Roster/Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2023-24: Hotel California

[SI]

While I’m not comparing Debrusk to any of the previous pending UFAs Lou has traded for, the expectation in my proposal was that he agrees to sign with the Isles like every single player has since Lou arrived.

Even resigned that package is simply not good enough. Just go read the bruins boards about him - need more if the team is going to move Nelson.

And Boston simply doesn’t have the pieces to acquire Nelson - albeit they have the need.

IMO, it needs to be a massive return, then Isles can use cap space to bring in a UFA like Guentzel

 

[JRD76]

Buffalo wins. 2 points behind Isles

 

[Osakahaus]

Buffalo wins. 2 points behind Isles

good. i want to see how low this team can get before Lamoriello gets canned. Time is ticking.

 

[Osakahaus]

"I believe in this team"

 

[Strickland]

This team stinks. It's being led by a GM who time has passed by and who can't do his job anymore. It's been clear for YEARS that Lou is a bad GM (look at his moves -- awful) and once Trotz left, the team collapsed. You have to tear this team apart. Only question is how.

You've been discussing Brock, but beyond Nelson (a no-brainer, isles could get a first and a top prospect if they eat $$) the two pieces they SHOULD move in the next few weeks (be it now or at the draft) are Pelech and Pulock. Might be easier to trade them both now to a contender and get them to waive the NTCs (tough but not impossible, IMO) than at the draft. Pulock would be one of the most desired commodities on the market, a RHD who can play top minutes on a contract with term. the Isles would get a king's ransom for him. Pelech's a bit tougher as the LHD market is deeper, but you can still probably get a good amount for him, too.

The team is not gonna do it, but they're run by an idiot who doesn't know what he's doing. This is like the Hamonic trade. Sure, you're making yourself much weaker in the short term, but you're turning two aging and slowly declining assets into significant pieces in the medium and long term.

That, to me, is the only way this team can do a quick turn around. and by quick, I'm talking about next summer (2025) when some of the dead weight on this team starts to clear.

Draft a d-Man high in 2024, maybe get a top D-Man prospect (Willander from Van for Pulock?) in a trade and in two years, you've replaced Pelech and Pulock and gotten some other assets to boot. Plus, the cap space.

I dunno, there's nothing else here to sell that won't trigger a total tear down besides Nelson/Pelech/Pulock.

 

[Glorydays22]

This team stinks. It's being led by a GM who time has passed by and who can't do his job anymore. It's been clear for YEARS that Lou is a bad GM (look at his moves -- awful) and once Trotz left, the team collapsed. You have to tear this team apart. Only question is how.

You've been discussing Brock, but beyond Nelson (a no-brainer, isles could get a first and a top prospect if they eat $$) the two pieces they SHOULD move in the next few weeks (be it now or at the draft) are Pelech and Pulock. Might be easier to trade them both now to a contender and get them to waive the NTCs (tough but not impossible, IMO) than at the draft. Pulock would be one of the most desired commodities on the market, a RHD who can play top minutes on a contract with term. the Isles would get a king's ransom for him. Pelech's a bit tougher as the LHD market is deeper, but you can still probably get a good amount for him, too.

The team is not gonna do it, but they're run by an idiot who doesn't know what he's doing. This is like the Hamonic trade. Sure, you're making yourself much weaker in the short term, but you're turning two aging and slowly declining assets into significant pieces in the medium and long term.

That, to me, is the only way this team can do a quick turn around. and by quick, I'm talking about next summer (2025) when some of the dead weight on this team starts to clear.

Draft a d-Man high in 2024, maybe get a top D-Man prospect (Willander from Van for Pulock?) in a trade and in two years, you've replaced Pelech and Pulock and gotten some other assets to boot. Plus, the cap space.

I dunno, there's nothing else here to sell that won't trigger a total tear down besides Nelson/Pelech/Pulock.

The only way any of this happens is if mgmt. tells Lou to step down.

 

[Osakahaus]

The only way any of this happens is if mgmt. tells Lou to step down.

He should be stepping down after this season. This is by far one of the most disappointing seasons in islander history, not only from an objective standpoint, but from how much wasted potential was pissed away.

 

[Strickland]

The only way any of this happens is if mgmt. tells Lou to step down.

He needs to be fired. He's not going to. He's going to continue to destroy this franchise in the interim.

I've been skimming here and I don't think people realize how grim it is here. I've been a fan since the early 90's and i don't think the on ice product has ever been in such a dire state. Maybe in like 2007 but at least even then they had Okposo in the system.

They have to do something drastic and dramatic here in the next little while to even have a hope of salvaging this core. They won't though. Because the GM sucks.

And like the Devils, when he's inevitably fired, the Isles will spend a decade wandering the league in purgatory thanks to his absurd contracts and terrible farm system.

Without Trotz we are putting Lou up there with Milbury for the destruction he has wrought.

 

[Osakahaus]

Without Trotz we are putting Lou up there with Milbury for the destruction he has wrought.

as much as I hate Lamoriello...

he did give us trotz

he did give us Sorokin

he gave the islanders two runs to the ECF

he made the islanders a better team before the team started to give out

I get that he isn't great. but to act like he's Milbury is wrong. Problem is that we need him out now BEFORE even more harm is done. those firsts haven't amounted to much thankfully, but the islanders need more homegrown talent, and they need more out of their kids. Its time to start focusing back on Bridgeport. I absolutely love it how Tikkannen has looked over there.

 

[Osakahaus]

Bob says that the following have circled in on Nelson
-Rangers
-Vegas
-Toronto
-Edmonton
-Dallas

I would personally want Dallas. Give me their prospects. we need that jolt PRONTO.

 

[Strickland]

as much as I hate Lamoriello...

he did give us trotz

he did give us Sorokin

he gave the islanders two runs to the ECF

he made the islanders a better team before the team started to give out

I get that he isn't great. but to act like he's Milbury is wrong. Problem is that we need him out now BEFORE even more harm is done. those firsts haven't amounted to much thankfully, but the islanders need more homegrown talent, and they need more out of their kids. Its time to start focusing back on Bridgeport. I absolutely love it how Tikkannen has looked over there.

he didn't give us Sorokin. Snow did. Lou just signed him. Which you can give him credit for, but based on the contract seems like he was always gonna come over after the 2020 season and he could become an immediate RFA.

And you can give him credit for the ECF's but based on the team's performance once Trotz left, it's easy to see who was doing all the actual heavy lifting with that squad.

Finally, he's not leaving NOW. He's got at least another season, if not more, here. They let him hire a new coach! And if he's staying, it means he's doing more damage to the club. It's already an incalculable amount so what's even more?

 

[Osakahaus]

he didn't give us Sorokin. Snow did. Lou just signed him. Which you can give him credit for, but based on the contract seems like he was always gonna come over after the 2020 season and he could become an immediate RFA.

And you can give him credit for the ECF's but based on the team's performance once Trotz left, it's easy to see who was doing all the actual heavy lifting with that squad.

Finally, he's not leaving NOW. He's got at least another season, if not more, here. They let him hire a new coach! And if he's staying, it means he's doing more damage to the club. It's already an incalculable amount so what's even more?

The only reason Sorokin came here because of Lamoriello. If Snow was in charge he would've never stayed. I get that argyment.

The problem to Lamoriello is his dependency on everything going RIGHT. For the past four seasons, the islanders have been undone by a very weak part of their roster getting hurt. in 2020 it was Pelech. In 2021 it was Lee. in 2022 it was Palmieri. In 2023 it was Pelech and Barzal. This season? its been everything. the islanders health has been so putrid as of late, that it kinda makes you wonder if Lamoriello ever thought about contingency plans. even with bad GM's like Chiarelli, Holland, and others, at least they have contingencies. Lamoriello hasn't done anything. I've never seen a GM doing absolutely nothing for five straight offseasons, regardless if you agree with trades or not. The amount of fresh new FREE AGENT faces this team has added since 2019 is in the single digits. That includes Varlamov, Gauthier, Parise, Brassard, and Chara. Nobody else has come in through free agency. Unless I am wrong, our free agency additions are almost insanely bare. How the heck did Lamoriello refuse to add for the past half decade when this team has been aging and getting more mileage?

you really need to add in at least 3-5 new faces. The islanders have to do something in the offseason. Not for the sake of it, but to prove to the fans that
A-we have a plan for the future of the bottom 6
and
B-we actually can spend on much needed changes that this roster has been lacking.

 

[ScaredStreit]

This team stinks. It's being led by a GM who time has passed by and who can't do his job anymore. It's been clear for YEARS that Lou is a bad GM (look at his moves -- awful) and once Trotz left, the team collapsed. You have to tear this team apart. Only question is how.

You've been discussing Brock, but beyond Nelson (a no-brainer, isles could get a first and a top prospect if they eat $$) the two pieces they SHOULD move in the next few weeks (be it now or at the draft) are Pelech and Pulock. Might be easier to trade them both now to a contender and get them to waive the NTCs (tough but not impossible, IMO) than at the draft. Pulock would be one of the most desired commodities on the market, a RHD who can play top minutes on a contract with term. the Isles would get a king's ransom for him. Pelech's a bit tougher as the LHD market is deeper, but you can still probably get a good amount for him, too.

The team is not gonna do it, but they're run by an idiot who doesn't know what he's doing. This is like the Hamonic trade. Sure, you're making yourself much weaker in the short term, but you're turning two aging and slowly declining assets into significant pieces in the medium and long term.

That, to me, is the only way this team can do a quick turn around. and by quick, I'm talking about next summer (2025) when some of the dead weight on this team starts to clear.

Draft a d-Man high in 2024, maybe get a top D-Man prospect (Willander from Van for Pulock?) in a trade and in two years, you've replaced Pelech and Pulock and gotten some other assets to boot. Plus, the cap space.

I dunno, there's nothing else here to sell that won't trigger a total tear down besides Nelson/Pelech/Pulock.

Moving Pelech and/or Pulock would be a huge mistake. If you sign guys to lengthy extensions and then get rid of them shortly after you can't expect players around the league to line up for the team. This isn't NHL 24.

The main problem with relying on prospects-especially in a re-tool scenario and not a full on rebuild-is that some will reach their potential and some wont. It's easy to pencil everything is an assume they'll be as good or better than Pulock and Pelech...but will they? If so how long will that take? Also young D just drafted take longer than forwards to develop.

Lastly while I certainly agree LL needs to go...you can't honestly look at this team and say it's the worst built team since the early 90's. I just don't understand how anyone could suggest such a thing. LL's main job was to bring stability and respectability to the franchise from the ground up-which honestly he's done a good job at. We're not longer the laughing stock of the NHL like we were for years and years in the past.

 

[Osakahaus]

Lastly while I certainly agree LL needs to go...you can't honestly look at this team and say it's the worst built team since the early 90's. I just don't understand how anyone could suggest such a thing. LL's main job was to bring stability and respectability to the franchise from the ground up-which honestly he's done a good job at. We're not longer the laughing stock of the NHL like we were for years and years in the past.

Problem is that we're at mediocrity. This team needs a jolt, new building and all. I just hope that new generations dont hate Lou for what he did.

 

[Strickland]

Moving Pelech and/or Pulock would be a huge mistake. If you sign guys to lengthy extensions and then get rid of them shortly after you can't expect players around the league to line up for the team. This isn't NHL 24.

The main problem with relying on prospects-especially in a re-tool scenario and not a full on rebuild-is that some will reach their potential and some wont. It's easy to pencil everything is an assume they'll be as good or better than Pulock and Pelech...but will they? If so how long will that take? Also young D just drafted take longer than forwards to develop.

Lastly while I certainly agree LL needs to go...you can't honestly look at this team and say it's the worst built team since the early 90's. I just don't understand how anyone could suggest such a thing. LL's main job was to bring stability and respectability to the franchise from the ground up-which honestly he's done a good job at. We're not longer the laughing stock of the NHL like we were for years and years in the past.

they have one of, if not the worst prospect pools in the game, they're going to miss the playoffs for the second time in three years (made it last year by the skin of their teeth) and they have so many long term deals with NTC that you almost can't d anything to them.

the GM is an abject failure. he did this while not having the ownership yoke on his neck, like snow and milbury did. and they sucked.

 

[LeapOnOver]

as much as I hate Lamoriello...

he did give us trotz

he did give us Sorokin

he gave the islanders two runs to the ECF

he made the islanders a better team before the team started to give out

I get that he isn't great. but to act like he's Milbury is wrong. Problem is that we need him out now BEFORE even more harm is done. those firsts haven't amounted to much thankfully, but the islanders need more homegrown talent, and they need more out of their kids. Its time to start focusing back on Bridgeport. I absolutely love it how Tikkannen has looked over there.

Yeah, this is just revisionist history. The team isn't doing well, and there are certainly some bad decisions on contracts, but all Lou's moves haven't been terrible and he hasn't been terrible for years. This is just a poster acting like a Monday morning QB because the current product is awful. A lot of this onus has to fall on the players.

 

[Osakahaus]

Yeah, this is just revisionist history. The team isn't doing well, and there are certainly some bad decisions on contracts, but all Lou's moves haven't been terrible and he hasn't been terrible for years. This is just a poster acting like a Monday morning QB because the current product is awful. A lot of this onus has to fall on the players.

pretty much how I feel. Yes I dont feel happy with this season, but refer back to the point of free agents I made earlier. There aren't many new faces coming in, Lamoriello hasn't changed up the bottom 6, and their defense has been taking a beating all season long. This is the final product in a sense. This team needs a lot to change, or it just needs a new bottom 6 and a healthier D. however, even with a healthier D, we probably never see a return of what Pelech or Mayfield were before those injuries.

my issue here is that we have people who will say Lamoriello killed this team, when in reality he just mortgaged first round picks for proven players. I would still take Romanov over Nazar every day btw.

 

[periferal]

View attachment 825385
"I believe in this team"

Every day that passes with Lou on the job it's also Malkin saying, "I believe in this GM despite being bottom 10 in points and basically every single statistical category...And going to miss the playoffs for another year despite that GM being 'all in' all the time."

 

[Lights911]

Every day that passes with Lou on the job it's also Malkin saying, "I believe in this GM despite being bottom 10 in points and basically every single statistical category...And going to miss the playoffs for another year despite that GM being 'all in' all the time."

What?

 

[IslesNorway]

pretty much how I feel. Yes I dont feel happy with this season, but refer back to the point of free agents I made earlier. There aren't many new faces coming in, Lamoriello hasn't changed up the bottom 6, and their defense has been taking a beating all season long. This is the final product in a sense. This team needs a lot to change, or it just needs a new bottom 6 and a healthier D. however, even with a healthier D, we probably never see a return of what Pelech or Mayfield were before those injuries.

my issue here is that we have people who will say Lamoriello killed this team, when in reality he just mortgaged first round picks for proven players. I would still take Romanov over Nazar every day btw.

His problem is that he signed every one of those players AND every UFA to be to horribly long contracts. That is why there are no new faces coming in: no space on the roster or on the cap.

Lou has painted the whole franchise into a corner with his deals. All the players who count are on lengthy deals with NTCs making them virtually impossible to move. In the NHL, once a player signs a lengthy deal his value decreases tremendously due to future cap implications. Pageau as a UFA would net a good catch but on his current deal he is nearly at nothing. Lee has negative value but you'd get a fine return if he was UFA. Contracts matter a lot and longer is not better when it comes to roster structure. Lou has failed, completely, totally and utterly, on this and thus we are in the shit for a good few years after he is gone.

 

[BelovedIsles]

One can never know with Lou and his smug poker face (I also take what he says to the media with a grain of salt), but I suspect he stands pat, possibly sells off impending UFA's, begins re-tooling at the draft.

Moreover, he could always use the first to upgrade the roster for the short and long term, ala Romanov (wouldn't surprise me); if that were the case, I would be okay. No rentals though.

As a said a few days ago, will be a very interesting few months. Lol, he may not even be around.

 

[Isles72]

View attachment 825398

Bob says that the following have circled in on Nelson
-Rangers
-Vegas
-Toronto
-Edmonton
-Dallas

I would personally want Dallas. Give me their prospects. we need that jolt PRONTO.

Vegas throws picks and prospects around like its nobodys business .

whats left in their cupboard to blow Lou's socks off ?

 

[Strickland]

Yeah, this is just revisionist history. The team isn't doing well, and there are certainly some bad decisions on contracts, but all Lou's moves haven't been terrible and he hasn't been terrible for years. This is just a poster acting like a Monday morning QB because the current product is awful. A lot of this onus has to fall on the players.

His moves have all been terrible. Even the ones where the value wasn't bad, those are bad, too! He traded for Romanov and Horvat and mortgaged even more of the future for the present and the present stinks! He thought the team deserved going all in on and it didn't! That's an insanely bad choice and one that was obvious at the time.

You can go all the way back to his first few weeks here when he responded to JT leaving by offering grotesque 4 year deals to both Hickey and Komarov. Deals that were bad the moment they were announced. It was those deals, and the effect they had on the cap, that led to Toews for two seconds, one of the worst deals in Isles history.

Lou has been bad at his job. Pretty much from the get go. His years here look eerily similar to the last decade or so in Jersey. And those ended about as badly as any in recent history.

That's what's coming here. The only way to avoid that is to rip the heart out of this team NOW and do it fast. They won't do it. Lou will continue to be the GM an he will continue to believe in this team. And in the end it'll be us, the fans, who pay the price for that absurd belief.

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

I agree with your assessment of Nelson's value. The big problem is that the only "gymnastics" that would need to be performed would be getting Lou to actually trading AWAY a player of value as opposed to trading FOR one.

That is never happening so we will have to leave Nelson's supposed trade value to discussions on internet boards like this (while watching Nelson's trade full trade value window close with it ultimately slamming shut once Lou gives him a new 7 year deal a year from now).

Certainly, the post was only about Nelson's market value.

I mean, I'm glad to see that we aren't constantly all wearing blue and orange glasses, but a few of the suggestions around these parts (and even elsewhere) seemed to beg for a statement on market value.

As no less than you and I have already established, Lou's pattern as the NYI GM says he'll either buy (most of his time here) or he'll sit pat and do nothing (the season with Chara where we clearly were out of the running for a PO spot) at the trade deadline.

Doing anything else would be a first.

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

he didn't give us Sorokin. Snow did. Lou just signed him. Which you can give him credit for, but based on the contract seems like he was always gonna come over after the 2020 season and he could become an immediate RFA.

That was literally the hardest part.

All indications out of Sorokin's camp were that he wasn't coming over as things were at the time of Snow's departure.

The whole signing of Varly, with whom Sorokin shared an agent, was all part of the plan. It was puzzle that Lou had to orchestrate. Absolutely no guarantee anyone else could have done it.

This was actually one of Lou's biggest accomplishments as this team's GM.

***
And no-one should underestimate what Lou's reputation is among Russian players and their agents. He was one of the first to bring in the old stars after the fall of the wall (Fetisov and Kasatonov), constantly brought in prospects from Russia, and then even traded for and gave Kovalchuk a contract for the ages. He's basically their favorite NHL GM over there.