Roster/Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2023-24: Hotel California

[Mr Misunderstood]

I'm sorry, but this is total horseshit. Winning the cup may be the ultimate determinant of success, but isn't the only one, and is less so seemingly every year as the league expands. For GMs (and for me), it's building a sustainably competitive team that doesn't just have a chance to make the playoffs, but has a chance to go deep year after year over a long period of time. That does not describe the Islanders. Dress it up any way you want, somehow the Isles have only had deep runs during the Covid years and haven't been a real threat at any other time during Lou's tenure. There are plenty of us for whom this is not recency bias but our POV from the day he arrived, that he was buying into a roster that was good, but was never that good and not worthy of the investments he was making.

Get out of here. At the TDL in 19-20 and 20-21 everyone here was clamoring to trade the farm and go all in because we could see the writing on the wall in the future that the core was aging. That meant trading 1sts and future in order to win now.

He did just that and it got them to the final 4. Twice. Only to be stopped by a dynasty (lower case d).

Now you have to live with the consequences. Great GM's can get out of the jam they've made for themselves, Good GM's can tread water, Bad GM's make it worse. The question is - which one is Lou at this stage of his career?

 

[MJF]

He was great for the team until he wasn't anymore and the wheels fell off.

Well it didn't take very long. And I never thought he was that great. He may have been a steadying influence for Noah Dobson but Greene didn't play his position very well. He made good reads, but too many times he just couldn't get to a spot.

 

[PK Cronin]

I'm sorry, but this is total horseshit.

Not really.

Winning the cup may be the ultimate determinant of success, but isn't the only one, and is less so seemingly every year as the league expands. For GMs (and for me), it's building a sustainably competitive team that doesn't just have a chance to make the playoffs, but has a chance to go deep year after year over a long period of time.

No argument here.

That does not describe the Islanders. Dress it up any way you want, somehow the Isles have only had deep runs during the Covid years and haven't been a real threat at any other time during Lou's tenure.

Four trips to the playoffs in five years isn't dressing it up, that's just a fact. What is or isn't a threat varies wildly person to person.

There are plenty of us for whom this is not recency bias but our POV from the day he arrived, that he was buying into a roster that was good, but was never that good and not worthy of the investments he was making.

The day you arrived here was already after the downturn so I have no idea what you were saying before that point.

How do you figure? This was a team coming off of an ECF and were being touted as a true Cup contender by the folks here. They had a long road trip to start and came out of it close to .500 with plenty of time and supposed a great team with lots of home games to come. They got screwed in a couple of games with sick players but in the end they missed the playoffs by 16 f**king pts. Who's picking and choosing again?

You very clearly are.

You're using COVID as the reason the Islanders had success in the ECF years but are diminishing the impact it had on the only year the team didn't make the playoffs.

 

[Doshell Propivo]

How do you figure? This was a team coming off of an ECF and were being touted as a true Cup contender by the folks here. They had a long road trip to start and came out of it close to .500 with plenty of time and supposed a great team with lots of home games to come. They got screwed in a couple of games with sick players but in the end they missed the playoffs by 16 f**king pts. Who's picking and choosing again?

You dismiss the playoff success (cuz COVID) but nary a word about COVID when it comes to the 21/22 season. "Couple of games with sick players." LOL nice try. How many games did they have to ice an AHL lineup when more than half the team was out?

I never bring up COVID as an excuse for that season UNLESS people start putting an asterisk next to the two ECF runs. Which you continue to do. I'll concede 21/22 as a legit, disappointing, playoff-less season if you're willing to concede the two seasons prior were legit playoff runs.

 

[PK Cronin]

Well it didn't take very long. And I never thought he was that great. He may have been a steadying influence for Noah Dobson but Greene didn't play his position very well. He made good reads, but too many times he just couldn't get to a spot.

I'm not comparing him to Makar or anything, but for a bottom pairing guy he was great positionally and really helped solidify that bottom pairing.

He was already old when he got here so it definitely didn't take long.

 

[Doshell Propivo]

Not really.



No argument here.



Four trips to the playoffs in five years isn't dressing it up, that's just a fact. What is or isn't a threat varies wildly person to person.



The day you arrived here was already after the downturn so I have no idea what you were saying before that point.



You very clearly are.

You're using COVID as the reason the Islanders had success in the ECF years but are diminishing the impact it had on the only year the team didn't make the playoffs.

PK for the win.

 

[Skip To My Lou]

I'm thankful for everything Brock has done, and how he's picked up his game since Trotz came along. But trading him and getting a nice return is the only way to build some assets. This team is depleted, and the old core is washed up.

We have some solid parts to retool in Barzal, Horvat, Sorokin, Dobson, Romanov, Pulock, and Pelech. But now it's time to start anew.

We had our little run, but keep believing in this team after two years of failure is the purest definition of insanity.

 

[PK Cronin]

How do you figure? This was a team coming off of an ECF and were being touted as a true Cup contender by the folks here. They had a long road trip to start and came out of it close to .500 with plenty of time and supposed a great team with lots of home games to come. They got screwed in a couple of games with sick players but in the end they missed the playoffs by 16 f**king pts. Who's picking and choosing again?

It was a significant amount of games, way more than a couple, and 16 points is only 8 games. Let's just say that the team had an AHL heavy lineup for 4 games, that's a significant portion of that point total and I'm pretty sure it was longer than 4 games (and they were impacted by having to rotate out the NHLers that were in the lineup so there wasn't any consistency there either).

 

[Torrey Redux]

You dismiss the playoff success (cuz COVID) but nary a word about COVID when it comes to the 21/22 season. "Couple of games with sick players." LOL nice try. How many games did they have to ice an AHL lineup when more than half the team was out?

I never bring up COVID as an excuse for that season UNLESS people start putting an asterisk next to the two ECF runs. Which you continue to do. I'll concede 21/22 as a legit, disappointing, playoff-less season if you're willing to concede the two seasons prior were legit playoff runs.

I don't care if you concede or not. And I do think the Covid years deserve an asterisk and have always said so. Roger Maris's 61 too. 154 games and 162 games is different. Doesn't mean it wasn't a great accomplishment and it doesn't mean that the Isles runs weren't nice and fun. But Covid mattered in every year, and if you want, it even mattered in 21/22, but it didn't matter 16 pts and anyone who thinks it did is just making excuses.

 

[PK Cronin]

I'm thankful for everything Brock has done, and how he's picked up his game since Trotz came along. But trading him and getting a nice return is the only way to build some assets. This team is depleted, and the old core is washed up.

We have some solid parts to retool in Barzal, Horvat, Sorokin, Dobson, Romanov, Pulock, and Pelech. But now it's time to start anew.

We had our little run, but keep believing in this team after two years of failure is the purest definition of insanity.

Nelson is 32 and has another year left on his deal. The Islanders have no business keeping him after his current deal expires so if there's a market for him now (and there should be) then he should go now. I don't mind if he's traded at the draft or in the summer instead but having him go into that last year is a mistake I think. Get what you can for him now, clear cap space, and give yourself an opportunity to shake up some more of the roster too.

 

[Tres Peleches]

The current core also includes, Sorokin, Romanov, Dobson, Horvat. None of them were part of the core during the PO runs.

But the original core (guys like Nelson, Pageau, Lee) have run their course

They’re not getting younger, and they’re not going to move the needle enough for us to warrant not moving them

You can get a kings ransom for Nelson. You move him if you get the right deal

 

[Torrey Redux]

It was a significant amount of games, way more than a couple, and 16 points is only 8 games. Let's just say that the team had an AHL heavy lineup for 4 games, that's a significant portion of that point total and I'm pretty sure it was longer than 4 games (and they were impacted by having to rotate out the NHLers that were in the lineup so there wasn't any consistency there either).

So they were going to go 8-0 during those 8 games? C'mon man, they weren't a playoff team that year by any metric. And yes, the Isles took the brunt of the protocol before the league figured it out, but other teams lost lots of player games too. None of it adds up to 16 pts worth or anything close to it.

 

[Top Corner]

Well, you can see it like that, but you can't actually see it like that.

Not if you wish to be sincere.

You're basically saying that it was all gonna happen with Snow anyway. That takes all the culture-changing that took place with Lou - probably about the BIGGEST difference in his being GM entailed - out of the equation.

There's simply no taking away from the fact that a team under Snow and with Tavares didn't come close to achieving what Lamoriello did with more or less that same group - sans Tavares.

I mean, Year 1 = Round 2 of the playoffs. Years 2 and 3, as wild as they were due to the Corona situation, end up = the Conference final, actually improving on that in each of those seasons (Game 6 loss turns into Game 7 1-0 loss).

That simply can in no way whatsoever be taken away from Lou's GMing of this team. That happened under his watch and there's never any telling if all those players drafted and acquired by his predecessor would ever come close to achieving what they did had it not come under his watch and with his guidance.

None.

Wasn't really making it about Snow was just saying , If Snow did remain as GM and Trotz signed on under Snow, the million dollar question is would we have made the ECF with Trotz or not ?

If it did happen, I would be betting yes but we will never now and is why I think Trotz was the primary reason for success. Too bad Snow wasn't smart enough to figure out a good coach goes a long way

I think people here are giving Lou too much crap but also are giving him too much credit!

IMO, the roster was always flawed but the stars aligned for a few years which unfortunately caused us to mortgage what we need now, a few new Dobson's and Barzals to replace the older group

 

[Doshell Propivo]

I don't care if you concede or not. And I do think the Covid years deserve an asterisk and have always said so. Roger Maris's 61 too. 154 games and 162 games is different. Doesn't mean it wasn't a great accomplishment and it doesn't mean that the Isles runs weren't nice and fun. But Covid mattered in every year, and if you want, it even mattered in 21/22, but it didn't matter 16 pts and anyone who thinks it did is just making excuses.

I see. Covid mattered more in the two ECF runs and Covid mattered less in the 21/22 season.

If anything, the bubble playoffs and the 2021 playoffs were an even playing field. The 21/22 season was a shit show and had a disproportionate impact on some teams. Like the Islanders.

Wasn't really making it about Snow was just saying , If Snow did remain as GM and Trotz signed on under Snow, the million dollar question is would we have made the ECF with Trotz or not ?

If it did happen, I would be betting yes but we will never now and is why I think Trotz was the primary reason for success. Too bad Snow wasn't smart enough to figure out a good coach goes a long way

I think people here are giving Lou too much crap but also are giving him too much credit!

IMO, the roster was always flawed but the stars aligned for a few years which unfortunately caused us to mortgage what we need now, a few new Dobson's and Barzals to replace the older group

Trotz does not come here if Snow is GM. Come on.

 

[Torrey Redux]

I see. Covid mattered more in the two ECF runs and Covid mattered less in the 21/22 season.

If anything, the bubble playoffs and the 2021 playoffs were an even playing field. The 21/22 season was a shit show and had a disproportionate impact on some teams. Like the Islanders.

Believe whatever you want, the bottom line is that since the bubbles the Isles have accomplished nothing, unless you consider getting bounced in the first round one time (just like the old days) an accomplishment.

 

[Mr Misunderstood]

PK for the win.

Poster? yes.

23-24 NYI PK? absolutely f***ing not.

 

[gordie43]

Get out of here. At the TDL in 19-20 and 20-21 everyone here was clamoring to trade the farm and go all in because we could see the writing on the wall in the future that the core was aging. That meant trading 1sts and future in order to win now.

He did just that and it got them to the final 4. Twice. Only to be stopped by a dynasty (lower case d).

Now you have to live with the consequences. Great GM's can get out of the jam they've made for themselves, Good GM's can tread water, Bad GM's make it worse. The question is - which one is Lou at this stage of his career?

Great point. If you have a chance you go all in, and that is what Lou did giving his team the best players available at the deadline.

There is clearly something wrong now, let’s see if he can fix it. Clock is definitely ticking, but the talent is there.

 

[crashthenet]

You dismiss the playoff success (cuz COVID) but nary a word about COVID when it comes to the 21/22 season. "Couple of games with sick players." LOL nice try. How many games did they have to ice an AHL lineup when more than half the team was out?

I never bring up COVID as an excuse for that season UNLESS people start putting an asterisk next to the two ECF runs. Which you continue to do. I'll concede 21/22 as a legit, disappointing, playoff-less season if you're willing to concede the two seasons prior were legit playoff runs.

How quickly they forget. A couple of part timers visiting today.

 

[gordie43]

Nelson is 32 and has another year left on his deal. The Islanders have no business keeping him after his current deal expires so if there's a market for him now (and there should be) then he should go now. I don't mind if he's traded at the draft or in the summer instead but having him go into that last year is a mistake I think. Get what you can for him now, clear cap space, and give yourself an opportunity to shake up some more of the roster too.

If your dealing Nelson who replaces his 30 goals next season? I guess you can say if you can lose with them and you can still lose without him, but that is a big hit for your offense to take. It’s not like Horvat, Barzal, Sorokin, Pelech, Pulock, Dobson are getting younger.

If Lou is able to get a haul for him that will make an impact next year sure why not but if it’s not earth shattering, why would you deal a player who consistently puts up 25-30?

 

[Doshell Propivo]

Poster? yes.

23-24 NYI PK? absolutely f***ing not.

LOL!

 

[Tres Peleches]

If your dealing Nelson who replaces his 30 goals next season? I guess you can say if you can lose with them and you can still lose without him, but that is a big hit for your offense to take. It’s not like Horvat, Barzal, Sorokin, Pelech, Pulock, Dobson are getting younger.

If Lou is able to get a haul for him that will make an impact next year sure why not but if it’s not earth shattering, why would you deal a player who consistently puts up 25-30?

Because the world exists outside of these next two seasons.

The alternative is paying a lot of money and years to a 33 YO winger to play for a team with an aging core and hardly any prospects of note that already passed their window OR losing him for nothing in FA

Keeping Nelson does not get this team closer to a SC. Trading him is a step-back, for sure. But one that, if you make the right deal, can set you up to go even higher later on

 

[PK Cronin]

So they were going to go 8-0 during those 8 games? C'mon man, they weren't a playoff team that year by any metric. And yes, the Isles took the brunt of the protocol before the league figured it out, but other teams lost lots of player games too. None of it adds up to 16 pts worth or anything close to it.

No, I don't think they'd go 8-0 during those games but they could've won some of them instead of being handed automatic losses. We're talking about an illness that impacted people's respiratory system too, so even when cleared it doesn't mean players were 100%. Then there's the impact of the rotation of players coming in and out. For example, If the Islanders were missing 9 regulars from their lineup but the rest of the lineup wasn't necessarily the same the entire time. You have Bailey in one game and then out the next, you have Nelson out and then in. That makes it pretty much impossible to get any consistency or chemistry going.

And that's not to mention the fact that other teams were given points by facing the Islanders during that time period, while also not having to face the same level of adversity in their own season. It's possible that the teams they were chasing wouldn't have accrued as many points had they not been gifted wins against the Islanders (and another team that I can't remember) or weren't given the pause to have their players fully recover from the illness.

The last part that is that you're using COVID as a reason the Islanders went on their runs but it's not based on anything but what you think was going to happen. They were struggling when the season paused so they were fortunate to get into the playoffs, but you don't know for certain that they wouldn't have made it anyway. It's also completely ignoring that the team performed better than other teams in the same given timeframe and that they beat higher seeded teams multiple times in the playoffs for two straight years (including perennial playoff contenders).

So while the COVID "excuse" might not be super great for that 2021 season going off the rails, at least there's tangible evidence of the impact COVID had compared to the fictitious alternate timeline in the ECF years that is consistently presented by fans who want to downplay those runs.

I think that 2021 team wasn't as good as the previous versions so I'm not confident they make the playoffs even without COVID, but I know that the COVID situation didn't help them out and the NHL f***ed up by not suspending their season sooner because it created an unbalanced situation.

 

[Glory Days]

So they were going to go 8-0 during those 8 games? C'mon man, they weren't a playoff team that year by any metric. And yes, the Isles took the brunt of the protocol before the league figured it out, but other teams lost lots of player games too. None of it adds up to 16 pts worth or anything close to it.

Isles had 4 games postponed in late December that season. In the 17 games prior to the postponements the Isles were 3-14 including one stretch of losing 11 in a row. Most of those games the team played with a heavily depleted lineup. The Isles were never able to recover from that stretch.

 

[PK Cronin]

I see. Covid mattered more in the two ECF runs and Covid mattered less in the 21/22 season.

If anything, the bubble playoffs and the 2021 playoffs were an even playing field. The 21/22 season was a shit show and had a disproportionate impact on some teams. Like the Islanders.

That's correct, because nobody was actively dealing with an illness from COVID during that stretch. Seasons paused, went to points percentage, and then everyone went to the bubble (and there was an extra round for lower seeds to play through).

If your dealing Nelson who replaces his 30 goals next season? I guess you can say if you can lose with them and you can still lose without him, but that is a big hit for your offense to take. It’s not like Horvat, Barzal, Sorokin, Pelech, Pulock, Dobson are getting younger.

If Lou is able to get a haul for him that will make an impact next year sure why not but if it’s not earth shattering, why would you deal a player who consistently puts up 25-30?

I think this is a step back to take a step forward situation. Lee, Nelson, Bailey, Eberle, Palmieri, etc. have had their time and couldn't get over the hump so now it's time to move on. I think you shed Nelson, take a step back if nothing is available and start to look for trades or signings the following year.

Horvat, Barzal, Sorokin, and Dobson are all young enough that you can do a two year re-tool and still have them performing well once the team is making pushes again. Holding Nelson and having another season like this one and if Nelson's production dips, is a wasted year anyway and the team would get less of a return back on him. Strike while the iron is hot in this case because he won't be (shouldn't be I guess) on this team after next season.

 

[ScaredStreit]

His moves have all been terrible. Even the ones where the value wasn't bad, those are bad, too! He traded for Romanov and Horvat and mortgaged even more of the future for the present and the present stinks! He thought the team deserved going all in on and it didn't! That's an insanely bad choice and one that was obvious at the time.

You can go all the way back to his first few weeks here when he responded to JT leaving by offering grotesque 4 year deals to both Hickey and Komarov. Deals that were bad the moment they were announced. It was those deals, and the effect they had on the cap, that led to Toews for two seconds, one of the worst deals in Isles history.

Lou has been bad at his job. Pretty much from the get go. His years here look eerily similar to the last decade or so in Jersey. And those ended about as badly as any in recent history.

That's what's coming here. The only way to avoid that is to rip the heart out of this team NOW and do it fast. They won't do it. Lou will continue to be the GM an he will continue to believe in this team. And in the end it'll be us, the fans, who pay the price for that absurd belief.

Horvat's trade and deal were fine. We got a 1st line forward locked in for 8 years at market value. We gave up a prospect who may or may not live up to his potential, a player who was moved for a 5th round pick, and a 1st round pick which see the comments about said prospect. Horvat is not the reason why this team is in the situation it's in.

Romanov much of the same. We got a top-4 defensemen for a 13th overall pick...seems reasonable. Romanov is also young and again not the reason why we're in the situation we're in.