Line Combos: Roster Discussion/Line Combos

[EspenK]

So if Jenner is the be all and end all of leaders why do the Jackets suck? Asking for a friend.

 

[NotCommitted]

So if Jenner is the be all and end all of leaders why do the Jackets suck? Asking for a friend.

Maybe it's a team game, or maybe he's just a bad leader. Or both. Who knows?

 

[Cheddarcheese]

seeing the two deals for center this weekend realistically what would jenner bring ?
2 1st round picks ? and a+ grade prospect ?

i know this up coming draft is weak but is next years weak ?

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

So if Jenner is the be all and end all of leaders why do the Jackets suck? Asking for a friend.

I'm not seeing anyone suggesting this. What I'm seeing is that a very young team, with a lot of first-pro-contract players, has a better chance of growing into a group of productive players (i.e. a good team) if there is someone around to provide an example of what goes into becoming a productive player. Boone is definitely that. It's why, despite the fact I have been questioning Boone's leadership/captaincy, I have not been on here advocating trading him.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

So if Jenner is the be all and end all of leaders why do the Jackets suck? Asking for a friend.

I view Jenner as Captain by default. Who else would you choose on the current roster?

By all accounts (Torts/former teammates) Jenner is a pack your lunch bucket, show up to work each day and give 100%-the leader by example type. He's certainly not a rah rah type and doesn't exude much personality and is way too low key for my taste in leadership. But, once again, who do you replace him with on the current roster?

Fantilli would be my pick to succeed Boone. When would the best timing be for him to assume the Captaincy (assuming that my impression of him as a leader is correct)? I don't know. If there is massive change in management in the off season, he may get the "C" as early as next season. Or there could be a trade/signing which would bring in another potential Captain.

But for the time being, BJ is the appropriate leader of the BJs. Had to type that.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

I view Jenner as Captain by default. Who else would you choose on the current roster?

By all accounts (Torts/former teammates) Jenner is a pack your lunch bucket, show up to work each day and give 100%-the leader by example type. He's certainly not a rah rah type and doesn't exude much personality and is way too low key for my taste in leadership. But, once again, who do you replace him with on the current roster?

Fantilli would be my pick to succeed Boone. When would the best timing be for him to assume the Captaincy (assuming that my impression of him as a leader is correct)? I don't know. If there is massive change in management in the off season, he may get the "C" as early as next season. Or there could be a trade/signing which would bring in another potential Captain.

But for the time being, BJ is the appropriate leader of the BJs. Had to type that.

Captain Boone Jenner

 

[cslebn]

The short version is that on HFAvs (on all team boards, actually) it's at their discretion, but outside of that, it's a no-no without admin vetting, and that one isn't admin vetted.

Yes, that means that technically we could have non-vetted folks here at HFCBJ chatting about such things so long as it doesn't spread beyond that. In practice, I think it causes too many issues elsewhere (blame my short stint modding TR&FA, if you want to blame something specific) and so I personally insist on admin vetting. I don't get to tell HFAvs how to run their shop, tho.

Thanks

 

[Cowumbus]

He probably wouldn’t ever sign here but if you could trade Boone and sign Pavelski in UFA, I think that would be a good leadership swap.

Monahan could also be a cheaper more realistic UFA leadership choice.

If the swap was 2024 1st + A Prospect + pick + Monahan (UFA) for Jenner I think that might be worth it. Especially if you can use the 2024 1st to acquire another proven player (preferably on defense, assuming Provorov is traded).

I know he’s a winger, but I’d even be interested in seeing what Reilly Smith would cost from Pitt. He cost Pitt a 3rd to acquire, does Roslovic + Cuelemans get it done? Not sure. Would be some insurance before Brindley is ready. Might need to move Laine at that point though.

Hypothetical:

Gaudreau Fantilli Marchenko
Johnson Monahan Voronkov
Chinakhov Sillinger Smith
Texier Kuraly Danforth

Doesn’t look that bad to me (I tried to balance the lines).

 

[Viqsi]

He probably wouldn’t ever sign here but if you could trade Boone and sign Pavelski in UFA, I think that would be a good leadership swap.

Monahan could also be a cheaper more realistic UFA leadership choice.

If the swap was 2024 1st + A Prospect + pick + Monahan (UFA) for Jenner I think that might be worth it. Especially if you can use the 2024 1st to acquire another proven player (preferably on defense, assuming Provorov is traded).

I know he’s a winger, but I’d even be interested in seeing what Reilly Smith would cost from Pitt. He cost Pitt a 3rd to acquire, does Roslovic + Cuelemans get it done? Not sure. Would be some insurance before Brindley is ready. Might need to move Laine at that point though.

Hypothetical:

Gaudreau Fantilli Marchenko
Johnson Monahan Voronkov
Chinakhov Sillinger Smith
Texier Kuraly Danforth

Doesn’t look that bad to me (I tried to balance the lines).

Monahan does not impress me as a potential mentor any more than, say, Duchene would.

 

[VT]

He probably wouldn’t ever sign here but if you could trade Boone and sign Pavelski in UFA, I think that would be a good leadership swap.

Monahan could also be a cheaper more realistic UFA leadership choice.

If the swap was 2024 1st + A Prospect + pick + Monahan (UFA) for Jenner I think that might be worth it. Especially if you can use the 2024 1st to acquire another proven player (preferably on defense, assuming Provorov is traded).

I know he’s a winger, but I’d even be interested in seeing what Reilly Smith would cost from Pitt. He cost Pitt a 3rd to acquire, does Roslovic + Cuelemans get it done? Not sure. Would be some insurance before Brindley is ready. Might need to move Laine at that point though.

Hypothetical:

Gaudreau Fantilli Marchenko
Johnson Monahan Voronkov
Chinakhov Sillinger Smith
Texier Kuraly Danforth

Doesn’t look that bad to me (I tried to balance the lines).

Pán Boh zavaruj a zlé preč.

 

[Cowumbus]

Monahan does not impress me as a potential mentor any more than, say, Duchene would.

So do you agree on Pavelski?

Monahan has been a captain everywhere he’s gone, but ok. You can go all the way back to his draft profile and find work ethic and leadership as strengths. Help me to understand why you are comparing a guy who has battled back from two hip surgeries to play at a high level this year (and earn a trade to a contender at the TDL 1st + 3rd) to Duchene (a 55+ point player) who was so bad of a locker room cancer that Trotz bought him out with 3 more years left? Keep in mind, Monahan also was able to learn from a great captain - Giordano. Can you provide justification as to why Jenner is a much better mentor? Assuming you can, at what point does the difference in leadership/mentoring become overlooked given a valuable return in a trade? 2 1st you’re willing to take Monahan instead of Jenner? 3 1sts? Is there no limit?

I think a slower 2 way forward that had success in the NHL, would be great mentor for someone like Johnson.

Pán Boh zavaruj a zlé preč.

skús sa uvoľniť

 

[cslebn]

Random thought bouncing around my head.

We've got lots of wings and could use a little Dubi 2.0. So I was trying to think who's like Dubi and isn't mid 30s already. And I came up with Hertl. So I was wondering if something around a Laine for Hertl swap could be built. SJ is just starting their rebuild, Laine is 5 years younger and on contract for 3 years less. He can either bridge to the next core or fit the next core better. Probably need some balance (maybe a center).

Thoughts?

 

[Cowumbus]

Random thought bouncing around my head.

We've got lots of wings and could use a little Dubi 2.0. So I was trying to think who's like Dubi and isn't mid 30s already. And I came up with Hertl. So I was wondering if something around a Laine for Hertl swap could be built. SJ is just starting their rebuild, Laine is 5 years younger and on contract for 3 years less. He can either bridge to the next core or fit the next core better. Probably need some balance (maybe a center).

Thoughts?

Hertl at 8+ million until age 37 seems like not a very good idea to me. Way too much money IMO. I think Laine is more valuable than that contract.

A *healthy* Couture on the other hand…
Sadly I don’t think he’s going to be the same.

 

[majormajor]

Random thought bouncing around my head.

We've got lots of wings and could use a little Dubi 2.0. So I was trying to think who's like Dubi and isn't mid 30s already. And I came up with Hertl. So I was wondering if something around a Laine for Hertl swap could be built. SJ is just starting their rebuild, Laine is 5 years younger and on contract for 3 years less. He can either bridge to the next core or fit the next core better. Probably need some balance (maybe a center).

Thoughts?

I don't know much about Hertl's leadership - is he known as a very vocal leader?

I'd rather have Hertl than Laine right now but I think we'll be able to unload Laine's deal this summer without taking back Hertl's contract, I'd rather not have either one.

 

[majormajor]

So do you agree on Pavelski?

Monahan has been a captain everywhere he’s gone, but ok. You can go all the way back to his draft profile and find work ethic and leadership as strengths. Help me to understand why you are comparing a guy who has battled back from two hip surgeries to play at a high level this year (and earn a trade to a contender at the TDL 1st + 3rd) to Duchene (a 55+ point player) who was so bad of a locker room cancer that Trotz bought him out with 3 more years left? Keep in mind, Monahan also was able to learn from a great captain - Giordano. Can you provide justification as to why Jenner is a much better mentor? Assuming you can, at what point does the difference in leadership/mentoring become overlooked given a valuable return in a trade? 2 1st you’re willing to take Monahan instead of Jenner? 3 1sts? Is there no limit?

I think a slower 2 way forward that had success in the NHL, would be great mentor for someone like Johnson.


skús sa uvoľniť

I wouldn't compare Monahan to Duchene, but he's not usually been much of a two way player, and kind of a soft player at times, perhaps because of his injuries. He's not tough like Boone. I see him as somewhat of a marginal upgrade on having Voronkov as 2C. Maybe a downgrade actually, he has a lower scoring rate at 5v5, lower than Sillinger as well. He's mostly been dependent on the PP.

 

[Cowumbus]

I wouldn't compare Monahan to Duchene, but he's not usually been much of a two way player, and kind of a soft player at times, perhaps because of his injuries. He's not tough like Boone. I see him as somewhat of a marginal upgrade on having Voronkov as 2C. Maybe a downgrade actually, he has a lower scoring rate at 5v5, lower than Sillinger as well. He's mostly been dependent on the PP.

Idk man, he’s gotten Selke votes at least - gets a lot of takeaways. I’m not trying to statistically upgrade on Jenner with Monahan. Neither are long term C here. Heck, Monahan can play LW for all I care. I’m saying the franchise might be better off with 2024 1st + A prospect + secondary asset AND UFA Monahan as a replacement for the veteran leadership lost moving Boone, rather than having Boone here for 2.5 years. Everyone wants for this team to be better. Well maybe trading Boone, using the assets to fix other holes, and being smart in UFA can lead us towards being competitive sooner.

Who knows, maybe he even helps the PP

I like Jenner and would be fine with him being a CBJ lifer, but I think the conversation around moving him makes some sense to (at least) explore.

 

[VT]

skús sa uvoľniť

A little bit more, and you can take a state exam in Slovak. Because even the sentence structure and inflection are correct.

 

[VT]

I don't know much about Hertl's leadership - is he known as a very vocal leader?

I'd rather have Hertl than Laine right now but I think we'll be able to unload Laine's deal this summer without taking back Hertl's contract, I'd rather not have either one.

Now nobody gives up Laine for more than a 2nd round and an average player and even in this I 'm not sure.

Hertl is not a leader as we need and honestly, I don't see who he could be. So either he relies on internal sources (Gudbranson, Sillinger, Fantilli) or we keep Boone. Further, if we want the first round, we need to trade him to a contender, or at least a team to think it. Otherwise we won't get more than the second round and an average player/the 3rd round.

 

[majormajor]

Idk man, he’s gotten Selke votes at least - gets a lot of takeaways. I’m not trying to statistically upgrade on Jenner with Monahan. Neither are long term C here. Heck, Monahan can play LW for all I care. I’m saying the franchise might be better off with 2024 1st + A prospect + secondary asset AND UFA Monahan as a replacement for the veteran leadership lost moving Boone, rather than having Boone here for 2.5 years. Everyone wants for this team to be better. Well maybe trading Boone, using the assets to fix other holes, and being smart in UFA can lead us towards being competitive sooner.

Who knows, maybe he even helps the PP

I like Jenner and would be fine with him being a CBJ lifer, but I think the conversation around moving him makes some sense to (at least) explore.

I would consider other moves if we can get an appropriate contract with someone in UFA. Maybe we can get a deal on a Lindholm-Gaudreau reunion, or maybe a Monahan reunion (I would be less enthused). Maybe we luck out with a Reinhart or Pavelski. But I don't want to sell on Boone and then go into UFA desperate to patch a hole in our leadership, and then oh shit we just paid Monahan a 6 x 6.

"Using assets to fix other holes" - what did you have in mind? I'm not seeing how we use the assets. It seems like we already have a lot of this level of asset - numerous high performing prospects, more than we could ever roster. Could we use some of them instead? Like being a bad hockey team isn't necessarily an asset problem, the Jackets should already be exhibit A for that.

 

[Cheddarcheese]

I would consider other moves if we can get an appropriate contract with someone in UFA. Maybe we can get a deal on a Lindholm-Gaudreau reunion, or maybe a Monahan reunion (I would be less enthused). Maybe we luck out with a Reinhart or Pavelski. But I don't want to sell on Boone and then go into UFA desperate to patch a hole in our leadership, and then oh shit we just paid Monahan a 6 x 6.

"Using assets to fix other holes" - what did you have in mind? I'm not seeing how we use the assets. It seems like we already have a lot of this level of asset - numerous high performing prospects, more than we could ever roster. Could we use some of them instead? Like being a bad hockey team isn't necessarily an asset problem, the Jackets should already be exhibit A for that.

with the amount of talent we have on this team. this team needs to make a big splash in the off season IMHO. package a few of our talented guys and picks and get a Brady T ( maybe he gets sick of losing ? this is a reach ), mittelstadt or konecny i truely believe were one really good player/ leader away from being a top team for a long time

ps wow i cant believe hertl is 30 lmao wtf

 

[CBJWerenski8]

He probably wouldn’t ever sign here but if you could trade Boone and sign Pavelski in UFA, I think that would be a good leadership swap.

I do recall reports saying the Jackets gave him a call after he left San Jose. He respectfully said no and didn’t want to leave the western conference. So I imagine that won’t be any different.

I only remember this because I wanted us to sign him then.

 

[CBJ goalie]

We missed our opportunity to get a great leader with winning pedigree, and still effective - and he's a C.

Ryan O'Reilly.

He would have been a perfect pick up for this team.

 

[DarkandStormy]

Joe Pavelski turns 40 in July. Come on now lol.

Anyway, OT... is Pavelski a Hall of Famer? Never finished in the top 5 for any major award. Almost never considered the best forward on any team he played for (you could argue Dallas a couple of the years, I guess). Never scored more than a point per game in any season.

Yet he's at 1,300 career games and 1,044 points. 97 players have hit 1,000 points for their career. Only about 16-17 aren't in the Hall of Fame (among those eligible, still quite a few who are active).

 

[CBJWerenski8]

We missed our opportunity to get a great leader with winning pedigree, and still effective - and he's a C.

Ryan O'Reilly.

He would have been a perfect pick up for this team.

Yes

We also have a guy who plays just like he does (not as good offensively though) and people are advocating for trading him.

 

[Cowumbus]

"Using assets to fix other holes" - what did you have in mind? I'm not seeing how we use the assets. It seems like we already have a lot of this level of asset - numerous high performing prospects, more than we could ever roster. Could we use some of them instead? Like being a bad hockey team isn't necessarily an asset problem, the Jackets should already be exhibit A for that.

We literally traded a 1st rounder to get Provorov last offseason, which was a (failed) attempt at patching holes. Trading a 1st is more valuable to a rebuilding team than Boone Jenner.

If we obtained Calum Ritchie for instance, I would keep him. You always need ELC impact players.

Example:
Jenner for 1st + Ritchie + 4th
I’m using the 1st (+ Cuelemans? plus whatever Provorov returns) to get another good defenseman. Then ‘replacing’ Jenner in UFA. Much easier to replace a middle 6 forward in UFA than it is an actual good top 4 D, IMO.