Roster Building XX: How Many Patents Does Your GM Have?

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

100% this.

I swear, some people think the Panthers are the 70’s Flyers at times. They’re every bit a “skill team” as us and the Leafs are.

The Canes are not dumb. If Guentzel signs elsewhere, they'll have another at-or-near PPG skill guy ready to go. That Marchessault thought that THW put out makes a lot of sense because he's like the Giroux of this offseason. Older but still productive, likely signable to a 3 or 4 year term rather than 7 or 8.

 

[To Be Determined]

To your point we've tried this group for 6 years, and we never made any progress.

this got me curious about how much things have stayed the same over the last 6 years, aka when the boys joined...

18-19 started it all with 8 mainstays:
Aho
Staal
Svetch
Martinook
Turbo
Slavin
Pesce
Necas (only 7 games, none in the playoffs)

19-20
The Hateful Eight, added Skjei (7 games, then playoffs)

20-21
Those 9, added Fast

21-22
Those 10, plus (deep breath...)
Jarvis
Kotkaniemi
TDA
Freddie
Antti
Chatfield
Kochetkov (3 games)
Drury (2 games)
Noesen (2 games)

22-23
all those, minus TDA, add Burns
Coghlan for a minute, and still is with the team but ahl only this year.

no real point, just presented for whatever its worth

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I also don't see how any team has a 7-8 year window.

Your team with Crosby / Malkin won its cup in 2009, then again in 2016 and 2017. So a 7-8 year window.

 

[Gurglesons]

Your team with Crosby / Malkin won its cup in 2009, then again in 2016 and 2017. So a 7-8 year window.

The Penguins essentially had 3 players from the 2009 cup team contribute to the cup in 2016.

And I’d argue the Penguins weren’t serious contenders in several years there.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

The Penguins essentially had 3 players from the 2009 cup team contribute to the cup in 2016.

And I’d argue the Penguins weren’t serious contenders in several years there.

Those are the core players. That was their window. canes made the ECF in 2019 and have had 6 straight 2nd round appearances. Hasn’t their window already been 6 years? Your 7-8 year comment seems odd.

If no teams have a 7 year window, then next year is the last year.

 

[Daeavorn]

Jarvis scored 13 goals and 17 points in 17 games after Guentzel came over.

Guentzel was also your leading scorer. Not sure what else you were expecting lol.



I think it's more being too attached to players. You can sign a player like Jake or whoever to a deal with term, just be prepared to deal it when the time comes.

I was most interested in Jakes playoff performance and it was only okay. His regular season contributions, while excellent, are of less value to me.

It's time for us to look to the future and see what moves we may be making in Free Agency.

 

[Gurglesons]

Those are the core players. That was their window. canes made the ECF in 2019 and have had 6 straight 2nd round appearances. Hasn’t their window already been 6 years? Your 7-8 year comment seems odd.

If no teams have a 7 year window, then next year is the last year.

I don't really believe the Canes have ever been a serious contender for the Stanley Cup outside of this year.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I don't really believe the Canes have ever been a serious contender for the Stanley Cup outside of this year.

That’s good, So our window starts now.! Good to know.

 

[WreckingCrew]

I don't really believe the Canes have ever been a serious contender for the Stanley Cup outside of this year.

That's ok, your opinion is invaluable to us!!!

 

[Chrispy]

If the Canes are letting Necas go, I don't see the issue.

I also don't see how any team has a 7-8 year window.

The Borg doesn't work in windows. The plan is to remain competitive and a contender annually. Will it be competing for the division every year? Probably not in the Metro, but keep comfortably making the playoffs and try to get a hot streak one year.

And I'd argue that part of Florida's success was trading away two very good players like Guentzel when the right opportunity came along (Tkachuk).

 

[Turin]

You know what I don't see though?

A single 82 game season in the last 6 years.

I honestly rather not pay a 30-plus year old for 7+ years if he's going to be fragile.

Uh.. nothing about his year by year games played suggests fragility at all. He regularly plays over 70 games. Last three seasons 76, 78, 67. That 56 game season was a full season.

 

[Buenos Necas]

Just for fun, the "single 82-game season in the last 6 years" thing also happens to be true for Aho, Teravainen, Svechnikov, Necas, Skjei, Pesce, and Orlov. In fact, Burns and Martinook are the only two players on the roster who can claim more than one 82-game season since 2018-2019 (3 and 4 respectively). Even ole Jordo hasn't hit 82 games since the 2015-2016 season.

 

[Blueline Bomber]

Letting Jake go only makes sense if you believe that the team will fill that hole with someone of equal or greater talent. And the organization hasn't been able to do that when we've let players walk away in the past. Thus, I see no reason to believe it'll happen this time around.

We can talk about how we don't need Guentzel and how we need a big, physical scorer instead. I agree, that is what this team lacks. So my question is:

1. Who is available that fits that mold?
And
2. What's it going to cost to acquire them?

And unless this team has an easy answer to both of those questions, letting a talented player like Guentzel go makes little sense.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

We had these same back and forth when we didn’t keep Hamilton. We don’t need a 1 for 1 replacement now like we didn’t then.

 

[Der Jaeger]

Sabres fan here. What are the Canes needs?

From an outsider, your team looks very complete and only gets beat in the playoffs by really good teams with hot goalies (Florida last year, Rangers this season).

It seems from reporting that the team is moving on from Necas and KK.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Blueline Bomber]

We had these same back and forth when we didn’t keep Hamilton. We don’t need a 1 for 1 replacement now like we didn’t then.

Don't we? We replaced Hamilton with TonyD for 1 year, and it worked. Then we replaced him with Burns, and it's kind of worked. But now we're wondering if Burns can hold up for another year, and if he can, at what level of play? Meanwhile, Hamilton still has 4-5 more years on his deal.

So won't the same thing happen here? We replace Guentzel with 3-4 years of a player or two that might do the job of replacing him until we're back in the same boat of "Ok, now what?"

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

Yeah I mean people said the EXACT same thing about how bad the Jordo contract would be at the last years when he signed back in what, 2012? Ended up being nothing because of the rising cap, which is exactly what would happen now, barring another once a century global pandemic

Yea I don’t know about that. How many posters here and elsewhere were saying jordo was overpaid the last 2-3 years of the deal? Trying to trade him off as fast as they could

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

Don't we? We replaced Hamilton with TonyD for 1 year, and it worked. Then we replaced him with Burns, and it's kind of worked. But now we're wondering if Burns can hold up for another year, and if he can, at what level of play? Meanwhile, Hamilton still has 4-5 more years on his deal.

So won't the same thing happen here? We replace Guentzel with 3-4 years of a player or two that might do the job of replacing him until we're back in the same boat of "Ok, now what?"

Seeing how our fortunes haven’t changed without Hamilton, he has been injured 2 out of 3 seasons, and he is getting ready to start his decline I don’t think so.

As long as we can bridge the gap we got guys like Nadeau and Blake coming.

 

[Lempo]

What are the Canes needs?

Someone who understands that if you want pizza, you go to the pizza place. What we currently got is guys loitering at the fringes of the pizza place parking lot.

 

[ElmCityGuy]

Sabres fan here. What are the Canes needs?

From an outsider, your team looks very complete and only gets beat in the playoffs by really good teams with hot goalies (Florida last year, Rangers this season).

It seems from reporting that the team is moving on from Necas and KK.

Thanks in advance.

I'm an average fan with less than average knowledge about hockey but my order of needs are as follows.

1- Need a real 2 C in the worst way.
2- Need a top 6 winger.
3- Need a top line right side Defensemen.

 

[chaz4hockey]

Seeing how our fortunes haven’t changed without Hamilton, he has been injured 2 out of 3 seasons, and he is getting ready to start his decline I don’t think so.

As long as we can bridge the gap we got guys like Nadeau and Blake coming.

You can't project that he would have been injured for the Canes (however in his case, I was Ok with letting him go given his high $ demand). I give the Borg good marks for getting the team competitive and for a couple of very good deals (ie Jarvis) but they sure have made their fair share of mistakes too.

Letting Forsling go for zip and not keeping Hamilton we have not been able to put together a shutdown 1st pair (and it shows up in the playoffs against good teams). Burns is now toast and at a 3rd pair level. Also, by passing on Tro (btw: I suspect he is going to showcase good play deep into his Ranger contract) and instead signing KK, they impaired our ability to win this year (if the team was going to extend Staal then signing KK at $4.8M turns out to be very wasteful).

btw: in some of your remarks you've said Canes need more physicality and bigger forwards. Not going to get that from two more smurfs, ie Nadeau and Blake.

Sabres fan here. What are the Canes needs?

From an outsider, your team looks very complete and only gets beat in the playoffs by really good teams with hot goalies (Florida last year, Rangers this season).

It seems from reporting that the team is moving on from Necas and KK.

Thanks in advance.

Tage Thompson ((although I worry about his back injury history) for Necas ?

 

[Der Jaeger]

Someone who understands that if you want pizza, you go to the pizza place. What we currently got is guys loitering at the fringes of the pizza place parking lot.

Thanks, I think.

I'm an average fan with less than average knowledge about hockey but my order of needs are as follows.

1- Need a real 2 C in the worst way.
2- Need a top 6 winger.
3- Need a top line right side Defencemen.

Buffalo wouldn’t be a great trading partner for really any of that.

1. Trading Thompson or Cozens would set the team back.
2. Peterka?
3. Jokiharju? He’s not a top pair D though.

You can't project that he would have been injured for the Canes (however in his case, I was Ok with letting him go given his high $ demand). I give the Borg good marks for getting the team competitive and for a couple of very good deals (ie Jarvis) but they sure have made their fair share of mistakes too.

Letting Forsling go for zip and not keeping Hamilton we have not been able to put together a shutdown 1st pair (and it shows up in the playoffs against good teams). Burns is now toast and at a 3rd pair level. Also, by passing on Tro (btw: I suspect he is going to showcase good play deep into his Ranger contract) and instead signing KK, they impaired our ability to win this year (if the team was going to extend Staal then signing KK at $4.8M turns out to be very wasteful).

btw: in some of your remarks you've said Canes need more physicality and bigger forwards. Not going to get that from two more smurfs, ie Nadeau and Blake.


Tage Thompson ((although I worry about his back injury history) for Necas ?

Buffalo needs a 3C so moving Thompson for Necas is a lateral move for the Sabres, assuming Necas could be a center who plays Thompson’s minutes.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

You can't project that he would have been injured for the Canes (however in his case, I was Ok with letting him go given his high $ demand). I give the Borg good marks for getting the team competitive and for a couple of very good deals (ie Jarvis) but they sure have made their fair share of mistakes too.

Letting Forsling go for zip and not keeping Hamilton we have not been able to put together a shutdown 1st pair (and it shows up in the playoffs against good teams). Burns is now toast and at a 3rd pair level. Also, by passing on Tro (btw: I suspect he is going to showcase good play deep into his Ranger contract) and instead signing KK, they impaired our ability to win this year (if the team was going to extend Staal then signing KK at $4.8M turns out to be very wasteful).

btw: in some of your remarks you've said Canes need more physicality and bigger forwards. Not going to get that from two more smurfs, ie Nadeau and Blake.


Tage Thompson ((although I worry about his back injury history) for Necas ?

Im just pointing out how it worked for us. It may or may not work out this time. But I would bet it will be more in our favor than not.

Burns isn’t toast. He just can’t be the only defensive guy we have. Which he was for most of the playoffs.

 

[LakeLivin]

GMing sure is easy if you ignore the overall impact of a hard salary cap. Just sayin . . .

 

[chaz4hockey]

Im just pointing out how it worked for us. It may or may not work out this time. But I would bet it will be more in our favor than not.

Burns isn’t toast. He just can’t be the only defensive guy we have. Which he was for most of the playoffs.

Hopefully the moves this summer will pan out. Right now, I’m pessimistic.

I do think Burns is a 3rd pair right now given decline in speed coupled with a decline in shot accuracy during the playoffs. I want Slavin to have a true defensive partner so Canes will have a first set that is very tough to play against.

One thing that has surprised me about Burns is that for a big guy he plays “smaller” (Tro pissed him off a bit and he responded to that but outside of that not much). It probably accounts why he has the extended game streak.

FWIW: I like 3rd pairs to be physical guys so even there I’m not sure he is a good fit anymore. Just my opinion of course.