Roster Building XX: How Many Patents Does Your GM Have?

[Nikishin Go Boom]

Am I the only one who thinks we need to get nastier up front? At least bigger. Marchy doesn't do anything for me. Good scorer, but so was JG. How do we get Buch from Stlouis?

We definitely do need to. At a minimum get guys who go to the dirty areas

 

[Joe McGrath]

We definitely do need to. At a minimum get guys who go to the dirty areas

The only guys on the entire team that don’t go to the dirty areas with regularity are TT and Necas.

Cant be picky about player type when they score 45+ goals.

 

[NotOpie]

The other thing about Guentzel beyond the contractual risk is that he's not the fix for the PP, as we saw in the Rangers series. Not committing to him maybe opens the door for someone that is, this offseason or in the future.

We have almost $30 million in cap space w/14 guys signed (subtract all the rookies except Morrow). Assuming no Guentzel and Necas is moved, we do have some room to play.

Also, I thought I heard somebody in the coaching staff or front office mention that it was our defense that got us to where we are, so they are the priority....not sure I'm remembering correctly (or maybe it was Waddell on his way out). So I wouldn't be surprised to see not just a Slavin extension, but a Chatfield signing. That get's us to 4 solid defenders signed. It probably leaves us w/$26 million or so. My guess is we'll hear about the blue line before anything else....followed closely by a Jarvis extension. If Jarvis is bridged, then my guess is Necas is back. If Jarvis is signed long term prior to any Necas news then all bets are off, but I'd guess he (Necas) gets moved (which I'd hate to see).

Given that scenario, hear me out on a trade with Winnipeg:

To Jets:

Martin Necas
2024 4th round pick

To Canes:

Brad Lambert
Nino Niederreiter

Lambert is a pretty darn good prospect. He's fast, a solid scoring option from the right side, and can play center. He's also likely NHL ready. Getting Nino back for 3 years at $4 million per gets us bigger and a bit more physical. I think he'd slot in nicely on the 2nd line. That would also leave us cash to sign a UFA to shore up scoring (or trade for one).

After this is all said and done, we likely have enough cap space to fill out the defense and target one more offensive threat. Then everything else is back filling.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

Nino wasn’t a difference maker in the playoffs, pass

 

[Lempo]

This is turning into quite the soap opera. I am looking forward to seeing how it all gets messaged.

Necas' Dad accused the team of purposely keeping his numbers lower for negotiating tactics from Ryan Henkel @ The Hockey News:

View attachment 880235

Dear Americans, don't read anything to the comments and soundbites the European players' loved ones give to the domestic audiences and the local media. None of it is meant for your consumption. It's a wholly different reality where these people operate. The America is somewhere overseas long way away, an elusive dream, a mirage. Only that local boy is (barely) tangible enough for them to talk about and then they talk things because they got papers to sell and grievances to air.

 

[Gurglesons]

You misunderstand my point.

This is not a knock on Jake, it's a statement of how the team is currently configured. We don't have and elite talent like Crosby, Malkin, Kucherov, McKinnon, McDavid.

We don't have the size and physicality of of a team like Vegas or even Florida.

Our PP has failed in the playoffs many years now, including this one.

Of course any team can use a player like Jake Guentzel, but my point is that with the top 6 already being small and/or more perimeter players, is it the right make-up overall?

Now, if the team keeps Jake and makes other changes to adds skill and size to the top 6 on top of that, that's another story.

Is Jake Guentzel comparable to any player currently on the Canes?

I just don't get the point. Guentzel is not a perimeter player and why does his size matter if he's consistently winning net front battles?

 

[WreckingCrew]

Nino wasn’t a difference maker in the playoffs, pass

Literally nobody on the team has been a difference maker in the playoffs...can't pass on everyone

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

Literally nobody on the team has been a difference maker in the playoffs...can't pass on everyone

Why trade a valuable piece you already know hasn’t changed your futures?

 

[User13452]

Sign me up for marchessault on a year 3 deal all day. He may be small but like Jarvis he isn’t afraid to go to the dirty areas plus he’s another right handed shot

 

[robbieberns]

I’ve been thinking about Buchnevich since his name popped up at the TDL. Definitely think size and ability to drive the puck to the need are number one priority for the forward group.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Is Jake Guentzel comparable to any player currently on the Canes?

No.

I just don't get the point. Guentzel is not a perimeter player and why does his size matter if he's consistently winning net front battles?

He had 3 five vs. five goals goals, 0 PP goals, and 1 EN goal over 11 games. I get that he's been phenomenal in years past in Pittsburgh, but let's not act like he was a force in the playoffs this year, regardless of what he's done in the past.

Let's look at it like this. Let's say the Canes play Guentzel $8M+ / year for 8 years. That's a fair contract for a player of his caliber, do we agree?

As been stated on here, the problem with the Canes in the playoffs this year were:
1) PP was atrocious (Guentzel was on it)
2) Defense and particularly PK struggled without Pesce
3) Goaltending wasn't great

So if they pay Guentzel that amount of money, how are they going to address items 1, 2 and 3? There won't be money for Skjei and Pesce if they sign him. Where do they find replacements for cheap?

Look, I'd LOVE to keep Guentzel. I think he's a great player, but do I think signing Guentzel for a long term deal and not addressing the size/physicality of our top 6 and not having money to address other holes makes the team a cup team? No, I don't.

If we can sign Jake and do all those things, then I'd be a happy camper.

Again, I'm not against signing Guentzel, nor am I knocking him as a player. Just stating that it's more than just about Jake.

 

[Gurglesons]

No.

He had 3 five vs. five goals goals, 0 PP goals, and 1 EN goal over 11 games. I get that he's been phenomenal in years past in Pittsburgh, but let's not act like he was a force in the playoffs this year, regardless of what he's done in the past.

Let's look at it like this. Let's say the Canes play Guentzel $8M+ / year for 8 years. That's a fair contract for a player of his caliber, do we agree?

As been stated on here, the problem with the Canes in the playoffs this year were:
1) PP was atrocious (Guentzel was on it)
2) Defense and particularly PK struggled without Pesce
3) Goaltending wasn't great

So if they pay Guentzel that amount of money, how are they going to address items 1, 2 and 3? There won't be money for Skjei and Pesce if they sign him. Where do they find replacements for cheap?

Look, I'd LOVE to keep Guentzel. I think he's a great player, but do I think signing Guentzel for a long term deal and not addressing the size/physicality of our top 6 and not having money to address other holes makes the team a cup team? No, I don't.

If we can sign Jake and do all those things, then I'd be a happy camper.

Again, I'm not against signing Guentzel, nor am I knocking him as a player. Just stating that it's more than just about Jake.

I guess the issue was more that you are saying he's more of the same of what Carolina has upfront and I'd argue he's exactly what you are asking for minus the fact he doesn't like "crush players" on the forecheck.

I don't really see the issue with signing Guentzel for 8 million. Carolina's window is probably 3-4 years at most at this point.

 

[chaz4hockey]

I guess the issue was more that you are saying he's more of the same of what Carolina has upfront and I'd argue he's exactly what you are asking for minus the fact he doesn't like "crush players" on the forecheck.

I don't really see the issue with signing Guentzel for 8 million. Carolina's window is probably 3-4 years at most at this point.

I like JG but recognize the challenges of fitting him in a cap budget.

Btw: I’m more optimistic on their window. Their core is still very young and they have pieces coming up that will be contributors.

I’d say 7-8 years right now.

 

[Gurglesons]

I like JG but recognize the challenges of fitting him in a cap budget.

Btw: I’m more optimistic on their window. Their core is still very young and they have pieces coming up that will be contributors.

I’d say 7-8 years right now.

If the Canes are letting Necas go, I don't see the issue.

I also don't see how any team has a 7-8 year window.

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

FUS and Jarvis taking a step will save the offense.

I'm worried about the d. They're effectively losing 3 top 4 defensemen with Burns being the oldest player in the League.

The reason I'm not too worried about the D is because we have both Morrow and Nikishin in the wings. This season was always going to be a transition of sorts, but make the correct signings and you can bridge the gap successfully. If Burns is more of a potato next season like he was at times in the Rangers series, perhaps that's an opportunity for Morrow to move up the lineup.

 

[Daeavorn]

No.

He had 3 five vs. five goals goals, 0 PP goals, and 1 EN goal over 11 games. I get that he's been phenomenal in years past in Pittsburgh, but let's not act like he was a force in the playoffs this year, regardless of what he's done in the past.

Let's look at it like this. Let's say the Canes play Guentzel $8M+ / year for 8 years. That's a fair contract for a player of his caliber, do we agree?

As been stated on here, the problem with the Canes in the playoffs this year were:
1) PP was atrocious (Guentzel was on it)
2) Defense and particularly PK struggled without Pesce
3) Goaltending wasn't great

So if they pay Guentzel that amount of money, how are they going to address items 1, 2 and 3? There won't be money for Skjei and Pesce if they sign him. Where do they find replacements for cheap?

Look, I'd LOVE to keep Guentzel. I think he's a great player, but do I think signing Guentzel for a long term deal and not addressing the size/physicality of our top 6 and not having money to address other holes makes the team a cup team? No, I don't.

If we can sign Jake and do all those things, then I'd be a happy camper.

Again, I'm not against signing Guentzel, nor am I knocking him as a player. Just stating that it's more than just about Jake.

To your point we've tried this group for 6 years, and we never made any progress.

What is progress for us? Winning an ECF game.

Our top 6 needs to be bigger and nastier otherwise I don't think anything is going to change.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I guess the issue was more that you are saying he's more of the same of what Carolina has upfront and I'd argue he's exactly what you are asking for minus the fact he doesn't like "crush players" on the forecheck.

Fair enough

I don't really see the issue with signing Guentzel for 8 million. Carolina's window is probably 3-4 years at most at this point.

maybe. But it all depends on young guys, Svech, Jarvis, Nadeau, Morrow, Nikishin, Blake, FUS, Kochetkov, etc.

We aren’t going to have elite talent like Crosby or Malkin. JR could sell the farm in Pit because he had elite talent. Canes have to rely on depth.

 

[Gurglesons]

To your point we've tried this group for 6 years, and we never made any progress.

What is progress for us? Winning an ECF game.

Our top 6 needs to be bigger and nastier otherwise I don't think anything is going to change.

It seems weird that people are taking this away from the Florida Panthers success.

Not trying to say they don't have players like Bennett and Tkachuk, but a lot of their roster build is success from players like Guentzel.

 

[Lempo]

I also don't see how any team has a 7-8 year window.

I have always felt that the singular thing that closes the window is the big long contracts that the team gives to their core top dogs in full knowledge that the final years are a huge overpayment, and those guys then keep getting paid for their past prowess while the rebuild kicks in as the other good players from the team's best roster move on as UFAs and the good ELC guys are not on ELC any more.

The Canes' current MO seem to be to avoid those overpayments, not that we particularly have had aging core top dogs in need of UFA contract.

 

[Daeavorn]

It seems weird that people are taking this away from the Florida Panthers success.

Not trying to say they don't have players like Bennett and Tkachuk, but a lot of their roster build is success from players like Guentzel.

Jake didn't really move the needle for us. He did well but not outstandingly so.

We need to do something different. We need to pivot.

I would have loved to have him on the team but I'm not going to cry that he's moving on.

 

[Gurglesons]

Jake didn't really move the needle for us. He did well but not outstandingly so.

We need to do something different. We need to pivot.

I would have loved to have him on the team but I'm not going to cry that he's moving on.

Jarvis scored 13 goals and 17 points in 17 games after Guentzel came over.

Guentzel was also your leading scorer. Not sure what else you were expecting lol.

I have always felt that the singular thing that closes the window is the big long contracts that the team gives to their core top dogs in full knowledge that the final years are a huge overpayment, and those guys then keep getting paid for their past prowess while the rebuild kicks in as the other good players from the team's best roster move on as UFAs and the good ELC guys are not on ELC any more.

The Canes' current MO seem to be to avoid those overpayments, not that we particularly have had aging core top dogs in need of UFA contract.

I think it's more being too attached to players. You can sign a player like Jake or whoever to a deal with term, just be prepared to deal it when the time comes.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

Guentzel wouldn’t prevent a Middle 6er with some size as a balancer. There are other clubs that don’t even have a Svechnikov type in their core.

The PP is a different story. As soon as he gets that NMC, Aho/Svechnikov/Jarvis/Guentzel, the 4 forwards on the 1st unit, is the core. Transformational change becomes very difficult. Damn good EV, but you’ll always be worried about the bottom falling out in a playoff series yet again.

 

[chaz4hockey]

Jake didn't really move the needle for us. He did well but not outstandingly so.

We need to do something different. We need to pivot.

I would have loved to have him on the team but I'm not going to cry that he's moving on.

I’ll always look at his play as snake-bit that probably won’t happen to him again.

He hit a bunch of posts plus a bunch of almosts (other Canes too were post unlucky ie 3rd period. Game 6)

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

I have always felt that the singular thing that closes the window is the big long contracts that the team gives to their core top dogs in full knowledge that the final years are a huge overpayment, and those guys then keep getting paid for their past prowess while the rebuild kicks in as the other good players from the team's best roster move on as UFAs and the good ELC guys are not on ELC any more.

The Canes' current MO seem to be to avoid those overpayments, not that we particularly have had aging core top dogs in need of UFA contract.

Yes, or in Chicago's case, giving big, long contracts to guys who they should've pivoted away from much earlier (Keith, Seabrook).

 

[Brock Anton]

It seems weird that people are taking this away from the Florida Panthers success.

Not trying to say they don't have players like Bennett and Tkachuk, but a lot of their roster build is success from players like Guentzel.

100% this.

I swear, some people think the Panthers are the 70’s Flyers at times. They’re every bit a “skill team” as us and the Leafs are.