Roster Building Thread VI (2022-23): Offseason edition

[HFsNumber1Heel]

People skipping over having big tough guys who control the slot on both ends (eww gross gimme skill) and zeroing in on getting by with a sixth string goalie for 800k is pretty on brand.

The team is essentially set for next season with one or two more cosmetic moves which may or may not occur prior to the TDL. We're all talking more long term approach.

 

[SRHRangers]

Lol let’s trade all our best players but don’t you dare suggest trading the two busts

Let's be fair. The handling of Kakko from Day 1 is an absolute abortion.

Quinn had a 2ov playing a checking line role and benching him if he didn't back check hard enough. Gave him zero opportunity.

Better men have been shot for less than what Quinn did with Kakko.

And in spite of all of this, Kakko has still managed to become a solid 2way forward that still just needs the time and opportunity.

LaF.....I'm a little more concerned about, but again, the same reasoning. What 1ov was put on a 3rd like with no PP time???

It wouldn't of matter if it was Hughes and /or Stuzle in this situation. Ottawa and NJ let them learn on the fly, make mistakes, but gave them the minutes and the PP time to grow.

I would call Rangers management the busts here.

 

[SRHRangers]

And to top it off, Panarin for some strange reason, barely if ever played with our 2ov pick.

And it looked like he avoided like the plague like Kakko banged his girlfriend or something.

 

[effen]

Those Kakko posts are pretty revisionist. At no point was Kakko put in a checking role. He was a terrible slow weak player his rookie year.

He got demoted because he was bad and only stayed up because of optics.

I'd say a pretty big reason he's a good 2 way player now is the emphasis the org put on non scoring things. The tension with him is would he have been a better player with a mandate to play offensively.

 

[haohmaru]

I was thinking more the Rangers and never having the cap space to get a #1 center among other things.

Who was available that they couldn't get because of cap space?

 

[SRHRangers]

Those Kakko posts are pretty revisionist. At no point was Kakko put in a checking role. He was a terrible slow weak player his rookie year.

He got demoted because he was bad and only stayed up because of optics.

I'd say a pretty big reason he's a good 2 way player now is the emphasis the org put on non scoring things. The tension with him is would he have been a better player with a mandate to play offensively.

Tell me the 1ov and 2ov that were tossed on a 3rd line with zero PP opportunity?

Also, the only time I remember Quinn giving Kakko any chance was two times.

1. In the bubble.
2. A 2-3 game scretch where Kakko was put on Stromes wing with Panarin. He scored two in one game, and then was taken off the line.

It's not revisionist history. They Yo-yo'd the shit out of KK.

They flat out mishandled a 2ov, and a 1ov. Whether it was Kakko should've played a season in Finland, LaF working on skating, etc etc

If I'm a Sharks fan, I do not want Quinn allowed to have any part of their kids.

And I was hitting that bell during it was happening. It's not revisionist with me.

 

[effen]

Tell me the 1ov and 2ov that were tossed on a 3rd line with zero PP opportunity?

Also, the only time I remember Quinn giving Kakko any chance was two times.

1. In the bubble.
2. A 2-3 game scretch where Kakko was put on Stromes wing with Panarin. He scored two in one game, and then was taken off the line.

It's not revisionist history. They Yo-yo'd the shit out of KK.

They flat out mishandled a 2ov, and a 1ov. Whether it was Kakko should've played a season in Finland, LaF working on skating, etc etc

If I'm a Sharks fan, I do not want Quinn allowed to have any part of their kids.

And I was hitting that bell during it was happening. It's not revisionist with me.

He has started every year as the 2nd line RW and on the PP. He lost both spots multiple times by merit.

 

[Lindberg Cheese]

Tell me the 1ov and 2ov that were tossed on a 3rd line with zero PP opportunity?

Also, the only time I remember Quinn giving Kakko any chance was two times.

1. In the bubble.
2. A 2-3 game scretch where Kakko was put on Stromes wing with Panarin. He scored two in one game, and then was taken off the line.

It's not revisionist history. They Yo-yo'd the shit out of KK.

They flat out mishandled a 2ov, and a 1ov. Whether it was Kakko should've played a season in Finland, LaF working on skating, etc etc

If I'm a Sharks fan, I do not want Quinn allowed to have any part of their kids.

And I was hitting that bell during it was happening. It's not revisionist with me.

Are you advocating that high draft picks be gifted top roles?

 

[IDvsEGO]

He has started every year as the 2nd line RW and on the PP. He lost both spots multiple times by merit.

I wont argue his play in his first year earned him a demotion from the first line.
But lets not also argue that the hook came awfully quick.

Are you advocating that high draft picks be gifted top roles?

I think yes, you do need to give high draft picks that top opportunity if you want them to hit the ground running.
I think you need to live with mistakes they make, and coach around them and not give them a hook.
If you've actually drafted a talented player, then they need to play in a role that suits that. Playing into strengths, not starting off eliminating weaknesses.

 

[SRHRangers]

Are you advocating that high draft picks be gifted top roles?

Did you see Hughes and Stuz their rookie years?

They were atrocious, but the team gave them the playing time and allowed them to have growing pains. They were paid off in doing so.

I'm not saying Kakko was even good his rookie year, but he got zero opportunity. Zero leeway.

 

[NickyFotiu]

Did you see Hughes and Stuz their rookie years?

They were atrocious, but the team gave them the playing time and allowed them to have growing pains. They were paid off in doing so.

I'm not saying Kakko was even good his rookie year, but he got zero opportunity. Zero leeway.

I think Tim got 15 minutes and KK got 14 minutes as rookies.

 

[Levitate]

Those Kakko posts are pretty revisionist. At no point was Kakko put in a checking role. He was a terrible slow weak player his rookie year.

He got demoted because he was bad and only stayed up because of optics.

I'd say a pretty big reason he's a good 2 way player now is the emphasis the org put on non scoring things. The tension with him is would he have been a better player with a mandate to play offensively.

Yeah he wasn’t ready his first year. I think ragging on The pick because people said he was NHL ready at the draft is silly since his biggest problem was processing the game and playing with less space and more aggressive players

 

[BobMarleyNYR]

He has started every year as the 2nd line RW and on the PP. He lost both spots multiple times by merit.

In both cases, they just haven't performed well enough to get the minutes people want.

 

[Levitate]

In both cases, they just haven't performed well enough to get the minutes people want.

Im more grumpy about last season when Kakko started with zib and Kreider and the line generated a ton of chances but Kakko got the boot when they struggled to convert grade A chances
That line would have almost certainly started scoring as the poor shooting luck changed but instead we got a line flip

 

[mas0764]

I'll put one of you guys in goal before I offer Shesterkin his next contract.

It's not something I even have to think about. I would let him play it out, just cold ass walk away, and sleep like a baby about it.

Trade him for a haul.

 

[LaffyTaffyNYR]

A team who sent a letter out about a rebuild in 2018 had a 1st OA pick playing 3LW and a 2nd OA pick being replaced by guys like Vesey and Goodrow at times.

It’s pretty hilarious really.

 

[Kaapo Cabana]

Yes there are teams built to win Cups. Pretty much every year like you said there's a short list of like 5 teams that are favorites to win and one of those teams wins and usually one of the other 5 teams loses in the Cup Final. So usually 2 of the 5 make it to the Final.

Parity is the biggest lie the NHL pushes. The only outliers over the last 20 years were CAR, ANA, WSH, COL, VGK. All the other Cup winners and runner ups were repeats. 15 of the last 20 Cup Finals were repeat appearances and/or repeat winners. If you go back further it gets more ridiculous. NJD, DET, COL, PIT, EDM, NYI, MTL... how many repeat winners dominated over the years.

There is no such things as parity in the NHL. The blueprint for success is plain and obvious. Yes the Rangers think they'll revolutionize the league? They've been trying since 95 and it hasn't worked that way. You can't fill a team with mercenaries and expect to win. You need to build. No team wins a Stanley Cup without their top high picks leading the way. Vegas might be the only exception to the rule because they were an expansion team that benefitted from rigged expansion draft rules. But, they took young players and made them franchise players.

Rangers think they can sabotage their own high picks and buy a Cup. They've had that mentality for decades and it hasn't worked. Meanwhile there are repeat Champs doing the complete opposite of what the Rangers do. Even the one off Champs do it the same way the repeats do it.

Championships are built, not bought.

3 of those teams you mentioned happened in the last five years. Kinda flies in the face of your argument.

Edit: 4 out of 6. You forgot STL

And fyi, Vegas just bought a championship.

 

[FIRE DRURY]

@Machinehead tell me the name of the goalie that beat you up at the bus stop. I will avenge you!!!

In all seriousness, we’ve seen good teams win with average goalies. We saw what happened during Lundqvist’s career and yeah, we probably want to avoid that. But the teams Henrik had in front of him compared to Igor’s is night and day, aside from the 2014 season.

If we pay a different goalie 4-5M a year instead of giving Igor 8M, we’ll possibly have money for another quality forward. Is that forward + a decent goalie going to impact the game more than having Shesty? I don’t think so.

MH I get you’d rather see cap space invested towards a forward or dman.. But let’s be real here, that 1 forward or dman you’re adding with the difference you’re saving from Shesty to an average goalie isn’t going to change the team much. We’re not going to go from a good team to a great team with that addition.

I think the real issue here is icing a team that doesn’t have to rely on their goaltending. That’s on your coaching and GM. We’ve sucked ass 5v5 forever. Let’s hope Laviollete and the coaching staff implements a system that keeps the puck in the other teams zone for a change.

 

[Machinehead]

Trade him for a haul.

He won't even get a haul. Teams are getting crunched by the cap and wising up to what the value of goaltenders actually is.

 

[Machinehead]

@Machinehead tell me the name of the goalie that beat you up at the bus stop. I will avenge you!!!

In all seriousness, we’ve seen good teams win with average goalies. We saw what happened during Lundqvist’s career and yeah, we probably want to avoid that. But the teams Henrik had in front of him compared to Igor’s is night and day, aside from the 2014 season.

If we pay a different goalie 4-5M a year instead of giving Igor 8M, we’ll possibly have money for another quality forward. Is that forward + a decent goalie going to impact the game more than having Shesty? I don’t think so.

MH I get you’d rather see cap space invested towards a forward or dman.. But let’s be real here, that 1 forward or dman you’re adding with the difference you’re saving from Shesty to an average goalie isn’t going to change the team much. We’re not going to go from a good team to a great team with that addition.

I think the real issue here is icing a team that doesn’t have to rely on their goaltending. That’s on your coaching and GM. We’ve sucked ass 5v5 forever. Let’s hope Laviollete and the coaching staff implements a system that keeps the puck in the other teams zone for a change.

We've sucked ass 5v5 forever because this team has had a crutch in the crease since 2006.

I don't just want a cheaper goalie, I actively want one the front office has to tiptoe around.

Give me Matt Murray and his career .780 or whatever the f*** it is. Let's see how good our GM is.

 

[FIRE DRURY]

We've sucked ass 5v5 forever because this team has had a crutch in the crease since 2006.

I don't just want a cheaper goalie, I actively want one the front office has to tiptoe around.

Give me Matt Murray and his career .780 or whatever the f*** it is. Let's see how good our GM is.

So you’re saying we should put a turd in net In hopes the team is forced to assemble a better roster + system? Yeah, I’m not down with seeing that science experiment.

 

[effen]

A team who sent a letter out about a rebuild in 2018 had a 1st OA pick playing 3LW and a 2nd OA pick being replaced by guys like Vesey and Goodrow at times.

It’s pretty hilarious really.

Better than Goodrow and Vesey is apparently a bar too high for a 2nd overall pick. Unlucky.

 

[Machinehead]

So you’re saying we should put a turd in net In hopes the team is forced to assemble a better roster + system? Yeah, I’m not down with seeing that science experiment.

Yes.

I have very little hope of this team improving 5v5 until their goaltending gets worse.

It's been how many years? They play the way they do because they it's good.

 

[huerter]

Laf, Chytil and Kakko are all great players who just need to play with other great players to take off.

 

[80s Kid]

Yes.

I have very little hope of this team improving 5v5 until their goaltending gets worse.

It's been how many years? They play the way they do because they it's good.

I don't exactly agree with trading Shesty to prove a point, however, I do think his play covers up for a lot of mistakes. Absolutely agree that this team needs to be better 5v5 but would like to see how the team is under Lavi for a bit.

I can't prove it and not a hockey genius but the way this team played under Gallant was maddening to watch at times despite having some success. There has to be a more efficient way getting the puck out of the D zone than just waiting behind the net for the perfect stretch pass that rarely develops. Hopefully this team is more committed to forechecking as well.

During the playoff runs under Torts and AV I feel like we were the best in the league at winning puck battles along the boards and now we would be lucky to be half as good. Obviously different teams with limited firepower back then but I'm curious if these elements can be emphasized under Lavi for better 5v5.