Speculation: Roster Building Thread XXXIV: Walk the line into the ring of fire

[PuckLuck3043]

Better than abysmal is indeed better. Ask Shesty.

It's actually been much better than absymal and been pretty good lately, But hey, you think what you want to think.

 

[bleedblue94]

Nvm, I see he has a nmc starting at expansion draft

 

[Avery16]

A very nice deal for the Bruins, pulling in a 24-year-old winger Ondrej Kase from the Ducks on Friday, maybe even Charlie Coyle-ish, but it is doubtful Boston is finished attempting to bulk up in the Eastern arms race any more than their direct competition in Tampa Bay in the wake of the Lightning’s addition of Blake Coleman.

https://nypost.com/2020/02/22/dynastic-islanders-deserve-unprecedented-hall-of-fame-honor/

 

[Avery16]

I'm just curious, does trouba have a no movement clause or anything right now? Would we have to protect him in the expansion draft? I know there would be a legitimate risk to losing him, but IF we need another protection slot for a young player that's excelling, what's wrong with this? I know some will claim bad asset management, but if we have exceptional depth on the right side and we have extra young players that we want to protect at that point it could be a risk worth taking to see if Seattle would even claim him

his trade protections kick in this summer and will be in full effect at the expansion draft.

 

[NYRangers0723]

Does everyone really believe Colorado is 100% out?

personally I do. I may be wrong but I’m pretty confident. I do think teams are starting to get the sense that it’s becoming more of a possibility CK may stay.
I wanted to ask Edge because I’m not sure but I’ve heard Gorton and CK is ok with 6 years but just the annual money is still being discussed. Not saying it will happen but still

 

[Matt Rentfree]

I'm just curious, does trouba have a no movement clause or anything right now? Would we have to protect him in the expansion draft? I know there would be a legitimate risk to losing him, but IF we need another protection slot for a young player that's excelling, what's wrong with this? I know some will claim bad asset management, but if we have exceptional depth on the right side and we have extra young players that we want to protect at that point it could be a risk worth taking to see if Seattle would even claim him

I'm pretty sure the NMC kicks in next season - right now we technically could trade him.

EDIT: Capfriendly is no help - doesn't have him listed as having a NMC at all but I thought there was one?

EDIT#2 - here we go: NMC from next season through 2024. CLAUSE DETAILS: 2024-25: Player submits a 15 team no trade list; 2025-26: Player submits a 12 team no trade list

 

[duhmetreE]

I thought the cap was $79m, so I botched that. I saw the old 31 Thoughts quote too. I guess I'm conservative and not basing my plans on what some teams are hopeful for, but rarely get right.

But for argument's sake, it's $85m next year. When I threw all those numbers at you for next year, I pegged Kreider at $6.2. That's completely unrealistic. You think Lemieux doesn't sniff $2.5m. Fine. Give his extra .5 to Kreider, probably still light, but I'm giving you the benefit of the best case scenario.

The Rangers still exceed the cap substantially. You are super confident that you can trade out Staal, Smith and Lundqvist with zero precedent here. You are super confident we can remove Skjei with no money coming back, extremely rare in today's NHL. You are super confident a left side of ADA, Lindgren and Hajek is an upgrade despite poor showings from Hajek and no evidence of Deangelo even showing competence on that side. Super confident the arbitrator doesn't give any of these guys substantial raises.

That's a pattern. Everything breaks Gorton's way with no historical precedents, no evidence, and low probabilities of most of those things happening. Everyone improves throughout the entire lineup. There are contradictions, like Gorton making these investments to push for it now but conveniently ignoring the left side.

If a few things go according to historical examples, we can be in bad shape, TML level bad. Always chasing the solution but perpetually hamstrung by your old missteps. Strome and ADA can absolutely kill it in arbitration and walk out of there with a 1 or 2 year deal, licking their chops for the next negotiation. We could get shut out on the salary dump trades. We could get forced to take back money for Skjei or Buch. Any of those young d can stumble. Georgiev can sign in the KHL because of lowball offers or the 3 headed monster. We could lose guys to offer sheets, which I admit is very unlikely and rare.

I just see more pitfalls and issues than perfect breaks and new helpers through the league.

You want precedent for dumping Staal and/or Smith? Teams dump cap all the time. Boston just did it with Backes. Teams don't do favors, they're compensated.

TML are being led by kids and paying their kids Ufa money. Ironically that's what it sounds like some people want here.

Shesty is in his prime and as good as it gets.

Our offense is stacked and only gong to get better .

Our Rhd is stacked.

We could use some bottom 6 depth.... Should not be hard for a competent GM to acquire.

LhD can use some help, hence Ada moving there (where it was just previously posted, he played as a junior) . Lindgren is a rock. There's a decent chance one of Miller, Robertson, Jones, Rykov and Hajek could fill that role.


I still don't see any crazy risk... I see all the pieces of the puzzle coming together

 

[duhmetreE]

I don't see this team through the same color glasses as others. We're 4 back and now we're contenders?

All I see is a team that just cannot defend. AT ALL

Right now Shesty is looking like a young Hank... fantastic with almost zero help in front of him.

And if we had the offense we have bow, we would have won.

This team's best defense is its offense. It was on display last night against Carolina.

 

[Avery16]

And if we had the offense we have bow, we would have won.

This team's best defense is its offense. It was on display last night against Carolina.

You also cant win the Cup with one dynamic line. That won't get you past the first round. This is a team of flashes, not a competitor. More moves needed.

 

[DutchShamrock]

You want precedent for dumping Staal and/or Smith? Teams dump cap all the time. Boston just did it with Backes. Teams don't do favors, they're compensated.

TML are being led by kids and paying their kids Ufa money. Ironically that's what it sounds like some people want here.

Shesty is in his prime and as good as it gets.

Our offense is stacked and only gong to get better .

Our Rhd is stacked.

We could use some bottom 6 depth.... Should not be hard for a competent GM to acquire.

LhD can use some help, hence Ada moving there (where it was just previously posted, he played as a junior) . Lindgren is a rock. There's a decent chance one of Miller, Robertson, Jones, Rykov and Hajek could fill that role.


I still don't see any crazy risk... I see all the pieces of the puzzle coming together

Bro, Igor is 20 games into his career. Prime? He could just as easily have a sophomore slump, which is way more frequent than rookies keeping up his pace. Lindgren is a rock? A rookie will come in replace a 45 pt vet d man? ADA will do something from junior, and it will just work out? Again, everything breaks perfect.

Where is OUR precedent for dumping cap? We never pull it off. Boston has eaten cap on their dumps twice. Toronto paid a 1st to dump a contract and will miss the playoffs. They are not a template. Their left side is garbage. They have better scoring than us and they will still miss. That is a cautionary tale. If gorton moves out staal with our 1st next season, he needs to be removed immediately.

Our offense will get better? How? Show me. We will have to subtract to keep 1 player. Panarin is having the second best season for a ranger ever. You can't bank on that again. Or Kreider have career highs two years in a row as a 29 year old. There is no cap to bolster the roster let alone fill holes left by buch or strome.

No problem acquiring bottom 6 help? We haven't done that in years and we had cap back then.

I'm giving you firm examples. All of your answers are unicorns. It's not just getting one single break, it is all of the stars aligning.

None of the above is a crazy risk?

 

[offdacrossbar]

If Brendan Smith can do it, lets just say it probably isnt brain surgery.

can he ? hes brutal.

you take an average player and make them brendan smith

you take a smart talented player like ADA and make their job a lot tougher.

theres reason coaches and players both want a left right thing on D pairs.

its may not be brian surgery, but it sure aint easy.

 

[PuckLuck3043]

You also cant win the Cup with one dynamic line. That won't get you past the first round. This is a team of flashes, not a competitor. More moves needed.

We actually have 2 lines that can score but yes more work is needed.

 

[Avery16]

can he ? hes brutal.

you take an average player and make them brendan smith

you take a smart talented player like ADA and make their job a lot tougher.

theres reason coaches and players both want a left right thing on D pairs.

its may not be brian surgery, but it sure aint easy.

My response was somewhat tongue-in-cheek, but ADA shows great promise and excelled in the OHL playing the off side with a defenseman inferior to Trouba. I think its safe to say that Trouba would get the defensive assignments in that tandem. I think ADA will be fine making passes and carrying up the left side.

 

[Avery16]

We actually have 2 lines that can score but yes more work is needed.

Id characterize it more as KZB, and Panarin plus two freeloaders. But Panarin can only carry two forwards at a time, unfortunately.

 

[broadwayblue]

Let's say we sign Kreider for 6 years at 7M per. Who do we lose to get under the cap?

 

[NYRangers0723]

Id characterize it more as KZB, and Panarin plus two freeloaders. But Panarin can only carry two forwards at a time, unfortunately.

I think you make fair points. I do agree Panarin carries that line but I do give Strome credit. Fast isn’t a top 6 player we know that but has played well. Just wish he had more offense in his game

 

[NYRangers0723]

Let's say we sign Kreider for 6 years at 7M per. Who do we lose to get under the cap?

Skjei?

 

[Avery16]

I think you make fair points. I do agree Panarin carries that line but I do give Strome credit. Fast isn’t a top 6 player we know that but has played well. Just wish he had more offense in his game

Oh I love Fast, and Strome is a pleasant surprise this season. But neither are top-sixers without a Panarin or a Zibanejad on their line.

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

 

[NYRangers0723]

Oh I love Fast, and Strome is a pleasant surprise this season. But neither are top-sixers without a Panarin or a Zibanejad on their line

.

oh I agree. I guess I meant even though neither are too 6 guys they have made it work with Panarin even though he is the main force

 

[broadwayblue]

Skjei?

If that's all I'm not entirely opposed to it. What can we get for Skjei?

 

[NYRangers0723]

If that's all I'm not entirely opposed to it. What can we get for Skjei?

I mean it depends. He is still young with years of control. I would think a mixture of a high pick and a good prospect/young player

 

[Fitzy]

Let's say we sign Kreider for 6 years at 7M per. Who do we lose to get under the cap?

Probably DeAngelo, which is just one of the many reasons I think that is a bad idea.

Buchnevich+Strome is another possibility.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Skjei is one of those guys who I think has more value around the league than he does here.

We'd do well in a trade for him.

 

[Tawnos]

There is no cap recapture penalty on Lundqvist contract. It fits all the required specifications of a conforming contract, most specifically that any year cannot be less then 50% the highest paying year of the contract.

I'm sure others could word that better then I but that's the gist of it.

This is false. 100% false. Of course it fits as a conforming contract, because it was signed under the current CBA. But that actually doesn’t have anything to do with cap recapture. It’s entirely the amount of cap saved spread out over the remaining term of the contract.

Article 50.5 doesn’t include any language about anything about deals that violate contract rules. It applies to an Long-Term Contract (6+ years)