Line Combos: Roster Discussion/Line Combos

[Crede777]

The Jackets need to stand pat this year. Unless a guy asks out or is on an expiring contract, just ride the rest of the season out and be quiet over the summer. Draft BPA wherever they're picking.

Lack of roster and coaching consistency is a major issue for this team. Let this squad get comfortable playing together in Vincent's system. Then evaluate if a major change is needed.

 

[majormajor]

The Jackets need to stand pat this year. Unless a guy asks out or is on an expiring contract, just ride the rest of the season out and be quiet over the summer. Draft BPA wherever they're picking.

Lack of roster and coaching consistency is a major issue for this team. Let this squad get comfortable playing together in Vincent's system. Then evaluate if a major change is needed.

We've already had too much turnover. Most of our improvements in the next couple years (provided we don't go wild with turnover again) might be coming from guys getting used to each other and developing trust. We'll have to shed a few players just for roster space reasons, but I hope we can keep those moves to the least important or least solid players.

 

[koteka]

I hope we can keep those moves to the least important or least solid players.

I hope we figure out who those players are before it is obvious to everyone and we have a bunch of guys who have no value and negative like Peeke, Foudy, etc.

 

[majormajor]

I hope we figure out who those players are before it is obvious to everyone and we have a bunch of guys who have no value and negative like Peeke, Foudy, etc.

Sure, but that's small change in the context of what we were talking about.

 

[koteka]

Sure, but that's small change in the context of what we were talking about.

Old Jarmo used to trade prospects and made the team better. Recent Jarmo has held on to prospects even if we have too many guys playing the same position. Then it turns out some of the prospects aren’t very good and he loses them for nothing or is stuck with them forever.

This franchise has a large number of talented young wings and wing prospects. Jarmo or whomever needs to trade the right ones soon to shore up the other parts of the team that are lacking. Holding on to them all to see who is the best is (a) a waste of resources and (b) lets the other parts of the team that aren’t good fester. If you have Brindley ahead of Malatesta, move Malatesta now. Don’t wait.

 

[majormajor]

Old Jarmo used to trade prospects and made the team better. Recent Jarmo has held on to prospects even if we have too many guys playing the same position. Then it turns out some of the prospects aren’t very good and he loses them for nothing or is stuck with them forever.

This franchise has a large number of talented young wings and wing prospects. Jarmo or whomever needs to trade the right ones soon to shore up the other parts of the team that are lacking. Holding on to them all to see who is the best is (a) a waste of resources and (b) lets the other parts of the team that aren’t good fester. If you have Brindley ahead of Malatesta, move Malatesta now. Don’t wait.

What if you don't know how good they'll be five years down the road?

 

[stevo61]

What if you don't know how good they'll be five years down the road?

we need something to complain about

 

[stevo61]

Trading prospects for the sake of trading them now would be the most ridiculous timing unless its a clear cant miss upgrade. Otherwise trading guys now is negligent. Look at Chinakhov's game even over a couple months, the same people crying for trades would be calling for Jarmo's head if we sent him away. If this team came out guns blazing next year like NJ and they want to go make their Meier trade than be my guest but sending people out the door to try and prevent being disappointed in them is hilarious

 

[koteka]

What if you don't know how good they'll be five years down the road?

That’s the job of the GM. See a few years ahead. Build a team. Move assets that don’t fit before they lose their value. If you are afraid to make the wrong move, you are not cut out to be a GM. We are not running Gaudreau, Brindley, Dumais, and Malatesta as 4 of top 6 wings in a couple of years. So make your choice and move someone as part of a package to fill a need, or for picks which are fungible assets.

Lets say we move Malatesta for a 2026 2nd. Not a bad return for a 5th round pick. Then we get to the summer of 2027 and Pittsburgh is in super tank mode and the Jackets are looking promising except a couple of bad contracts. Then we have assets to move a guy like Severson to the tanking Penguins. They want picks and young prospects. Hey, we have some good young prospects with lots of team control because we made some moves back in 2024 instead of waiting because we were afraid to look into the crystal ball. If Malatesta goes on to have a fine NHL career, good for him.

 

[stevo61]

That’s the job of the GM. See a few years ahead. Build a team. Move assets that don’t fit before they lose their value. If you are afraid to make the wrong move, you are not cut out to be a GM. We are not running Gaudreau, Brindley, Dumais, and Malatesta as 4 of top 6 wings in a couple of years. So make your choice and move someone as part of a package to fill a need, or for picks which are fungible assets.

Lets say we move Malatesta for a 2026 2nd. Not a bad return for a 5th round pick. Then we get to the summer of 2027 and Pittsburgh is in super tank mode and the Jackets are looking promising except a couple of bad contracts. Then we have assets to move a guy like Severson to the tanking Penguins. They want picks and young prospects. Hey, we have some good young prospects with lots of team control because we made some moves back in 2024 instead of waiting because we were afraid to look into the crystal ball. If Malatesta goes on to have a fine NHL career, good for him.

The issue here is why are you evaulating Malatesta with those guys? His potential is energy depth guy that could chip in some goals.
Trading a former 5th rounder for a 2nd rounder could be a win on paper at the time of the trade, there is still the matter of developing that player you draft in the 2nd.

 

[koteka]

Trading a former 5th rounder for a 2nd rounder could be a win on paper at the time of the trade, there is still the matter of developing that player you draft in the 2nd.

Or maybe a new GM comes in and decides to give Elvis one more try. And it doesn’t work. You use the 2nd round pick next summer to help trade the last 2 years of Elvis.

I’d like some more 25 or 26 assets because we have several guys playing below their contracts. We might eventually need to move some guys if this team starts getting better.

 

[Crede777]

From Friedman's 32 Thoughts today:

9. That brings us to Scott Laughton. The first-rounders going for rental centres have GMs thinking. If you’re Pat Verbeek (Adam Henrique), you’re smiling at the market, with several teams looking for middlemen. (The Rangers are looking for two of them. Going to be watching Tyler Johnson, now off injured reserve.) What that’s also done is bring out the managers who have a centre with term. Those include Nic Dowd and Laughton. The latter’s down three minutes a game from last year, and is at his lowest playing time in four seasons. If that’s the future, a move is better for everyone. I would expect teams to call on Boone Jenner, for the same reason. But he’s got a partial no-trade and you can’t see Columbus doing it without a massive return.

10. There was a short explosion around his AHL demotion, but the Blue Jackets made it verrrrrrrry clear they are not moving David Jiricek. They see the potential — and so does everyone else.

32 Thoughts: Where will the Coyotes call home after Mullett Arena?

In his latest thoughts, Elliotte Friedman writes about where we stand with the Arizona Coyotes' arena situation; the developing trade market for centres; which goalies to watch; and more.

www.sportsnet.ca

 

[Viqsi]

From Friedman's 32 Thoughts today:

32 Thoughts: Where will the Coyotes call home after Mullett Arena?

In his latest thoughts, Elliotte Friedman writes about where we stand with the Arizona Coyotes' arena situation; the developing trade market for centres; which goalies to watch; and more.

www.sportsnet.ca

This is why I like Friedman. Everyone else tries to feed the circling vultures but he pays attention to the blatantly obvious around here and is honest about it.

 

[VT]

In short. Jenner will only be traded if he wants it himself, the offer must be excellent but realistic at the same time. Of course, the focus will (or at least should) be on whether we can get a quality player in pre-season, either in a trade or by signing an experienced leader who is also a quality player, rather than a 4th line level player.

Jiříček has to realize that Boqvist, who is better than David now, had to fight his spot as well, including on the PP. And not cry about how he's an NHL player, but one doesn't play.

 

[majormajor]

Jiříček has to realize that Boqvist, who is better than David now, had to fight his spot as well, including on the PP. And not cry about how he's an NHL player, but one doesn't play.

On the contrary, in Boqvist's first three years in the league he was not NHL caliber. He was gifted the job based on draft pedigree. Not the best example.

But I do think about all the players that really did have to earn their jobs, some of them not making it until they were well into their 20s. A lot of players and coaches like that around the league, and you can bet they get pissed when they hear entitled attitudes like that from Jiricek.

 

[Viqsi]

On a completely unrelated note, due to some late-night imagining keeping me from sleeping and some followup quick and dirty number gathering, I have come to the conclusion that if we merely stopped blowing third period leads and/or ties, we'd have roughly another 20 points or so and likely be in playoff position - potentially #2 in the Metro.

What I wrote down, skimming through boxscores (result format is "what could have been"->"what happened"):
@ BUF 20230930 W->L
@ MTL 20231026 W->OTL
@ DAL 20231030 OTL->L
@ FLA 20231106 W->OTL
@ NYR 20231112 W->OTL
PIT 20231114 OTL->L
ARI 20231116 OTL->L
ANA 20231124 W->OTL
@ CAR 20231126 W->L
MTL 20231129 OTL->L
@ BOS 20231203 W->L
LAK 20231205 W->OTL
@ NJD 20231227 W->OTL
@ BUF 20231230 W->OTL
MIN 20240106 W->OTL
@ EDM 20240123 OTL->L
@ VAN 20240127 W->OTL

The range is 16 on the low end (ignoring all draws) and 25 on the high end (assuming all draws would lead to a W or OTW instead of an OTL). In two cases I also put in presumed "wins" lost in the 3rd period when we went into the 3rd tied but scored scored in the 3rd, and then gave up another goal late to lose in OT anyways.

Interestingly, we've lost in regulation because of a 3rd period collapse only three times. I would have sworn there were so many, many more than that.

 

[Jovavic]

You have a preseason game in your list

 

[VT]

On the contrary, in Boqvist's first three years in the league he was not NHL caliber. He was gifted the job based on draft pedigree. Not the best example.

But I do think about all the players that really did have to earn their jobs, some of them not making it until they were well into their 20s. A lot of players and coaches like that around the league, and you can bet they get pissed when they hear entitled attitudes like that from Jiricek.

Boqvist played in Chicago in that seasons (I think only two and not three). Now he's playing here.

Btw, it would be ironic if we traded him when we brought him up. Adam not only maintained his offensive skills, but also improved his defense, play without the puck, and proved to be an ideal partner for Werenski.

So we finally have healthy Boqvist who is finally starting to show his potential, Severson, and now Jiricek who will grow and soon be ready to play in the NHL. Giving away Gudbranson? Not only does he have a different role but leadership skills too. After all, let's not forget about Blankenburg, who is a NHL player. And not even the fact that they want to trade Peeke.

Hmm, now what?

 

[Cheddarcheese]

On a completely unrelated note, due to some late-night imagining keeping me from sleeping and some followup quick and dirty number gathering, I have come to the conclusion that if we merely stopped blowing third period leads and/or ties, we'd have roughly another 20 points or so and likely be in playoff position - potentially #2 in the Metro.

What I wrote down, skimming through boxscores (result format is "what could have been"->"what happened"):
@ BUF 20230930 W->L
@ MTL 20231026 W->OTL
@ DAL 20231030 OTL->L
@ FLA 20231106 W->OTL
@ NYR 20231112 W->OTL
PIT 20231114 OTL->L
ARI 20231116 OTL->L
ANA 20231124 W->OTL
@ CAR 20231126 W->L
MTL 20231129 OTL->L
@ BOS 20231203 W->L
LAK 20231205 W->OTL
@ NJD 20231227 W->OTL
@ BUF 20231230 W->OTL
MIN 20240106 W->OTL
@ EDM 20240123 OTL->L
@ VAN 20240127 W->OTL

The range is 16 on the low end (ignoring all draws) and 25 on the high end (assuming all draws would lead to a W or OTW instead of an OTL). In two cases I also put in presumed "wins" lost in the 3rd period when we went into the 3rd tied but scored scored in the 3rd, and then gave up another goal late to lose in OT anyways.

Interestingly, we've lost in regulation because of a 3rd period collapse only three times. I would have sworn there were so many, many more than that.

I've been saying this for weeks. we are there we have the talent we just need to mature. we are doing all this without Laine and Johnny hockey playing the way he can . this team is good enough and is only going to get better

 

[koteka]

On a completely unrelated note, due to some late-night imagining keeping me from sleeping and some followup quick and dirty number gathering, I have come to the conclusion that if we merely stopped blowing third period leads and/or ties, we'd have roughly another 20 points or so and likely be in playoff position - potentially #2 in the Metro.

The question is how do we do that. We don’t have a good goalie. We don’t have defensive D. We really aren’t a team built to hold leads.

Years ago after Steve Mason letting in the losing goal at the end of the game, I was talking to a friend who knows way more about hockey than I ever will. He was a Day 1 STH and had been there live to watch while I just witnessed it on TV. I expressed my frustration. And he explained the Jackets to me as

Other teams see the Jackets as an easy win
They don’t play very hard
The Jackets can stay close or get early leads in games
Other teams turn up the intensity as the games go on and the Jackets can’t keep up
The other team wins
Towards the end of the season other teams start their back up goalies against the Jackets
The Jackets win games they shouldnt
The Jackets end up with a worse draft pick than they should have had

Other than a few really fun seasons under Torts, this is pretty much the story of the Jackets. This season might be an extreme example.

 

[koteka]

@Viqsi if you want a more positive response to your analysis, look at Vancouver last season vs this season. Several articles have been written about them blowing multi goal leads last season. Here is one from Dec talking about the turnaround.

The Canucks Ability to Hold Onto Leads This Season

The Vancouver Canucks are holding onto leads much better this season and that is a reason why they are having success.

lastwordonsports.com

 

[Cowumbus]

The Jackets need to stand pat this year. Unless a guy asks out or is on an expiring contract, just ride the rest of the season out and be quiet over the summer. Draft BPA wherever they're picking.

Lack of roster and coaching consistency is a major issue for this team. Let this squad get comfortable playing together in Vincent's system. Then evaluate if a major change is needed.

So bring back the same team that is going to finish bottom 5? Take another year to evaluate and make a decision? So if next year doesn’t go well it’s another lost year?

 

[Cowumbus]

On a completely unrelated note, due to some late-night imagining keeping me from sleeping and some followup quick and dirty number gathering, I have come to the conclusion that if we merely stopped blowing third period leads and/or ties, we'd have roughly another 20 points or so and likely be in playoff position - potentially #2 in the Metro.

Which is why I want the Jackets to go after an actual defender. @majormajor suggested it before, but someone like Brenden Dillon would be a good choice. Try to move Provorov and maybe do as @cbjthrowaway suggested and get a cap dump defenseman back to battle Bean/Mateychuk/Svozil for the bottom pair….
Werenski - Dillon - Maata isn’t the worst left side.

Or try to get Byram from the Avs in a Jenner trade

 

[stevo61]

Remember when NJ traded Sharangovich+3rd for Toffoli to get better and more experienced? Now Sharangovich is an exciting young player producing at the same level Toffoli is while not being a UFA. Cant win them all but still need to be careful

 

[squashmaple]

Remember when NJ traded Sharangovich+3rd for Toffoli to get better and more experienced? Now Sharangovich is an exciting young player producing at the same level Toffoli is while not being a UFA

But I thought Tom Fitzgerald was a perfect master tactician, what do you mean? Devils fans spent the past year and a half boasting they had the smartest FO and best team in the league.