19 he had to take the Isles job. That is a notable factor.

Granted, it's 2:15 am in the morning here for me, but I don't really see this at all, to be real honest.

Viewed from the outside, Malkin is not a "hockey guy". He's also one of the most hands-off owners I think I've ever witnessed. We don't hear a thing about what he thinks or how involved he is.

Sure, the owners have gotta decide on a GM, but for all intents and purposes, Lou was brought in and left to do the hockey work. Other than get the ok on the dollar amounts, he seems to have had free reign from day 1.

I don't think there's any indication whatsoever that Malkin himself would have taken on the task of going out and searching for the team's next coach. When was the last time an owner went out an did that?

Maybe there are examples.

Also, Lou brought Trotz in like weeks after the Cup was won. The offseason had just started.

He was way ahead of the game. He lured him in before anyone else had noticed Trotz would even be available, right. It kind of came outta nowhere.

There certainly was no statement out of DC at that point that they weren't (going to be able) to continue working with him. In the aftermath, it sounded like Lou went straight in and offered him a contract that Washington had no desire to match. Like boom. When no-one was suspecting it.

I don't really get a take that seems to be insuating that Trotz had no choice but to take this job.

Or am I misunderstanding you here?

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

You have missed the point. Everyone trying to take me to task and convince of how wrong I am have missed the point. Again.

I'm not even sure I knew about you as a poster (don't mean that as an offense) until you responded to my post, addressing it in a manner that I felt was a divergent tangent.

I wasn't sure about the motivation behind that, but now it seems like you're simply looking for a pult to preach from more than anything else.

Doesn't sound like a perogative that allows you to sleep well at night, but for each their own.

 

[Strickland]

Oh there's no question that Trotz isn't coming here to work for any combination of wang/snow. That said people aren't "carrying the one" here in that Malkin is the one that brought Lou in. So if that's the case it was Malkin that truly changed the culture around here...And I'm willing to bet that if Malkin could bring Lou here he could've brought Trotz in anyway even if another GM was hired.

And let us not forget that when Trotz was let go from Washington the Isles had the only head coach opening in the NHL. If he wanted to coach in 18-19 he had to take the Isles job. That is a notable factor.

No doubt none of us ultimately know if Trotz came here due to Lou or if he was coming anyway, but if we're going to play the conjecture game, stands to reason that Malkin could've lured him here regardless given all he's accomplished in a short period of time and that the Isles were the only game in town.

That said I think the bigger picture is that Trotz is now gone, and as a result I believe so too are this roster's chances at a Cup. Lou may deserve credit for changing a lot of the culture around here, but once again it's time for Malkin to step up and choose a new GM to fix this team and hopefully open up a new Cup window in the next few years.

Yup. Trotz won a Cup in Washington and immediately left because they wouldn't pay him what he wanted. at that point, the Isles were the only team in the league with a vacancy. Lou was part of why he came, but the $20 million contract he got spoke volumes to Trotz. And had Lou not been the GM and Snow offered him that $20 million, does he turn it down? Considering it's probably the entirety of what he had made in his career to that point?

Snow stunk. But $20 million for an NHL coach covers a lot of odor, yknow?

 

[PK Cronin]

You have missed the point. Everyone trying to take me to task and convince of how wrong I am have missed the point. Again. The entirety of my argument is not now nor has it ever been that those events weren't "real", they were real in the context of how they came to be and that is how the history books will record them, as real. No argument. (Of course, I don't know what everyone is so excited about anyway, we went to the semis twice and lost both times - that's nice - but it represented, as we now know, and even if you cling to the notion that there was nothing different about the playoffs in those years, the absolute apex of our ability.)

But now here we are less than three years later and every wants Lou gone. Why does everyone want Lou gone? Because we're not good, because we have a bunch of bad contracts and because our farm system sucks. So how did such a precipitous fall occur when less than three years ago everyone here had as on the short list of true contenders and the core of our roster is essentially the same? I'll tell you why, because there wasn't really a fall, this is the team, a team that was never really a true contender. It was good, and overachieved, but was it among the elite? No way. So now everyone's dissatisfied with Lou for bringing back the team that so many thought was great and for spending draft and asset capital to add to it in the hope that that would get them over the top. That was never going to happen.

Time doesn't stand still. Why didn't the Islanders win the cup in '84 the way they had in '83 with pretty much the same team? Why didn't Tampa Bay continue their dominance? Why did Colorado get knocked out by Seattle last year after winning the cup the previous year?

Most teams have pretty much the same roster from year to year with minor changes here and there. Players get older, some players are moved out, coaches get stale, GMs make bad trades or signings, they all play a factor into teams fading.

Take a look at the Islanders roster today compared to then.

Lee is now 33, Nelson is 32, Pageau is 31, Palmieri is 33, Cizikas is 32, Clutterbuck is 36, Martin is 34, Varlamov is 35...that's eight key players during those runs on the wrong side of 30, all with more mileage and wear and tear. It's expected that they'd dip in production. Also worth noting that two other key pieces during those runs in Bailey and Eberle are 34 and 33 too, so the core was already old by the time those runs happened. The window was short for that group and it's the replacement (or lack of) of these players that has been the problem and not that the team was really this bad all along.

 

[Strickland]

That was literally the hardest part.

All indications out of Sorokin's camp were that he wasn't coming over as things were at the time of Snow's departure.

The whole signing of Varly, with whom Sorokin shared an agent, was all part of the plan. It was puzzle that Lou had to orchestrate. Absolutely no guarantee anyone else could have done it.

This was actually one of Lou's biggest accomplishments as this team's GM.

***
And no-one should underestimate what Lou's reputation is among Russian players and their agents. He was one of the first to bring in the old stars after the fall of the wall (Fetisov and Kasatonov), constantly brought in prospects from Russia, and then even traded for and gave Kovalchuk a contract for the ages. He's basically their favorite NHL GM over there.

Sorokin, for all the rumored love of Lou, came over EXACTLY at the moment when he could burn a year off his ELC, become an immediate RFA and all but assure that he'd never spend a minute in the AHL and never make rookie money. Lou was GM for two years before he got Sorokin here. If, as you say, Lou's reputation was vital to securing Ilya's services, why did it take two whole years for him to come over?

The puzzle wasn't Lou's to put together, it was Sorokin's agent. And they did a masterful job. Sorokin made millions in Russia and significantly more here. And never had to ride a single bus.

 

[PK Cronin]

Sorokin, for all the rumored love of Lou, came over EXACTLY at the moment when he could burn a year off his ELC, become an immediate RFA and all but assure that he'd never spend a minute in the AHL and never make rookie money. Lou was GM for two years before he got Sorokin here. If, as you say, Lou's reputation was vital to securing Ilya's services, why did it take two whole years for him to come over?

The puzzle wasn't Lou's to put together, it was Sorokin's agent. And they did a masterful job. Sorokin made millions in Russia and significantly more here. And never had to ride a single bus.

Sorokin signed an extension in the KHL while Snow was the GM and the rumblings were that he wasn't going to come over if Snow remained the GM (I'm pretty sure Staple reported this).

 

[Strickland]

Sorokin signed an extension in the KHL while Snow was the GM and the rumblings were that he wasn't going to come over if Snow remained the GM (I'm pretty sure Staple reported this).

And that contract just coincidently ends when he's only got one year of team control left, is an immediate RFA and whose leverage will all but assure he never spends a moment in the AHL? but it's all because of Snow? Right. Sure.

Sometimes the truth is self evident. Sorokin wasn't going to come here a moment before it made financial sense for him to. Just like Igor.

 

[PK Cronin]

And that contract just coincidently ends when he's only got one year of team control left, is an immediate RFA and whose leverage will all but assure he never spends a moment in the AHL? but it's all because of Snow? Right. Sure.

Sometimes the truth is self evident. Sorokin wasn't going to come here a moment before it made financial sense for him to. Just like Igor.

You don't think it's possible that he signed that deal for precisely the reason you're saying, while also buying time for Snow to be replaced? The ideas aren't mutually exclusive.

 

[Strickland]

You don't think it's possible that he signed that deal for precisely the reason you're saying, while also buying time for Snow to be replaced? The ideas aren't mutually exclusive.

You think a 22/23 year old Russian whose only exposure to the organization was a four day trip for a prospect camp, wanted the GM fired?

Again, if that's what you wanna believe, by all means, believe it. But again, the way more obvious reasons for why he signed when he signed are pretty much all money related. Sorokin made millions playing in Russia and will have been paid like $80-85 million from the Isles, when all is said and done, without playing a SINGLE AHL game. As a GOALIE.

I don't think Snow had anything to do with it.

 

[periferal]

Granted, it's 2:15 am in the morning here for me, but I don't really see this at all, to be real honest.

Viewed from the outside, Malkin is not a "hockey guy". He's also one of the most hands-off owners I think I've ever witnessed. We don't hear a thing about what he thinks or how involved he is.

Sure, the owners have gotta decide on a GM, but for all intents and purposes, Lou was brought in and left to do the hockey work. Other than get the ok on the dollar amounts, he seems to have had free reign from day 1.

I don't think there's any indication whatsoever that Malkin himself would have taken on the task of going out and searching for the team's next coach. When was the last time an owner went out an did that?

Maybe there are examples.

Also, Lou brought Trotz in like weeks after the Cup was won. The offseason had just started.

He was way ahead of the game. He lured him in before anyone else had noticed Trotz would even be available, right. It kind of came outta nowhere.

There certainly was no statement out of DC at that point that they weren't (going to be able) to continue working with him. In the aftermath, it sounded like Lou went straight in and offered him a contract that Washington had no desire to match. Like boom. When no-one was suspecting it.

I don't really get a take that seems to be insuating that Trotz had no choice but to take this job.

Or am I misunderstanding you here?

Since it's now past 315am where you are, I'll try to keep it simple. What I'm saying is...

1. I'm NOT saying that Malkin would have DIRECTLY brought Trotz here, but...It was his responsbility to hire a president/GM. So he did hire a GM that brought Trotz here. And I believe he could've hired another GM...Who could've also brought Trotz here.
2. Of course Trotz didn't HAVE to take the Isles job in 2018, but...It was the only job available, so his choice was coach the Isles or not work for a while waiting for another opening. We won't know for sure, but if he really wanted to work in 18-19 then that certainly would minimize the effect Lou (or anyone) had on coming here.

Yup. Trotz won a Cup in Washington and immediately left because they wouldn't pay him what he wanted. at that point, the Isles were the only team in the league with a vacancy. Lou was part of why he came, but the $20 million contract he got spoke volumes to Trotz. And had Lou not been the GM and Snow offered him that $20 million, does he turn it down? Considering it's probably the entirety of what he had made in his career to that point?

Snow stunk. But $20 million for an NHL coach covers a lot of odor, yknow?

Bingo. I'm upset with myself for not even bringing this up. Trotz would've just stayed with Washington had they met his asking price. The Isles did...And the rest is history.

There's certainly enough information we do have around the Trotz situation that it was getting $4,000,000 a year was the #1 factor in him taking the Isles job at the time. And I'd lob the credit for that 100% on Malkin because he'd have to approve that contract, and he did so prior to the revenues of UBS.

 

[PK Cronin]

You think a 22/23 year old Russian whose only exposure to the organization was a four day trip for a prospect camp, wanted the GM fired?

Again, if that's what you wanna believe, by all means, believe it. But again, the way more obvious reasons for why he signed when he signed are pretty much all money related. Sorokin made millions playing in Russia and will have been paid like $80-85 million from the Isles, when all is said and done, without playing a SINGLE AHL game. As a GOALIE.

I don't think Snow had anything to do with it.

You think Sorokin lives in a bubble and his agent never dealt with Snow or didn't know what was happening with the franchise at the time or that Sorokin never had any teammates who knew anything about Snow or the Islanders organization?

Money might've been the primary reason but what reason does Staple have to make up that Sorokin wasn't interested if Snow was as the helm? Sorokin could've continued to make millions in Russia if he wanted to so it's not as if signing that extension had any risk for him financially.

 

[crashthenet]

Showcase, baby, showcase!

You certainly notice him standing behind Stankoven after not hustling back on goal two.

 

[Strickland]

You think Sorokin lives in a bubble and his agent never dealt with Snow or didn't know what was happening with the franchise at the time or that Sorokin never had any teammates who knew anything about Snow or the Islanders organization?

Money might've been the primary reason but what reason does Staple have to make up that Sorokin wasn't interested if Snow was as the helm? Sorokin could've continued to make millions in Russia if he wanted to so it's not as if signing that extension had any risk for him financially.

And you think the reputation of Snow was that bad, that destructive, that a 23 year old Russian kid who had designs on the NHL, conspired to get him fired? Sorokin could have made millions in Russia, yes, but the NHL dwarfs the KHL in every conceivable way. Sorokin was always gonna come over because the KHL is not the best league in the world and it's not paying him $8 million per.

C'mon, man.

 

[periferal]

Want to know the difference between good GMing and bad GMing...? On July 1, 2023 two different GMs made two different signings...

• Pierre Engvall ($3,000,000 x 7): 6-11-17
• Matt Duchene ($3,000,000 x 1): 22-33-55

 

[PK Cronin]

And you think the reputation of Snow was that bad, that destructive, that a 23 year old Russian kid who had designs on the NHL, conspired to get him fired? Sorokin could have made millions in Russia, yes, but the NHL dwarfs the KHL in every conceivable way. Sorokin was always gonna come over because the KHL is not the best league in the world and it's not paying him $8 million per.

C'mon, man.

Conspired to get him fired? Nowhere did I say that. He just could opt not to come over given the state of the organization.

 

[Throttle]

Want to know the difference between good GMing and bad GMing...? On July 1, 2023 two different GMs made two different signings...

• Pierre Engvall ($3,000,000 x 7): 6-11-17
• Matt Duchene ($3,000,000 x 1): 22-33-55

Probably because Isles country is not the same country that player was looking for.