Line Combos: Roster Discussion/Line Combos

[stevo61]

But I thought Tom Fitzgerald was a perfect master tactician, what do you mean? Devils fans spent the past year and a half boasting they had the smartest FO and best team in the league.

They definitely underestimated bringing in multiple kids at once on the blueline, although it seemed like they tried not to. They are playing well for kids but experiencing some of the issues we are. The Meier trade hasnt worked out for them yet either but honestly I would have made that trade too without hesitation.

Sports fans are fun, teams that are good now forgot that they sucked before hand. Are we supposed to forget NJ had multiple 1st overalls (with luck) or Edmonton had 256 of them or Toronto has multiple top 5 picks leading their team or Colorado/Tampa/damn near every team in the league that is competitive

 

[Crede777]

So bring back the same team that is going to finish bottom 5? Take another year to evaluate and make a decision? So if next year doesn’t go well it’s another lost year?

The same team but a year older and with more experience playing together? Yes. What this team needs is not another major shakeup - it needs time and consistency.

 

[VT]

Werenski (27), xxx
Dillon (34), Severson (30)
Maata (30), Gudbranson (32)

Reminds me of the Doug MacLean days when instead of working with young players we signed veterans just to play in the PO. Now we have quality, young players. Let's not screw this up again.

 

[stevo61]

Werenski (27), xxx
Dillon (34), Severson (30)
Maata (30), Gudbranson (32)

Reminds me of the Doug MacLean days when instead of working with young players we signed veterans just to play in the PO. Now we have quality, young players. Let's not screw this up again.

Bringing in lots of these quality young players at once has been working well for us eh?

 

[koteka]

Remember when NJ traded Sharangovich+3rd for Toffoli to get better and more experienced? Now Sharangovich is an exciting young player producing at the same level Toffoli is while not being a UFA. Cant win them all but still need to be careful

As an investor, do you know what I have never lost any sleep over? Selling a stock too early and missing out on greater returns. Like if I brought a stock at $20 a share, two years later I sell it at $35, and then it goes to $60. I have many example of that happening, and it doesn’t bother me at all. What does bother me is when I buy a stock, it goes up, I get greedy and don’t take any profits, and then the stock goes down to lower than what I bought it for. Like I buy a stock at $20, it goes to $60, I tell myself I am a genius, the stock goes down to down to $10 and stays there. I beat myself up over that. I lose sleep thinking about that.

Maybe I am weird, but the William Karlsson success in Vegas didn’t bother me at all. Keeping Peeke too long and giving him a contract that pays him more than he is worth — that really bothers me.

An example of an old Jarmo move I liked was drafting Kolesar with the 69th pick and then trading him for the 45th. Another trade I liked at the time was Duchene for Vitaly Abramov, Jonathan Davidsson, and a 1st. (We can ignore the conditional 1st.) Kolesar’s name is on the Cup. Good for him. Abramov and Davidsson played in 11 games between them. Good for us. We were using young assets to try to make the team better.

If we trade Chinakhov as part of a package for help in an area that needs it (like a legit partner for Werenski), I won’t get mad if Chinakhov becomes an all star somewhere. If we stand pat with bad goal tending, bad defense, and a million wings, that is what drives me crazy.

 

[VT]

Bringing in lots of these quality young players at once has been working well for us eh?

But this is the opposite extreme.

 

[stevo61]

As an investor, do you know what I have never lost any sleep over? Selling a stock too early and missing out on greater returns. Like if I brought a stock at $20 a share, two years later I sell it at $35, and then it goes to $60. I have many example of that happening, and it doesn’t bother me at all. What does bother me is when I buy a stock, it goes up, I get greedy and don’t take any profits, and then the stock goes down to lower than what I bought it for. Like I buy a stock at $20, it goes to $60, I tell myself I am a genius, the stock goes down to down to $10 and stays there. I beat myself up over that. I lose sleep thinking about that.

Maybe I am weird, but the William Karlsson success in Vegas didn’t bother me at all. Keeping Peeke too long and giving him a contract that pays him more than he is worth — that really bothers me.

An example of an old Jarmo move I liked was drafting Kolesar with the 69th pick and then trading him for the 45th. Another trade I liked at the time was Duchene for Vitaly Abramov, Jonathan Davidsson, and a 1st. (We can ignore the conditional 1st.) Kolesar’s name is on the Cup. Good for him. Abramov and Davidsson played in 11 games between them. Good for us. We were using young assets to try to make the team better.

If we trade Chinakhov as part of a package for help in an area that needs it (like a legit partner for Werenski), I won’t get mad if Chinakhov becomes an all star somewhere. If we stand pat with bad goal tending, bad defense, and a million wings, that is what drives me crazy.

Trading Kolesar for Texier was a good deal because they had a player in mind when acquiring the pick, not because they simply turned a 3rd into a 2nd. Trade could have just as easily been a flop

Trading prospects just because you say prospect A and prospect B are comparable and I have to send one of the door just because drives me nuts. Like I said, if its a clear visible roster upgrade cool but trading someone that was a 5th rounder like Malatesta is more often than not a lose of value. Clearly someone would see the player as outperforming his draft position and willing to take something more "known" than a draft pick that has higher potential to disappoint that succeed.

I too loved moves like the Duchene trade because we had a good team, we had a core. Thats the time to make those moves, a rebuilding team trading off a bunch of futures for other futures defeats the purpose.

I didnt even hate the Provorov trade. You can argue the fit all day but I like the fact Jarmo atleast tried to get some NHL defensemen in place to try and avoid last years disaster by some degree

 

[stevo61]

But this is the opposite extreme.

Making kids earn a spot is not extreme, its how good teams operate. Noone is harping on Detroit for giving Seider time to develop or having Edvinsson in the AHL, most are applauding it. The up and down thing we do with Jiricek is where the vultures come in. He should have been down in the AHL to begin with

 

[Iron Balls McGinty]

Remember when NJ traded Sharangovich+3rd for Toffoli to get better and more experienced? Now Sharangovich is an exciting young player producing at the same level Toffoli is while not being a UFA. Cant win them all but still need to be careful

But I thought Tom Fitzgerald was a perfect master tactician, what do you mean? Devils fans spent the past year and a half boasting they had the smartest FO and best team in the league.

I’m confused.

Toffoli has 21 goals. The Devils were unable resign to key defensemen that forced them to make room for youth development in Luke Hughes, had a season ending injury to Dougie Hamilton, had Vanecek over perform last year, and has missed Jack Hughes 2 different times due to injury and you expect me to believe the Devils aren’t set up for long term success better than Columbus is?

Some learning curve is expected in the defensive development. They didn’t expect to need to force Nemec into the lineup. It sucks they are losing McLeod due to the hockey Canada situation but he was fantastic on faceoffs for them.

Sharangovich was moved for a shorter term asset who could help because they tied up long term contracts on Meier, Hughes, Hischier, and Bratt. He was an expendable asset they weren’t going to be able to commit to long term.

 

[stevo61]

I’m confused.

Toffoli has 21 goals. The Devils were unable resign to key defensemen that forced them to make room for youth development in Luke Hughes, had a season ending injury to Dougie Hamilton, had Vanecek over perform last year, and has missed Jack Hughes 2 different times due to injury and you expect me to believe the Devils aren’t set up for long term success better than Columbus is?

Some learning curve is expected in the defensive development. They didn’t expect to need to force Nemec into the lineup. It sucks they are losing McLeod due to the hockey Canada situation but he was fantastic on faceoffs for them.

Sharangovich was moved for a shorter term asset who could help because they tied up long term contracts on Meier, Hughes, Hischier, and Bratt. He was an expendable asset they weren’t going to be able to commit to long term.

And why couldnt they commit to Sharangovich?

Also I didnt say NJ wasnt setup for the future but they overestimated some things. Teams lose players all the time. Pittsburgh as an example lost their superstars for extended periods all through their peak and found ways to win, something NJ isnt equipped to do yet hence the experiencing some of the same issues as us with a young team comment

 

[koteka]

Trading Kolesar for Texier was a good deal because they had a player in mind when acquiring the pick, not because they simply turned a 3rd into a 2nd. Trade could have just as easily been a flop

Trading prospects just because you say prospect A and prospect B are comparable and I have to send one of the door just because drives me nuts.

When you have lots of good prospects I think you use them to make the team better, not sit on your ass and let everyone develop and/or flame out. We sat around last summer with a team loaded with wings and wing prospects and didn’t do a single thing with them. Then we play badly, some of our guys struggle, and we lose a couple of wings for nothing. We still have more wings and wing prospects than we will ever use. Plus adding a decent wing is the easiest thing to do in the NHL. One of the reason we have trouble adding another locker room guy is the easy ones to obtain are wings.

If Tex was a flop, I’d still have liked the Kolesar trade. Even when we needed a guy like Kolesar, I didnt attack the team for making the trade. I probably did mention it in a “we used to go after tough players, why don’t we do that anymore?” kind of way.

 

[VT]

Making kids earn a spot is not extreme, its how good teams operate. Noone is harping on Detroit for giving Seider time to develop or having Edvinsson in the AHL, most are applauding it. The up and down thing we do with Jiricek is where the vultures come in. He should have been down in the AHL to begin with

Except we're talking 30 year old defensemen and up who will want a contract for more than one year.

Seider played in Sweden, Jiříček in the AHL. That's a pretty big difference. Do not forget that we are talking about Europeans.

I'm not saying Mateychuk should play in the NHL right away, but there is also Blankenburg on the team who has earned a spot and can play on the left side. Or what do you do when Jiříček is ready to play in the NHL and he turns out to be better than Severson? Will he play instead of him? And where do you get the confidence that Dillon would have good chemistry with Severson or if he will even play well?

Maybe it would be better to keep Provorov and watch Mateychuk develop. With Gudbranson he could play Blankenburg, they had some chemistry last season if you want trade Bean.

Our problem is Vincent is still unexperienced. But it will not in the next season.

To hitting etc. You know, I know Voronkov, watched him in the KHL. But his agresivity in Ak Bars and here is different. I do not; understand it.

 

[stevo61]

Except we're talking 30 year old defensemen and up who will want a contract for more than one year.

Seider played in Sweden, Jiříček in the AHL. That's a pretty big difference. Do not forget that we are talking about Europeans.

I'm not saying Mateychuk should play in the NHL right away, but there is also Blankenburg on the team who has earned a spot and can play on the left side. Or what do you do when Jiříček is ready to play in the NHL and he turns out to be better than Severson? Will he play instead of him? And where do you get the confidence that Dillon would have good chemistry with Severson or if he will even play well?

Maybe it would be better to keep Provorov and watch Mateychuk develop. With Gudbranson he could play Blankenburg, they had some chemistry last season if you want trade Bean.

Our problem is Vincent is still unexperienced. But it will not in the next season.

To hitting etc. You know, I know Voronkov, watched him in the KHL. But his agresivity in Ak Bars and here is different. I do not; understand it.

Seider also played a year in the AHL, do not forget that.

When Jiricek is ready there is room for him. He can leapfrog Severson pretty easy and Boqvist surprisingly has shown well on the left side. The issue with Boqvist/Blankenburg is Columbus biggest longstanding issue and that is injuries. Hard to rely on multiple guys in your top 6 that battle injuries. Jarmo even made sure to note how reliable Severson's health was when announcing the signing.

I never said sign Dillon and I never said play him with Severson but the concept of 2 veterans 1 of which is more offensive and the other who is more defensive makes sense to me.

As for Voronkov I think the coaching staff worked on him not taking minor penalties and have reeled him in too far.I think they see his value as a skilled big man which is kind of unfortunate but hes better at it than expected

 

[stevo61]

When you have lots of good prospects I think you use them to make the team better, not sit on your ass and let everyone develop and/or flame out. We sat around last summer with a team loaded with wings and wing prospects and didn’t do a single thing with them. Then we play badly, some of our guys struggle, and we lose a couple of wings for nothing. We still have more wings and wing prospects than we will ever use. Plus adding a decent wing is the easiest thing to do in the NHL. One of the reason we have trouble adding another locker room guy is the easy ones to obtain are wings.

If Tex was a flop, I’d still have liked the Kolesar trade. Even when we needed a guy like Kolesar, I didnt attack the team for making the trade. I probably did mention it in a “we used to go after tough players, why don’t we do that anymore?” kind of way.

Who did we lose for nothing? Foudy and Robinson? Not exactly expecting returns on either regardless when you move those guys. Foudy being an example that even 1st round picks can often be an overrated return. There are times its great and times your just trying to win the lottery again.

I was sad with the Kolesar trade. I used to tune into Seattle games because I had high hopes for him

 

[Cowumbus]

The same team but a year older and with more experience playing together? Yes. What this team needs is not another major shakeup - it needs time and consistency.

Is adding 1-2 quality proven NHL defensemen a major shakeup?

Or are you saying trading Boone Jenner is a major shakeup, even if replaced by someone like Monahan?

Both?

We could do both of those things and still have 90% of our roster remain the same. But you want to remain the youngest team in the league with no changes after what we have witnessed the last 2 years?

 

[Forepar]

Howson's set of moves made the team better immediately. They almost made the playoffs that year.

He traded for leadership and structure. That and we suddenly had 4 solid centers, a great forecheck, and a Vezina level goalie. The two futures acquired didn't pan out, although we parlayed Rychel into the great Scott Harrington!

So if you want to trade Jenner for futures, then Howson's moves are hardly the right precedent to cite. Though if you want to trade Jenner for even better leaders who will help immediately, then sure. I haven't heard @cbjthrowaway put that one out yet

Agree, especially with the bolded above ^.

 

[VT]

Seider also played a year in the AHL, do not forget that.

When Jiricek is ready there is room for him. He can leapfrog Severson pretty easy and Boqvist surprisingly has shown well on the left side. The issue with Boqvist/Blankenburg is Columbus biggest longstanding issue and that is injuries. Hard to rely on multiple guys in your top 6 that battle injuries. Jarmo even made sure to note how reliable Severson's health was when announcing the signing.

I never said sign Dillon and I never said play him with Severson but the concept of 2 veterans 1 of which is more offensive and the other who is more defensive makes sense to me.

As for Voronkov I think the coaching staff worked on him not taking minor penalties and have reeled him in too far.I think they see his value as a skilled big man which is kind of unfortunate but hes better at it than expected

I wrote the left side according to Cowumbus, I thought you agreed with that.

Seems to me that Severson was playing on the left side.

Do you really think Jiricek will replace Severson with his contract? I doubt it.

I agree, we need a tough defenseman. But he only needs to be here until our young defensemen grow up, not 7 years or so. Of course, I mean they'll be fighting for a spot. They just have to be given a chance. Right now, for example, Severson is blocking a spot since we don't know how he'll play in a year or two and we could lose one of the Jiříček/Boqvist pairing (let's not forget agents). The same thing could happen on the left side.

You can play aggressively without fouling, Dima can hit cleanly. Also I have thought getting the puck, when checking. Maybe it may be due to getting used to the center position, condition (the NHL is not the KHL, more games). We'll see.

Seider was playing his first season in NA in the AHL. Next in the SHL. Jiříček not. To Edvinsson. Players on the left side: Walman, Maata, Gostishbegere, Chiarot. Good salary, contract maximum to 2025/26. Here is Severson with his contract $6,250,000 to 2030/31. Gudbranson has other roles, so there will be a battle between Boqvist (this season is health) and Jiříček for one spot. And I think it is enough unfair I think. Because we need a player like Gudbranson on the 3th line. If a similar player on the left side, there is Werenski.That's I wrote we can't make similar mistake on the left side. If contract, normal. And you know how Jarmo likes to sign contract with veterans.

 

[Iron Balls McGinty]

And why couldnt they commit to Sharangovich?

Because they have made many long term commitments to other people. He wasn’t going to get big minutes in NJ so good for him making the best out of Calgary.

I’m still not sure why Toffoli was a bad pickup in exchange. He’s performing. He’s not on the hook for anything after this year. The Devils are still in wild card contention if their goaltending plays better. That deal has no real impact on what they have been doing this year. The fact is NJ got hit with the injury bug in key positions just like the CBJ have in the past.

People here can complain about Severson but the Devils miss him on the blue line. They didn’t want to recall Nemec but they sort of had to when Hamilton went down and he has ended up being one of their better defensemen.

 

[VT]

Because they have made many long term commitments to other people. He wasn’t going to get big minutes in NJ so good for him making the best out of Calgary.

I’m still not sure why Toffoli was a bad pickup in exchange. He’s performing. He’s not on the hook for anything after this year. The Devils are still in wild card contention if their goaltending plays better. That deal has no real impact on what they have been doing this year. The fact is NJ got hit with the injury bug in key positions just like the CBJ have in the past.

People here can complain about Severson but the Devils miss him on the blue line. They didn’t want to recall Nemec but they sort of had to when Hamilton went down and he has ended up being one of their better defensemen.

The problem is Severson's contract.

 

[Cheddarcheese]

The problem is Severson's contract.

contract isn't bad ( where the cap going to be in 30/31 )
with a few, maybe two expansion team coming? the defenseman quality with also go down.

 

[stevo61]

I wrote the left side according to Cowumbus, I thought you agreed with that.

Seems to me that Severson was playing on the left side.

Do you really think Jiricek will replace Severson with his contract? I doubt it.

I agree, we need a tough defenseman. But he only needs to be here until our young defensemen grow up, not 7 years or so. Of course, I mean they'll be fighting for a spot. They just have to be given a chance. Right now, for example, Severson is blocking a spot since we don't know how he'll play in a year or two and we could lose one of the Jiříček/Boqvist pairing (let's not forget agents). The same thing could happen on the left side.

You can play aggressively without fouling, Dima can hit cleanly. Also I have thought getting the puck, when checking. Maybe it may be due to getting used to the center position, condition (the NHL is not the KHL, more games). We'll see.

Seider was playing his first season in NA in the AHL. Next in the SHL. Jiříček not. To Edvinsson. Players on the left side: Walman, Maata, Gostishbegere, Chiarot. Good salary, contract maximum to 2025/26. Here is Severson with his contract $6,250,000 to 2030/31. Gudbranson has other roles, so there will be a battle between Boqvist (this season is health) and Jiříček for one spot. And I think it is enough unfair I think. Because we need a player like Gudbranson on the 3th line. If a similar player on the left side, there is Werenski.That's I wrote we can't make similar mistake on the left side. If contract, normal. And you know how Jarmo likes to sign contract with veterans.

Voronkov not speaking the language is still a major issue in many area's, not being able to communicate with refs/linesman is another layer to it. I also wouldnt be surprised to see him come to camp next year more trim, 240lbs is exhausting to move around.

As for Jiricek I can almost promise he displaces Severson at some point and management is banking on it. It will be interesting to see what they do over the next year and who stays/goes. If they move Provorov the top 6 could be something like Werenski-Boqvist Severson-Jiricek ???-Gudbranson. Mateychuk will be on the verge of making it but that would be such a young group and 1 major injury would be devastating. Especially if its Z and thats not at all out of the question, having a vet helps in so many ways whether its overpaying to get a short deal/holding onto Provorov or making some sort of tradr

 

[CBJWerenski8]

CBJ give up the 6th easiest amount of shots a game this year.

 

[stevo61]

CBJ give up the 6th easiest amount of shots a game this year.

They just balance out the higher danger chances with a ton of low danger chances. They give up a ton of shots overall.

Some may see a good ratio, I see the 6th most high danger shots against in the league

 

[Iron Balls McGinty]

The problem is Severson's contract.

Also why NJ couldn't keep him. He was going to cost more on the open market than they could fit under the cap today. it's why both he and Graves are not on the team this year.

 

[Iron Balls McGinty]

CBJ give up the 6th easiest amount of shots a game this year.

They just balance out the higher danger chances with a ton of low danger chances. They give up a ton of shots overall.

Some may see a good ratio, I see the 6th most high danger shots against in the league

Both of these mean we give up way too many shots per game and don't possess the puck enough.