Roster Building XX: How Many Patents Does Your GM Have?

[WreckingCrew]

This summer sets up to be one of the Canes most interesting frustrating to date.

FTFY...we all know the upcoming reality

 

[Blueline Bomber]

Moving on from Hamilton was a very wise move. We would scrambling a lot more with his cap hit, declining performance and injuries right now

I mean, I understand why we moved on from Hamilton, because (at the time), what he was asking for seemed ridiculous.

But now we're paying both Burns (8 million) and Orlov (7.75 million) to try and replace what we lost in Hamilton. So did we really save any money by letting him go?

And injuries happen or don't happen at random. It's possible Hamilton could have been injured here similarly to how he's been injured in Jersey, but that's not guaranteed. And it's hard to say he's had a declining performance, considering his last (relatively) healthy season matched what he was putting up this past season before his injury.

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

FTFY...we all know the upcoming reality

It's only frustrating if you think that you know better than guys who evaluate players for a living. I don't, so I've learned to never be frustrated.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

I mean, I understand why we moved on from Hamilton, because (at the time), what he was asking for seemed ridiculous.

But now we're paying both Burns (8 million) and Orlov (7.75 million) to try and replace what we lost in Hamilton. So did we really save any money by letting him go?

And injuries happen or don't happen at random. It's possible Hamilton could have been injured here similarly to how he's been injured in Jersey, but that's not guaranteed. And it's hard to say he's had a declining performance, considering his last (relatively) healthy season matched what he was putting up this past season before his injury.

we are paying burns 5+ million, not 8. We arent paying Orlov to cover for hamilton. We are paying Orlov so we dont get stuck having to give out a bad long term deal and bridge the gap to Nikishin. We had the cap space, so why not make the defense that much better?

 

[SlavinAway]

But now we're paying both Burns (8 million) and Orlov (7.75 million) to try and replace what we lost in Hamilton. So did we really save any money by letting him go?

Burns is the Hamilton replacement and we're paying him $5.3M vs Hamilton's $9M.

Orlov was an opportunity that popped up to bridge us from Skjei to Nikishin if Skjei walks in FA.

 

[bleedgreen]

i didnt miss it. its hard to say a build went sideways when the guy who left likely also keeps it going sideways. looking at the injuries lately, maybe even more sideways

You did. Because it’s not about Dougie really, or any one guy. That version of the team wasn’t going to stay together long enough for the other pieces to catch up. They were a fun team to watch, they made the playoffs and weren’t going to be good enough to win it all but they were a worthy team. Im glad they existed and we rooted for them. They had the three best friends anyone can ever really have. We needed more guys on that team, and as we lost guys we had to replace them and then still find ways to add. It’s timing. It’s not Dougie or the others. Time ran out. Now we turn the page and find a new normal.

 

[WreckingCrew]

I mean, I understand why we moved on from Hamilton, because (at the time), what he was asking for seemed ridiculous.

But now we're paying both Burns (8 million) and Orlov (7.75 million) to try and replace what we lost in Hamilton. So did we really save any money by letting him go?

And injuries happen or don't happen at random. It's possible Hamilton could have been injured here similarly to how he's been injured in Jersey, but that's not guaranteed. And it's hard to say he's had a declining performance, considering his last (relatively) healthy season matched what he was putting up this past season before his injury.

We're actually only paying Burns $5.28M (3 yrs total) and Orlov is only 2 yrs...Hammy was $9M for 7 years. MASSIVE difference. Which is better...Hamilton & a Coghlan type? Or Burns + Orlov?

EDIT: I'll add I was a huge Hamilton fan overall, but I agreed with the decision to let him go

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

I admit that I was apprehensive about letting Hamilton go due to the difficulty of acquiring quality RHD, but they got it right. DeAngelo replaced him in Year 1. He brought back a nice return in trade; the 2nd ended up a primary piece in the Guentzel deal. Burns came at a modest cost and has filled that role just fine. They haven't felt Hamilton's loss 3 years in. Credit to them.

 

[chaz4hockey]

I don’t mean to sound gloomy but I think this build IS over. Maybe it’s time for that. I agree about Guentzel and what you’re saying there, but imo he’s gone. Which makes the move a little worthless to me, but that’s how I see rentals in the first place. High price, limited benefit unless you keep them other than to show you what your team lacks.

I’m not complaining about not signing the guys who left to contracts when I say this, it’s just an accumulated feeling that seems like it’s coming together for me recently. The timing for this build went sideways when Dougie left. We’ve been scrambling since. Finding Tony for a bargain was awesome, but we weren’t going to win with Tony on the first pair - that’s basically a year gone right there to me. Then Tro and Nino left and we replaced them by giving KK and Martinook promotions. That’s going sideways at best, and that’s a bit of an insult to the term sideways in my honest opinion. Statistically I’m sure there’s an argument that we did just fine and didn’t actually miss them but I dont believe that. That group had chemistry, and was short a few players. We have older Svech, Jarvis and Necas now but with the others gone it just felt a little short. In the end it’s a matter of timing, so again it’s not about arguing those contracts needed to be signed or whatever. Nino should’ve stayed if you’re going there, but I understood why the other two weren’t going to.

My point is this build didn’t have the right timing. All the pieces weren’t there at the same time as they needed to be. It showed in being one goal short here or there, making it seem so close but cumulatively we just were never really there. Blame it on the pp, the goalie….whatever. I think the biggest mistake now would be overpaying to hold on instead of taking a step in whatever the new direction is.

Team has also been snakebite re: injuries in their recent playoff prime years.

Player selection (ie prone to injuries), size/build of player, just bad luck, etc. who knows but there has always been someone(s) hurt that impaired the progress.

We're actually only paying Burns $5.28M (3 yrs total) and Orlov is only 2 yrs...Hammy was $9M for 7 years. MASSIVE difference. Which is better...Hamilton & a Coghlan type? Or Burns + Orlov?

EDIT: I'll add I was a huge Hamilton fan overall, but I agreed with the decision to let him go

Liked Burns Y1; however, no longer feel he is 1st D capable. The Canes need to find a top level D to pair with Slavin and more size/meaness overall.

 

[Blueline Bomber]

we are paying burns 5+ million, not 8. We arent paying Orlov to cover for hamilton. We are paying Orlov so we dont get stuck having to give out a bad long term deal and bridge the gap to Nikishin. We had the cap space, so why not make the defense that much better?

The problem is Nikishin isn't a guarantee. I'm as hopeful as the next fan, but hoping a player can fill a hole in some future lineup at the cost of a player we KNOW can fill that hole is how we got KK instead of Trocheck.

Nikishin has the skills to make the team, no doubt, but it's the matter of getting him over here that makes penciling him in (or signing contracts with the idea that he'll be in the lineup) a little presumptuous.

 

[WreckingCrew]

Liked Burns Y1; however, no longer feel he is 1st D capable. The Canes need to find a top level D to pair with Slavin and more size/meaness overall.

Agreed, he was great last year once adjusted, but this year was nominally top 4 capable...and I'd be fine with never seeing him on the PP ever again, he was a horrendous turnover machine at the blueline

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

The problem is Nikishin isn't a guarantee. I'm as hopeful as the next fan, but hoping a player can fill a hole in some future lineup at the cost of a player we KNOW can fill that hole is how we got KK instead of Trocheck.

Nikishin has the skills to make the team, no doubt, but it's the matter of getting him over here that makes penciling him in (or signing contracts with the idea that he'll be in the lineup) a little presumptuous.

Projecting young players out long-term and paying them early is how teams like Carolina stay relevant long-term while other teams age out of contention. Not every young player, however, becomes instant sensations like the Dallas forwards did. The KK story of offensive struggles is the more common story among under-25 players, and it's quite possible that he still develops into a valuable center in the NHL. My only question is if Carolina has the luxury to wait on that with their contention period, which is something I can't answer since I don't have enough information.

 

[Blueline Bomber]

Projecting young players out long-term and paying them early is how teams like Carolina stay relevant long-term while other teams age out of contention. Not every young player, however, becomes instant sensations like the Dallas forwards did. The KK story of offensive struggles is the more common story among under-25 players, and it's quite possible that he still develops into a valuable center in the NHL. My only question is if Carolina has the luxury to wait on that with their contention period, which is something I can't answer since I don't have enough information.

Right now, KK is looking more like a more physical Boychuk or Dalpe to me. A guy that's been in the league long enough, despite his young age, to show some kind of development, and simply hasn't. And ironically, Boychuk and Dalpe were both prime candidates for the "Oh, pencil them into the Top 6/PP. They'll get there eventually."

 

[Svechhammer]

Guentzel didn’t get us over the hump either way. So the guentzel situation shouldn’t mean the management team isn’t capable of getting us over the hump. Also guentzel is an extreme case of paying a UFA. 30 years old, injury history and a smaller guy. More risk there than say Reinhart

I dunno, I think for the first time in a while this year we were undone because our defense and goaltending completely imploded, in no small part because we had to replace one of the leagues better defensive defensemen with the league's worst, and the TOI shuffling that created. Offensively, we were able to hold our own, which is saying something with apparently no 2C and Jarvis playing on only one arm. Guentzel played a huge role in that, and if we bring him back, I have every faith that with our usual style its only a matter of time before it all comes together, especially once Nikishin comes in and we're able to run a few ELCs on defense while still playing at a high level.

 

[ndp]

Bunting didn't fit well on the third line, but there's a good chance that on July 1 we will see glaring holes in the top 6, and one could have been filled by Bunting for a reasonable salary.

Martinook and Drury will hold down the second line next season. Book it!

 

[chaz4hockey]

The problem is Nikishin isn't a guarantee. I'm as hopeful as the next fan, but hoping a player can fill a hole in some future lineup at the cost of a player we KNOW can fill that hole is how we got KK instead of Trocheck.

Nikishin has the skills to make the team, no doubt, but it's the matter of getting him over here that makes penciling him in (or signing contracts with the idea that he'll be in the lineup) a little presumptuous.

Ah, but Nikishin falls under "hope is a strategy" for front office and in particular the fan base.

 

[Lempo]

Ah, but Nikishin falls under "hope is a strategy" for front office and in particular the fan base.

Love is a battlefield and faith is one of them things, too.

 

[bleedgreen]

Love is a battlefield and faith is one of them things, too.

Let hope he hits us with his best shot, because otherwise it’s just been promises in the dark.

 

[cptjeff]

Let hope he hits us with his best shot, because otherwise it’s just been promises in the dark.

He better run out of Russia, otherwise he'll be pursued by shadows in the night.

 

[LakeLivin]

Until Dundon shows he would sign a true long term ufa that isn’t Aho when he’s 26, it’s hard to believe any player like this will ever be an option for us.

I'm curious: was it hard to believe that paying for the best available rental at the trade deadline would ever be an option for us?

I have no idea what Dundon will do, but I'm of the belief that sometimes the limitations we place on what the Borg/Dundon might do may actually be limitations in our own thinking.

 

[DaveG]

He better run out of Russia, otherwise he'll be pursued by shadows in the night.

I mean we're all asking if he should stay or he should go now, but he needs to run far away if he does go. Raleigh's probably as good a place as any for that.

 

[Stickpucker]

Hi friends. I enjoy some torture so I hope that I came to the right place.

Mikko Rantanen from my Avs for
Martin Necas, 2024 1st and 2025 1st.

I'd imagine you wouldn't have trouble re-signing Rants to something like 12,5M x 8 yrs deal. There is your 50 goal guy with awesome playoff pedigree which we have a hard time fitting cap-wise.

Avs get cap relief, a very good replacement in Necas and some very valuable futures.

I can't speak to the trade but Colorado would love Necas.

I'm curious: was it hard to believe that paying for the best available rental at the trade deadline would ever be an option for us? I have no idea what Dundon will do, but I'm of the belief that sometimes the limitations we place on what the Borg/Dundon might do may actually be limitations in our own thinking.

I concur with LakeLivin I have seen a lot of limited thinking in these parts






By Habs fans.

 

[To Be Determined]

He better run out of Russia, otherwise he'll be pursued by shadows in the night.

I was going to keep this going, but i'll stand pat. Been a tar heel since birth (nc native, absolutely not a unc fan).

 

[LakeLivin]

I mean, I understand why we moved on from Hamilton, because (at the time), what he was asking for seemed ridiculous.

But now we're paying both Burns (8 million) and Orlov (7.75 million) to try and replace what we lost in Hamilton. So did we really save any money by letting him go?

And injuries happen or don't happen at random. It's possible Hamilton could have been injured here similarly to how he's been injured in Jersey, but that's not guaranteed. And it's hard to say he's had a declining performance, considering his last (relatively) healthy season matched what he was putting up this past season before his injury.

In addition to the term if we'd signed Hamilton (which others have addressed), what about a possible knock on effect if we'd signed Dougie @ $9m +? Would Aho have signed what most view as a team friendly deal? And everyone else signed since then or currently negotiating a contract with the Canes? Sometimes these things are like throwing a rock into a still pond, there are ripples that spread well beyond the initial point of impact.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Right now, KK is looking more like a more physical Boychuk or Dalpe to me. A guy that's been in the league long enough, despite his young age, to show some kind of development, and simply hasn't. And ironically, Boychuk and Dalpe were both prime candidates for the "Oh, pencil them into the Top 6/PP. They'll get there eventually."

Some of us really did go through generational fan-trauma with that group.