Line Combos: Roster Discussion/Line Combos

[koteka]

Like being a bad hockey team isn't necessarily an asset problem, the Jackets should already be exhibit A for that.

Our biggest asset problem is so may of the ones you would trade are wings. Nobody wants a bunch of wings in a trade.

I would rate tradable assets (excluding picks) like this (not really spending any time ranking guys within a group)

Fantilli - not going to be traded

Jiricek - not going to be traded

KJ
Boone

Marchenko
Mateychuk - unlikely to be traded
Chinakhov

Sillinger
Voronkov

Provorov at deadline with retention
Brindley

Dumais
Ceulemans
LDBB
Maletesta

Tex
Svozil

 

[Cowumbus]

Joe Pavelski turns 40 in July. Come on now lol.

??? He also has 11 more points than anyone on our team this year. He’s aged like fine wine.

Joe Pavelski’s last 3 deals have all been 2 years or less. On a 1 year deal for his current contract. Pavelski would have led our team in scoring the last 3 years. Averaged 77 points for the last 3 years…

Doesn’t matter, he wouldn’t sign here.

 

[cbjthrowaway]

We literally traded a 1st rounder to get Provorov last offseason, which was a (failed) attempt at patching holes. Trading a 1st is more valuable to a rebuilding team than Boone Jenner.

If we obtained Calum Ritchie for instance, I would keep him. You always need ELC impact players.

Example:
Jenner for 1st + Ritchie + 4th
I’m using the 1st (+ Cuelemans? plus whatever Provorov returns) to get another good defenseman. Then ‘replacing’ Jenner in UFA. Much easier to replace a middle 6 forward in UFA than it is an actual good top 4 D, IMO.

i'm a huge cal ritchie fan, i'd be all over that. here's my rough plan, which is similar to what you outlined.

1. provorov retained for a 1st
2. jenner for ritchie + 1st + 4th
3. cap dump LHD via trade (kulak, maata, etc.)
4. trade for reliable two-way forward from cap-strapped team (marchment, faksa, oshie)

could condense #3 and #4 into a single step with a big VGK trade for martinez + karlsson, where columbus sends back picks and young roster pieces (texier + boqvist/bean).

all that's left to do after that is address the goaltending situation. if you add two extra firsts, suddenly attaching a 3rd rounder to elvis to get him off the books is more palatable. which opens up room for discounted reclamation projects (spencer knight) or a big swing on someone like ullmark.

 

[stevo61]

We missed our opportunity to get a great leader with winning pedigree, and still effective - and he's a C.

Ryan O'Reilly.

He would have been a perfect pick up for this team.

He may not have been an option either. Shocker but people arent lining up to join the mighty Blue Jackets. Nashville was a 90 point team last year and he probably saw a more likely playoff team. Hes been through the losing in Buffalo and he didnt like it and almost lost his joy for hockey. Nashville also threw money at him

 

[koteka]

i'm a huge cal ritchie fan, i'd be all over that. here's my rough plan, which is similar to what you outlined.

1. provorov retained for a 1st
2. jenner for ritchie + 1st + 4th
3. cap dump LHD via trade (kulak, maata, etc.)
4. trade for reliable two-way forward from cap-strapped team (marchment, faksa, oshie)

could condense #3 and #4 into a single step with a big VGK trade for martinez + karlsson, where columbus sends back picks and young roster pieces (texier + boqvist/bean).

all that's left to do after that is address the goaltending situation. if you add two extra firsts, suddenly attaching a 3rd rounder to elvis to get him off the books is more palatable. which opens up room for discounted reclamation projects (spencer knight) or a big swing on someone like ullmark.

You, @Cowumbus , and I are on the same page. Maybe because we all like Calum Ritchie.

We could end up with Fantilli, Sillinger, Ritchie, and the 2nd best center in the 2024 draft plus Voronkov and all of a sudden look pretty good at center.

 

[DarkandStormy]

??? He also has 11 more points than anyone on our team this year. He’s aged like fine wine.

Joe Pavelski’s last 3 deals have all been 2 years or less. On a 1 year deal for his current contract. Pavelski would have led our team in scoring the last 3 years. Averaged 77 points for the last 3 years…

Doesn’t matter, he wouldn’t sign here.

Dallas averages nearly 0.75 goals more per game than Columbus.

The list of forwards in the history who've scored more than, say, 40 points in an NHL season over the age of 39 is not very long.

 

[Cowumbus]

Dallas averages nearly 0.75 goals more per game than Columbus.

The list of forwards in the history who've scored more than, say, 40 points in an NHL season over the age of 39 is not very long.

So? He scores 40 points here he’s still one of our highest…

Also, he doesn’t need to be. We have cap space and the deal would be for a year if I were in charge. Acquiring Pavelski was about more than points anyway.

@cbjthrowaway why do step 3 when you can save assets and get the LHD in FA or trade for a good D (non dump), rather than cap dump?

I don’t mind the VGK idea.

 

[thebus88]

He may not have been an option either. Shocker but people arent lining up to join the mighty Blue Jackets. Nashville was a 90 point team last year and he probably saw a more likely playoff team. Hes been through the losing in Buffalo and he didnt like it and almost lost his joy for hockey. Nashville also threw money at him

Most people wanting to keep Jenner around (for the right or wrong reasons) are completely removed from the idea that Jenner could WANT to be moved at this point, and while they bring up the potential impact on future “veterans” if he were to be moved, they also ignore how the players in the league could look at the CBJ organization for not moving a guy in his position/situation, in relation to the team.

Also to add, while it’s nice or ‘ok’ to look at individual players as possibilities, taking essentially nothing into account and looking at them like assets in an EA Sports video game, as if you can sign any guy you want and build your team in any way you’d like, is ridiculous. Blaming the GM for not bringing in guys that essentially won’t come to play for the CBJ makes no sense.

 

[thebus88]

Scott Laughton to “replace” or to “supplement” Jenner?

At some point, a trade or a CHANGE needs to be made. There’s going to be people who think we gave up the “superior” or “more skilled” player or players. Somebody that a big chunk of people will not want to see moved could be moved, IMO. We have the assets, but, the composition is ALL wrong, and as many “good pieces” we have contract/asset wise, we have just as many “bad pieces”, where a trade value sacrifice could be needed to be made.

The defense still isn’t built right, and it’s NOT set up to be built right in the future. Provorov and Boqvist are both unnecessary now and moving forward. Fans around here and Jarmo alike have quickly forgot about what was said about Peeke at times and his potential and who SHOULD have been playing alongside Werenski on the top pair. That said, it’s not Peeke, it’s not Severson, or Provorov, or Jiricek, Gudbranson, Bean….who? I’m not sure if I’m convinced it’s Mateychuk, or if it’s simply because he’s our only possible option. And at what point, as it is with Laine, do you blame the individual player for it being so hard to find players to play with them??

Jiricek/Sillinger (or even Johnson at this point) moved would not be the end of the world, depending on who we could get in return.

Call me crazy but with their styles of play and what they bring to the ice, Mateychuk, Severson, Bean would have me looking at offers for Werenski also.

 

[CBJ goalie]

He may not have been an option either. Shocker but people arent lining up to join the mighty Blue Jackets. Nashville was a 90 point team last year and he probably saw a more likely playoff team. Hes been through the losing in Buffalo and he didnt like it and almost lost his joy for hockey. Nashville also threw money at him

I very much agree, it takes two to want it.

I was just more curious if there was an attempt or interest.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

Most people wanting to keep Jenner around (for the right or wrong reasons) are completely removed from the idea that Jenner could WANT to be moved at this point, and while they bring up the potential impact on future “veterans” if he were to be moved, they also ignore how the players in the league could look at the CBJ organization for not moving a guy in his position/situation, in relation to the team.

Also to add, while it’s nice or ‘ok’ to look at individual players as possibilities, taking essentially nothing into account and looking at them like assets in an EA Sports video game, as if you can sign any guy you want and build your team in any way you’d like, is ridiculous. Blaming the GM for not bringing in guys that essentially won’t come to play for the CBJ makes no sense.

If Jenner wants to move on, that changes everything.

We have seen and heard nothing even close to that sort. So thinking that way seems like wasted time.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

 

[VT]

Do you really think Colorado would give up Calum Ritchie for Jenner? And a first round to? Colorado may want to get SC, but they aren't stupid enough to ruin their future.

I'll put it this way, it seems to me that he overrates our players. We could get 1st round for Jenner if teams will have its. Plus some average player due to the salary cap loosening and the 4rd round/average youngster or so. Certainly no more. And counting on getting someone after the season is not a good idea.
Veteran leaders are not easy to come by, if at all. They don't have wives, they don't want to work here. And not everyone has that view of young talent players. Why? Look at my first sentence in this paragraph.

 

[koteka]

Do you really think Colorado would give up Calum Ritchie for Jenner? And a first round to? Colorado may want to get SC, but they aren't stupid enough to ruin their future.

The whole discussion on trading Boone rests on getting a really good return. Like Calum Ritchie, a first, plus. I think I posted a proposal that included Ritchie, 2 firsts, plus - and us taking back RyJo.

 

[cbjthrowaway]

Most people wanting to keep Jenner around (for the right or wrong reasons) are completely removed from the idea that Jenner could WANT to be moved at this point,

the "but he has a limited NTC!" part of the jenner discourse is so funny to me.

the number one trait i want in a captain is "wants to win the stanley cup more than anything else" and if boone jenner has that in his DNA he wouldn't think twice about waiving his NTC to move to a contender.

@cbjthrowaway why do step 3 when you can save assets and get the LHD in FA or trade for a good D (non dump), rather than cap dump?

I don’t mind the VGK idea.

acquiring a cap dump defenseman via trade, compared to UFA:

• will have a more manageable AAV
• will have less term
• will have negligible cost (more below)
• will be easier to retain/flip than a recently-signed UFA
• won't have to be won via outbidding another team on contract terms
• could come with retention, driving the AAV down

re: negligible cost – if the jackets acquire, say, two firsts and a 4th from jenner and provorov, it's not a big deal to move a third or a B-tier prospect to get a similar player who provides more flexibility as an asset.

not that i'm opposed to getting a UFA defenseman, but the type of defenseman they're looking for may prefer to go ring chasing or cash in with a big payday, rather than being a guy with 1-3 years left who is getting squeezed out of another team's cap picture.

one example – granted it's with forwards rather than defensemen – is that last year kevin hayes got traded at 50% ($3.6m for 3 years) for basically nothing while jt compher got $5.1m x 5 years. hayes may be a slightly lesser player, but the contract is way more favorable. he's a more valuable asset, and the difference in value is more than what STL paid to get him (which, again, was basically nothing).

The whole discussion on trading Boone rests on getting a really good return. Like Calum Ritchie, a first, plus. I think I posted a proposal that included Ritchie, 2 firsts, plus - and us taking back RyJo.

people are gonna see that and be like "eww no we don't want johansen" but he's already retained down to $4m – they could hold him for a bit, the flip him retained down to $2m and probably net another first.

 

[squashmaple]

I think sometimes most of you would never be happier than in the first stages of a tear-down rebuild. Trade everyone! Over the age of 19? Go to hell and get off this roster! Already been drafted? Ugh, you have no place here. 2025 draftees only!

 

[majormajor]

the "but he has a limited NTC!" part of the jenner discourse is so funny to me.

the number one trait i want in a captain is "wants to win the stanley cup more than anything else" and if boone jenner has that in his DNA he wouldn't think twice about waiving his NTC to move to a contender.

I'm going to call this the "mid" or "assisted" form of competitiveness. Where you want to win so bad you hope to go to a team where winning is easy. I think if you really got that dog in you, you want to win each and every game on the team you're on, you're not asking for an easier job.

one example – granted it's with forwards rather than defensemen – is that last year kevin hayes got traded at 50% ($3.6m for 3 years) for basically nothing while jt compher got $5.1m x 5 years. hayes may be a slightly lesser player, but the contract is way more favorable. he's a more valuable asset, and the difference in value is more than what STL paid to get him (which, again, was basically nothing).

I'm not really following the general discussion between you two but I'll dispute that Compher is only slightly better player than Hayes. I think he is a significantly better player, well worth the difference in contract. A collection of cheap deals is not as important as getting the right players.

 

[VT]

The whole discussion on trading Boone rests on getting a really good return. Like Calum Ritchie, a first, plus. I think I posted a proposal that included Ritchie, 2 firsts, plus - and us taking back RyJo.

But it must be a realistic good return and not what you want. In addition, to get Johansen... wouldn't be too ideal for the team, would it?

I think sometimes most of you would never be happier than in the first stages of a tear-down rebuild. Trade everyone! Over the age of 19? Go to hell and get off this roster! Already been drafted? Ugh, you have no place here. 2025 draftees only!

We will have to replace someone, we have too many youngsters and not all of them are as good as we think. But we have to be careful not to ruin the rebuild. Gaudreau's signing has already disrupted it enough, or so I think. Bjorkie would have been more ideal. I won't mention Nyquist, I don't know if he'd want to extend to play here for a lower contract, but he was also an ideal player.

 

[thebus88]

If Jenner wants to move on, that changes everything.

We have seen and heard nothing even close to that sort. So thinking that way seems like wasted time.

When it comes to the CBJ, the front office/management, the coaches, or “superstars” of the team, the only people/group that should be looked at or rated as WORSE are the journalists and broadcast team that covers these guys.

We don’t “see” or “hear” ANYTHING regarding the biggest stories involving the team until WELL after the fact almost always.

“Wasted time” like everything else that’s becomes TRUTH.

Where are we on Elvis and Patty Laine again? Lots of “wasted time” there too, eh?

 

[koteka]

When it comes to the CBJ, the front office/management, the coaches, or “superstars” of the team, the only people/group that should be looked at or rated as WORSE are the journalists and broadcast team that covers these guys.

The big CBJ media story this week - Will there be a game at Ohio Stadium in 2025 or not? I wouldn’t be surprised if everyone in the media is wrong and the real story is the OSU football team will play an arena league type scrimmage at Nationwide Arena.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

When it comes to the CBJ, the front office/management, the coaches, or “superstars” of the team, the only people/group that should be looked at or rated as WORSE are the journalists and broadcast team that covers these guys.

We don’t “see” or “hear” ANYTHING regarding the biggest stories involving the team until WELL after the fact almost always.

“Wasted time” like everything else that’s becomes TRUTH.

Where are we on Elvis and Patty Laine again? Lots of “wasted time” there too, eh?

what are you even complaining about

 

[stevo61]

what are you even complaining about

Probably comes back to Larsen's practices not being the issue or something

 

[thebus88]

what are you even complaining about

Probably comes back to Larsen's practices not being the issue or something

I mean, that’s ironically and/or symbolically actually the issue. Gudbranson quite literally was signaling there was/is a legit problem with the TEAM in a VERY unique way, and people jumped all over the idea that Larsen had been hired as a head coach after YEARS of SUCCESS within the organization and yet somehow didn’t know how to run a hockey practice. And the fats on here and the “professionals” had nothing to question, as always.

We hear nothing about anything important regarding the team until after it’s well into existence and an actual issue or extremely impactful. Yes or no?

What I’m currently complaining about is that someone is attempting to dismiss or discredit my opinion because Aaron Portzline or Mark Scheig hasn’t already thought about it.

 

[Marioesque]

Gudbranson quite literally was signaling there was/is a legit problem with the TEAM in a VERY unique way

Can you remind us all what these signals were? With a source.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

What I’m currently complaining about is that someone is attempting to dismiss or discredit my opinion because Aaron Portzline or Mark Scheig hasn’t already thought about it.

Nobody is doing that.

Your initial post was wondering out loud whether or not Jenner wants out or not. I replied that there are currently no signs of that whether that be from media reports or his on ice play.

Now we’re here.

And your point of “we don’t know these things until way in advance” yes, that is true sometimes (Rick Nash). But it’s also not sometimes (IE Jones, Torts, and PLD)

Your overly aggressive defensive/offensive stances do more to discredit your opinion than media reports do. And that’s not meant as an insult.