Roster/Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2023-24: Hotel California

[Top Corner]

as much as I hate Lamoriello...

he did give us trotz

he did give us Sorokin

he gave the islanders two runs to the ECF

he made the islanders a better team before the team started to give out

I get that he isn't great. but to act like he's Milbury is wrong. Problem is that we need him out now BEFORE even more harm is done. those firsts haven't amounted to much thankfully, but the islanders need more homegrown talent, and they need more out of their kids. It’s time to start focusing back on Bridgeport. I absolutely love it how Tikkannen has looked over there.

He gave us Trotz - Correct
He gave us Sorokin - Correct
He gave the Isles 2 ECF - Not correct, that was Trotz alone. There were no real changes to the roster that Snow compiled besides the goalie which was needed out of necessity

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

He gave us Trotz - Correct
He gave us Sorokin - Correct
He gave the Isles 2 ECF - Not correct, that was Trotz alone. There were no real changes to the roster that Snow compiled besides the goalie which was needed out of necessity,

Well, you can see it like that, but you can't actually see it like that.

Not if you wish to be sincere.

You're basically saying that it was all gonna happen with Snow anyway. That takes all the culture-changing that took place with Lou - probably about the BIGGEST difference in his being GM entailed - out of the equation.

There's simply no taking away from the fact that a team under Snow and with Tavares didn't come close to achieving what Lamoriello did with more or less that same group - sans Tavares.

I mean, Year 1 = Round 2 of the playoffs. Years 2 and 3, as wild as they were due to the Corona situation, end up = the Conference final, actually improving on that in each of those seasons (Game 6 loss turns into Game 7 1-0 loss).

That simply can in no way whatsoever be taken away from Lou's GMing of this team. That happened under his watch and there's never any telling if all those players drafted and acquired by his predecessor would ever come close to achieving what they did had it not come under his watch and with his guidance.

None.

 

[crashthenet]

Yeah, this is just revisionist history. The team isn't doing well, and there are certainly some bad decisions on contracts, but all Lou's moves haven't been terrible and he hasn't been terrible for years. This is just a poster acting like a Monday morning QB because the current product is awful. A lot of this onus has to fall on the players.

100% this plus Houda is a failure. This team closes out a few third periods and perhaps kills a penalty or two and your picture is dramatically different.

No one that posts here was concerned about this team's ability to kill penalties in September btw.

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

While I’m not comparing Debrusk to any of the previous pending UFAs Lou has traded for, the expectation in my proposal was that he agrees to sign with the Isles like every single player has since Lou arrived.

Looking at Debrusk is not something bad. Certainly not.

And yes, the safe assumption is that any UFA Lou is bringing in is one he's gonna get signed. We have no evidence to the contrary.

I think that in the theoretical world that sees Lou be a seller for the first time, seeing Pageau moved to Boston in return for Debrusk and solid prospect and/or future 1st rounder is the type of thing we could expect to see.

 

[crashthenet]

Well, you can see it like that, but you can't actually see it like that.

Not if you wish to be sincere.

You're basically saying that it was all gonna happen with Snow anyway. That takes all the culture-changing that took place with Lou - probably about the BIGGEST difference in his being GM entailed - out of the equation. And yet there's no evidence that speaks against that aspect being a huge part of the turnaround.

There's simply no taking away from the fact that a team that more or less under Snow and with Tavares didn't come close to achieving what Lamoriello did with more or less that same group sans Tavares.

I mean, Year 1 = Round 2 of the playoffs. Years 2 and 3, as wild as they were due to the Corona situation, end up = the Conference final, actually improving on that in each of those seasons (Game 6 loss turns into Game 7 1-0 loss).

That simply can in no way whatsoever be taken away from Lou's GMing of this team. That happened under his watch and there's never any telling if all those players drafted and acquired by his predecessor would ever come close to achieving what they did had it not come under his watch and with his guidance.

None.

Some of this falls on deaf ears here. Players need to play. Bad GMing cost us the outdoor game? Inability to score in a shootout fall on the GM? C'mon.

As far as trades go- JGP, Pelech, and pehaps Clutter. Wahlstrom, Martin, Aho go at the end of the season.

 

[Arsenalogist24]

I do think there will be some interest in Palmeiri at the deadline too. Obviously Brock has been discussed most. I think Mike Reilly has 100% proven himself to the league he can still be very valuable for a mid rounder. Clutterbuck something late?

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

Some of this falls on deaf ears here. Players need to play. Bad GMing cost us the outdoor game? Inability to score in a shootout fall on the GM? C'mon.

As far as trades go- JGP, Pelech, and pehaps Clutter. Wahlstrom, Martin, Aho go at the end of the season.

I fear we all know what is going to happen here.

He signed late last summer on a "show-me" contract. He's proceeded to have his worse season to date. In a year he needed to arrive in some measurable, contributing way, shape, and form.

He'll simply be allowed to walk as a UFA this summer.

***
At this point, I think we'll all be surprised to see Marty and Clutter in an Isles uniform next season.

 

[Osakahaus]

Vegas throws picks and prospects around like its nobodys business .

whats left in their cupboard to blow Lou's socks off ?

Dorofeyev?

 

[crashthenet]

I fear we all know what is going to happen here.

He signed late last summer on a "show-me" contract. He's proceeded to have his worse season to date. In a year he needed to arrive in some measurable, contributing way, shape, and form.

He'll simply be allowed to walk as a UFA this summer.

***
At this point, I think we'll all be surprised to see Marty and Clutter in an Isles uniform next season.

You can't roll the dice on bad skaters in the first round any more.

Would like to see the Faschings and Gauthiers replaced with much angrier players. They don't bring enough offensively and particularly in Gautier's case defensively to the table to tolerate their passive play.

Dorofeyev?

No.

 

[Richie Daggers Crime]

I mean, look at what Tampa paid for Jeannot last trade deadline. Nelson is stud on this market.

It's difficult to look at it that way because the market is so volatile from year to year and outliers spend on specific things. I think you may be looking at it a little too much from an Islanders perspective and not from a league wide one. Not saying that you're wrong, but there's other factors in play that have yet to be determined.

 

[periferal]

You can't roll the dice on bad skaters in the first round any more.

You think Wahlstrom’s problem is his skating!?!?

I promise you his problem is that thing located above his neck between his ears.

If you want to avoid something in the first round, avoid a faulty one of those.

 

[seafoam]

Jeannot was young and cost controlled. That played into the premium they paid, just like they did with Hagel, Paul, Goodrow, etc.

Jeannot just happened to bust…

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

It's difficult to look at it that way because the market is so volatile from year to year and outliers spend on specific things. I think you may be looking at it a little too much from an Islanders perspective and not from a league wide one. Not saying that you're wrong, but there's other factors in play that have yet to be determined.

If we want to measure his trade value more specifically for the current market, would not Lindholm's return be somewhat of a measuring stick?

 

[The Real JT]

Looking at Debrusk is not something bad. Certainly not.

And yes, the safe assumption is that any UFA Lou is bringing in is one he's gonna get signed. We have no evidence to the contrary.

I think that in the theoretical world that sees Lou be a seller for the first time, seeing Pageau moved to Boston in return for Debrusk and solid prospect and/or future 1st rounder is the type of thing we could expect to see.

I too could see JGP traded to the B’s though I think you’re overestimating his value. DeBrusk has positive value in a trade and then throwing a solid prospect or first rounder is way too much for the isles to expect. I’d be ecstatic to be proved wrong.

We can also throw in Wahlstrom to any deal with the Bruins. The kid has a local connection having played for BC but frankly his value is approaching zero at this point in time.

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

Jeannot was young and cost controlled. That played into the premium they paid, just like they did with Hagel, Paul, Goodrow, etc.

Jeannot just happened to bust…

It's difficult to look at it that way because the market is so volatile from year to year and outliers spend on specific things. I think you may be looking at it a little too much from an Islanders perspective and not from a league wide one. Not saying that you're wrong, but there's other factors in play that have yet to be determined.

Just off hand - mentioning the Jeannot trade was not to compare the player Nelson and his trade market value to the player Jeannot and his.

It was only to point out that when teams identify someone they really want, there's no telling how much they're willing to move for that guy. It can be an awful lot.

 

[SCMURRAY]

5 games left before the deadline. 7 points out of the playoff spot. Tough spot to be in. Certainly not out of it but this team doesn't have enough juice. Lou should call the UFAs into his office and see if they want to go. Hold onto to your core guys and see what Roy can do with a full training camp and season

 

[crashthenet]

You think Wahlstrom’s problem is his skating!?!?

I promise you his problem is that thing located above his neck between his ears.

If you want to avoid something in the first round, avoid a faulty one of those.

I guess one of his problem's is skating and the other as you point out...

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

I too could see JGP traded to the B’s though I think you’re overestimating his value. DeBrusk has positive value in a trade and then throwing a solid prospect or first rounder is way too much for the isles to expect. I’d be ecstatic to be proved wrong.

Not seen in a vacuum, yes, that would be more than Pageau is - in and of himself - probably worth in a trade.

I'm just heavily convinced that this is a market for centers, be they producers or two-way pluggers who can help real well in the playoffs.

And we've seen time and time again how often GMs are ready to slightly overpay when they feel that kind of piece is pretty much the one thing their team is missing.

And as a player still on contract, the Isles certainly don't need to move him for anything other than a slight overpayment.

All just theoretically playing around with the idea that Lou would be open to using this opportunity to look forward.

We can also throw in Walstrom to any deal with the Bruins. The kid has a local connection having played for BC but frankly his value is approaching zero at this point in time.

Definitely!

I even mentioned exactly that in one of the scenarios I submitted a few weeks back. Yes, Wahlstrom has those ties.

 

[Skip To My Lou]

Dorofeyev?

Bigggggg fan of him.

 

[The Real JT]

5 games left before the deadline. 7 points out of the playoff spot. Tough spot to be in. Certainly not out of it but this team doesn't have enough juice. Lou should call the UFAs into his office and see if they want to go. Hold onto to your core guys and see what Roy can do with a full training camp and season

I think you’re putting the cart before the horse.

If you have someone that you are considering trading then get the offers and make your best deal. If the player is a UFA then you will have a conversation with the player but you’re not really asking for their permission.

If the player is anything other than a UFA, then you can have private trade discussions with other teams but proactively asking the player if they would like to move doesn’t exactly play well in the player’s head or in the locker room.

 

[saintunspecified]

If we want to measure his trade value more specifically for the current market, would not Lindholm's return be somewhat of a measuring stick?

Hard to say, because the 1 year left is either a plus or a minus depending on the team who may want him. But probably pretty close.

 

[Throttle]

He gave us Trotz - Correct
He gave us Sorokin - Correct
He gave the Isles 2 ECF - Not correct, that was Trotz alone. There were no real changes to the roster that Snow compiled besides the goalie which was needed out of necessity

You get none of the above under the Snow/Weight rodeo.

 

[Mr Misunderstood]

He gave us Trotz - Correct
He gave us Sorokin - Correct
He gave the Isles 2 ECF - Not correct, that was Trotz alone. There were no real changes to the roster that Snow compiled besides the goalie which was needed out of necessity

Alone? Weren't JGP and Palmieri the top TDL targets in 20 and 21, respectively?

 

[PK Cronin]

Alone? Weren't JGP and Palmieri the top TDL targets in 20 and 21, respectively?

And we're not allowed to remember Lehner, then letting Lehner walk in favor of Varlamov which netted the team Sorokin too. Andy Greene apparently stunk too.

Since the team didn't win the cup we're not allowed to applaud any of the moves that were done. If we do, we're drinking the Kool Aid and "In Lou We Trust" camp. It's the same tired people or new accounts trotting out the same Lou is shit and has always been shit schtick all of the time, it's tiresome.

 

[Mr Misunderstood]

And we're not allowed to remember Lehner, then letting Lehner walk in favor of Varlamov which netted the team Sorokin too. Andy Greene apparently stunk too.

Since the team didn't win the cup we're not allowed to applaud any of the moves that were done. If we do, we're drinking the Kool Aid and "In Lou We Trust" camp. It's the same tired people or new accounts trotting out the same Lou is shit and has always been shit schtick all of the time, it's tiresome.

I'm all aboard the 'Lou has failed' train currently.

That cannot be applied to what he did at the time. I don't care that those COVID affected seasons did the NYI favors and could be considered asterisk'd, Lou did the job to his best ability at the time. We were ecstatic when JGP and Palmieri were acquired. Nobody can take that away, regardless of how much Lou is hated at this point in time.