Roster/Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2023-24: Hotel California

[Strickland]

You said the front office and hockey ops were totally the same outside of one hire. You were wrong.

Nearly the entire coaching staff changed too.

Try again.

Who said anything about the coaching staff? When are they ever considered the front office?

And again, there’s 5 (FIVE) guys in the front office who aren’t scouts or special assignment guys. 4 of them (FOUR) have the same job now that they had under Snow: Chris Lamoriello, Kautonen, Klatt and Morrow. The only person Lou added was Pellegrini, who’s his long time cap and contracts guy.

That’s it. You said I was “totally wrong” so maybe next time spend more than two minutes looking into things.

 

[PJGooch]

Who said anything about the coaching staff? When are they ever considered the front office?

And again, there’s 5 (FIVE) guys in the front office who aren’t scouts or special assignment guys. 4 of them (FOUR) have the same job now that they had under Snow: Chris Lamoriello, Kautonen, Klatt and Morrow. The only person Lou added was Pellegrini, who’s his long time cap and contracts guy.

That’s it. You said I was “totally wrong” so maybe next time spend more than two minutes looking into things.

I don't know, Mitch Korn and Piero Greco are two guys who've been widely credited with much of the team's recent success, and both came on board in July 2018. Maybe they were manifested into existence by Garth Snow and not actually hired by Lamoriello. You tell me, you're the expert.

 

[periferal]

Duchene is so good your Trotz almighty bought his arse out one month into his job as GM.

YOU claimed Duchene was a LOSER.

Yes - Duchene is far from a team player and can be toxic, but that's the whole point - Even though I'm far from a Duchene fan I'd rather have him for 1 year at 3M than Mayfield/Engvall at 6.5M (even for 1 year). That's how bad those moves by Lou are. At minimum if the Stars weren't contenders they could've traded Duchene at the deadline for a nice asset(s). Try trading Engvall or Mayfield at any point during their contracts. The best case scenarioes for them is they will be bought out.

Whether it's insane loyalty and/or just bad GMing, Lou legit doesn't know how to let average talent walk and instead leverage the use of cap space to find top-end talent.

 

[Strickland]

I don't know, Mitch Korn and Piero Greco are two guys who've been widely credited with much of the team's recent success, and both came on board in July 2018. Maybe they were manifested into existence by Garth Snow and not actually hired by Lamoriello. You tell me, you're the expert.

Two goalie coaches; one who came with Trotz from Washington and one who came with Lou from Toronto, are part of the front office how?

Tell you what, since I was totally wrong, you tell me what members of the front office Snow had that changed since 2018.

 

[PJGooch]

Two goalie coaches; one who came with Trotz from Washington and one who came with Lou from Toronto, are part of the front office how?

Tell you what, since I was totally wrong, you tell me what members of the front office Snow had that changed since 2018.

You named scouting directors, and I named goalie coaches/directors. I'm not getting into a semantics argument. This all started when I brought up the culture of the front office and HOCKEY OPS (which includes directors, scouts, coaches) under Snow as it related to Trotz's hire, and you cannonballed in with the bold claim that everything was left status quo from Snow to Lamoriello, which is 100% false.

 

[SI]

https://x.com/isleswhitesuv/status/1762322492423561671?s=46&t=e53YMc8QvhbnNhejf7Ejcw

 

[gordie43]

This speculation is getting silly

I already have enough Jim Cramer in my life because of my profession, now this forum is also full of it!

None of us KNOW about Sorokin, Lou, etc.

One thing that is fact, from the 30 for 30 Of Miracles and Men, is that Lou has enormous credibility with Russian players due to how he helped Fetisov change the Russian attitude towards lifetime service to their system.

Lou's history with Russian players is long and deep.

Just to add a bit more to your post, this is where I think we got the Sorokin/Snow info from..

https://x.com/IgorEronko/status/991827721297776640?s=20

He’s always been a good source on Russian hockey, and I think Staple even reported but I no longer have an athletic sub to confirm.

 

[Strickland]

You named scouting directors, and I named goalie coaches/directors. I'm not getting into a semantics argument. This all started when I brought up the culture of the front office and HOCKEY OPS (which includes directors, scouts, coaches) under Snow as it related to Trotz's hire, and you cannonballed in with the bold claim that everything was left status quo from Snow to Lamoriello, which is 100% false.

This isn’t a semantics argument. You said I was “totally wrong” about the makeup of the front office under Snow and Lou. I’ve proved you wrong. Now you wanna argue that coaches make up a front office. They don’t. No one would ever consider them part of the front office.

Again, you said the front office under Snow was considered a clusterf*** around the league. Snow’s AGM, Director of Amateur Scouting, Head Amateur Scout and Director of Pro Scouting are all still in their jobs. That is incredibly unusual when a GM is fired and a new one brought in.

 

[PJGooch]

This isn’t a semantics argument. You said I was “totally wrong” about the makeup of the front office under Snow and Lou. I’ve proved you wrong. Now you wanna argue that coaches make up a front office. They don’t. No one would ever consider them part of the front office.

Again, you said the front office under Snow was considered a clusterf*** around the league. Snow’s AGM, Director of Amateur Scouting, Head Amateur Scout and Director of Pro Scouting are all still in their jobs. That is incredibly unusual when a GM is fired and a new one brought in.

I said front office and hockey ops in my original post. Scouts, directors, coaches ... all part of Hockey Ops. It's not that hard to understand. Read.

 

[Throttle]

Even if it’s the same people, sometimes the people are good, but the boss is bad (and the issue). Put in a better boss and those people can deliver (or not). If the latter, then it’s the people.

Amazing how people hated Snow and never gave the guy credit. Now, Lou does all these things for the betterment of the franchise and it’s ’well, it’s Snow’s team, Lou didn’t do anything.’

 

[Throttle]

Yes - Duchene is far from a team player and can be toxic, but that's the whole point - Even though I'm far from a Duchene fan I'd rather have him for 1 year at 3M than Mayfield/Engvall at 6.5M (even for 1 year). That's how bad those moves by Lou are. At minimum if the Stars weren't contenders they could've traded Duchene at the deadline for a nice asset(s). Try trading Engvall or Mayfield at any point during their contracts. The best case scenarioes for them is they will be bought out.

Whether it's insane loyalty and/or just bad GMing, Lou legit doesn't know how to let average talent walk and instead leverage the use of cap space to find top-end talent.

Yeah, that’s not the point. Holding a GM at fault for a player that has ZERO interest in playing for you is kinda absurd. Same with all the people screaming over Johnny Trademark - who signed with a perennial losing team in no man’s land without any pressure/media to deliver - that’s what the player wanted, no matter what you want or would do.

 

[Lame Lambert]

Even if it’s the same people, sometimes the people are good, but the boss is bad (and the issue). Put in a better boss and those people can deliver (or not). If the latter, then it’s the people.

Amazing how people hated Snow and never gave the guy credit. Now, Lou does all these things for the betterment of the franchise and it’s ’well, it’s Snow’s team, Lou didn’t do anything.’

All of your posts are predicated on taking the opinions of dozens, if not hundreds of people, and turning them into a single hive-mind opinion that you can poke fun at. It's getting real old.

 

[Throttle]

All of your posts are predicated on taking the opinions of dozens, if not hundreds of people, and turning them into a single hive-mind opinion that you can poke fun at. It's getting real old.

That’s a good theory.

 

[periferal]

Yeah, that’s not the point. Holding a GM at fault for a player that has ZERO interest in playing for you is kinda absurd. Same with all the people screaming over Johnny Trademark - who signed with a perennial losing team in no man’s land without any pressure/media to deliver - that’s what the player wanted, no matter what you want or would do.

So Lou convinced Trotz and Sorokin to come here, but...He couldn't convince Duchene. Got it.

And this really isn't about Duchene or any single player. It's about analyzing the moves your GM makes that are maximizing (or minimizing) the assets/cap you have to create the best team. I don't even like Duchene that much, but you know what I like less...Using $6,500,000 of cap space on Mayfield and Engvall.

Since you spend plenty of time attacking Barzal who actively helps this team create offense, would like to see you use some of your energy to criticize the players that actually deserve it.

So to summarize (and using your words), I'm holding the GM at fault for acquiring/resigning players that don't help this team win (and probably even hurt it). That's kinda the job of the GM and we should all be holding him accountable for failing at it (which he's doing).

 

[MJF]

All of your posts are predicated on taking the opinions of dozens, if not hundreds of people, and turning them into a single hive-mind opinion that you can poke fun at. It's getting real old.

He’s trolling. It’s obvious.

That’s a good theory.

Believable, and true.

 

[Doshell Propivo]

Ok’

Sorry it doesn't fit your narrative.

 

[Throttle]

Sorry it doesn't fit your narrative.

Fall in line…

So Lou convinced Trotz and Sorokin to come here, but...He couldn't convince Duchene. Got it.

And this really isn't about Duchene or any single player. It's about analyzing the moves your GM makes that are maximizing (or minimizing) the assets/cap you have to create the best team. I don't even like Duchene that much, but you know what I like less...Using $6,500,000 of cap space on Mayfield and Engvall.

Since you spend plenty of time attacking Barzal who actively helps this team create offense, would like to see you use some of your energy to criticize the players that actually deserve it.

So to summarize (and using your words), I'm holding the GM at fault for acquiring/resigning players that don't help this team win (and probably even hurt it). That's kinda the job of the GM and we should all be holding him accountable for failing at it (which he's doing).

Just like he couldn’t convince JT to stay, I guess.

 

[Strickland]

I said front office and hockey ops in my original post. Scouts, directors, coaches ... all part of Hockey Ops. It's not that hard to understand. Read.

When pressed you said “Mitch Korn and Piero Greco” and come on man. You didn’t even know who Kautonen was until a few hours ago.

Even if it’s the same people, sometimes the people are good, but the boss is bad (and the issue). Put in a better boss and those people can deliver (or not). If the latter, then it’s the people.

Amazing how people hated Snow and never gave the guy credit. Now, Lou does all these things for the betterment of the franchise and it’s ’well, it’s Snow’s team, Lou didn’t do anything.’

The bulk of the front office is still all Snow’s. For good and ill.

 

[MJF]

Sorry it doesn't fit your narrative.

That’s fine. You never do.

 

[doublechili]

This thread lately with the Sorokin, Snow, Duchene, Trotz, Malkin, etc. talk:

 

[PJGooch]

When pressed you said “Mitch Korn and Piero Greco” and come on man. You didn’t even know who Kautonen was until a few hours ago.



The bulk of the front office is still all Snow’s. For good and ill.

Haha OK dude. I'm done with your gibberish.

You get an A+ for your knowledge of the scouting department. Congrats!
You get an F in reading comprehension.

 

[Mr Misunderstood]

Even if it’s the same people, sometimes the people are good, but the boss is bad (and the issue). Put in a better boss and those people can deliver (or not). If the latter, then it’s the people.

Amazing how people hated Snow and never gave the guy credit. Now, Lou does all these things for the betterment of the franchise and it’s ’well, it’s Snow’s team, Lou didn’t do anything.’

Snow should get a lot of credit for late round drafting.

That's about it.

 

[Throttle]

Snow should get a lot of credit for late round drafting.

That's about it.

Well, and using ELC cap bonus to meet the cap floor. That was a Wang/Snow gem.

 

[Strickland]

Haha OK dude. I'm done with your gibberish.

You get an A+ for your knowledge of the scouting department. Congrats!
You get an F in reading comprehension.

Cool. Next time know what you’re talking about instead of calling someone “totally wrong” because you glanced at the Isles website for 30 seconds.

 

[Doshell Propivo]

That’s fine. You never do.

Thankfully.