Roster Building Thread VI (2022-23): Offseason edition

[Fitzy]

Actual Marc Staal or what people thought Marc Staal was long after he was that?

Hopefully the answer to your question determines whether he makes the NHL or not.

 

[savebyrichter94]

I'll put one of you guys in goal before I offer Shesterkin his next contract.

It's not something I even have to think about. I would let him play it out, just cold ass walk away, and sleep like a baby about it.

 

[GENESISPuck94]

I'll put one of you guys in goal before I offer Shesterkin his next contract.

It's not something I even have to think about. I would let him play it out, just cold ass walk away, and sleep like a baby about it.

If he wants a Lundqvist kind of contract i agree. We've seen what happened when the G position is taking up too much of the cap. We either learn from that or repeat it.

 

[haohmaru]

If he wants a Lundqvist kind of contract i agree. We've seen what happened when the G position is taking up too much of the cap. We either learn from that or repeat it.

Florida in the Final?

 

[LaffyTaffy13]

I'll put one of you guys in goal before I offer Shesterkin his next contract.

It's not something I even have to think about. I would let him play it out, just cold ass walk away, and sleep like a baby about it.

Lol these takes are insane.

Idk why some people act like goalie doesnt matter. Then point to aidin hill as an example but fail to recognize that
A) his D was ELITE
B) he was 6th out of the 28 goalies who played in the playoffs in goals saves above expected per 60.

I guess vasey never helped tampa.

I guess its just coincidence that od goalies with more than 4 games played in the 17-18 playoffs that the top 2 in goals saved above expected wound up in the cup

Florida in the Final?

Tampa in 3 straight? Haha. The past 4 years the east team in the final have had the top 2 cap hits of any goalies in net. Oh and technically over the past 4 years 3 east teams have played in cups (tampa, florida and montreal). Now what do these teams all have in common? Oh, they had the 3 highest cap hits of any goalies in league history

 

[Synergy27]

Yes the Rangers think they'll revolutionize the league? They've been trying since 95 and it hasn't worked that way. You can't fill a team with mercenaries and expect to win. You need to build.

While I get what you are saying, this Ranger team is certainly not full of mercenaries. The team’s best players were acquired through the draft (Shesterkin, Kreider) or through deft/lucky trades while the players were still young (Fox and Zib). The old Ranger mercenary teams were trying to sign average players (Holik, Gomez, Drury, Redden, etc.) to come in and be the best players on the team.

The “problem” still remains that the circumstances surrounding the Rangers drafting Kakko and Laf were and still are unprecedented. A bubble team with a lot of talent on it already won two lotteries in a row. Those kids went to an already pretty good team with good, young players slotted in above them.

It would not have made sense to blow it up completely at that point. Zibanejad and 2021 Panarin are the kinds of players that you hope your 1 and 2OA develop into.

I think this team’s problems remain overstated. They are actually pretty simple, though admittedly hard to correct:

1. Panarin makes too much money and apparently sucks in the playoffs. It doesn’t seem like a good idea to have the league’s third highest player on the wing. It’s a terrible idea when it’s become clear that said player was either permanently changed by Tom Wilson or aging out of his playoff effectiveness window.

2. Trouba makes too much money. If he was being paid in accordance with his role, this team would have several millions additional dollars to acquire depth.

In spite of the above, this team is a legitimate contender for the Cup. This isn’t a dark years mercenary squad at all.

 

[Fitzy]

The obvious tradeoff with Shesty is that if he comes out next season and posts a .915-.918 again, he's clearly an above average goalie, but not at the level that you build a team around. So far the Vezina season looks more the exception than the rule.

If on the other hand he comes out and wins the Vezina again next year with some sort of .940 effort, you have to consider whether this guy (who will then cost 8 figures) is good enough to win a cup for an otherwise average team.

Stats folks say that goalies don't matter much because they are streaky and it's all about who gets hot when. But if you have a .940 goalie, the odds are much higher that he's going to be on a hot streak at any given time in the playoffs than a .900 one. So it does matter in that respect. It's just whether that's worth the cap allocation; and I'd much rather have the best goalie in the league behind us than another Trouba/Panarin addition. Just IMO

 

[Ruggs225]

I'll put one of you guys in goal before I offer Shesterkin his next contract.

It's not something I even have to think about. I would let him play it out, just cold ass walk away, and sleep like a baby about it.

I feel the same way but conditionally. My condition is that Garand needs to be ready and above average to take over.

I wouldnt want to just go with nothing except whatever scraps were in FA. Nor would i want to trade assets for a goalie.

So if garand is ready to take over the reigns i would also let Shesty walk.

Edit: this is also why i feel a team should draft a goalie in the late rounds every single year. So there is always someone talent coming. While a goalie wont singlehandedly win you a cup, he can lose you one

 

[haohmaru]

I feel the same way but conditionally. My condition is that Garand needs to be ready and above average to take over.

I wouldnt want to just go with nothing except whatever scraps were in FA. Nor would i want to trade assets for a goalie.

So if garand is ready to take over the reigns i would also let Shesty walk.

Can't "let Shesty walk." - if this is the road the Rangers go down, they need to trade him for major assets even if that means at the trade deadline.

 

[LaffyTaffy13]

Can't "let Shesty walk." - if this is the road the Rangers go down, they need to trade him for major assets even if that means at the trade deadline.

The rangers arent letting sheshty walk lol. This whole convo is insane. He’ll be here for at least another decade

 

[Levitate]

Everyone says “you can find an average goalie anywhere “ until they spend years trying to find one that won’t melt down at the wrong time or will get hot at the right time

 

[EdJovanovski]

Lol let’s trade all our best players but don’t you dare suggest trading the two busts

 

[ArPanet]

I don’t think there is any question about this re: the contracts.

The Trouba deal is one that I dislike in hindsight. The good news is that it won’t be that difficult to move if the team feels the desire to move on from it (and I’m not sure they will.) So many GMs overvalue what he brings to the table but so does ours. We’ll see what happens next summer when the NMC turns into a partial NTC.

I’ve hated Panarin’s contract since the second it was signed and I hate it even more now. Every single thing I foresaw with that deal has happened or is in the process of happening and he’s going to be a tougher move. It’s also structured in a way that makes it pretty much buyout proof. This is the deal that nuked the rebuild from pretty much the very angle.

I hope that he doesn’t decline heavily this year. If he’s still about what he was last year someone will be desperate enough to want him with only a 2 year commitment.

We could have lived with one of these contracts. Tough to put anything together with both of them.

Panarin will be good again in the last year of this contract. Where that will be...?

 

[McRanger92]

Igor is the franchise. Garand’s ceiling is probably Cam Talbot. Shouldn’t even be a discussion that Igor is re-signed

 

[GENESISPuck94]

Florida in the Final?

I was thinking more the Rangers and never having the cap space to get a #1 center among other things.

 

[Raspewtin]

Florida in the Final?

counterpoint; vegas using three goaltenders in their run

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Oh, we are at that stage again where "You only need an average goalie to win a cup, trade Igor" time of the offseason already?

 

[HFsNumber1Heel]

Haha idk where some of you guys get these thoughts. Trade the best goalie in the nhl at the tdl when your aspirations are to win a cup? Lol


Not every year of every contract will be great. The early years, igor will be underpaid, the later years he will be overpaid

Rude. I never said they HAVE to trade or walk away from Igor, only it's an option to consider and at least talk about in a fictional online message board roster building section. The reality is, most likely, yes, they keep him and give him "the big extension", however we literally just saw a well rounded team with depth and Aidan Hill win a Cup, and the Rangers from their previous competitive era one could make the argument shortened their window due to the huge Lundqvist extension and having to constantly shed players who could perform in the post season like Hagelin.

No one knows what Garand will be and how quickly he will develop. He could be ready as soon as this season, we could see a situation with Quick like Biron in 2013-14 where he's toast, or Garand doesn't even sniff the NHL until fall 2024 at which point Igor is locked up.

 

[Levitate]

I was thinking more the Rangers and never having the cap space to get a #1 center among other things.

Mikka’s a number 1 and really the only option they had at the time

 

[HFsNumber1Heel]

Oh, we are at that stage again where "You only need an average goalie to win a cup, trade Igor" time of the offseason already?

See my above post. This is not a reality or ultimatum, only scenarios. Yes, Igor is most likely here to stay the next 8-9 years and the highest probability situation is Garand become a cost-controlled backup or 1B (another Giacoman/Villemure or Beezer/Richter tandem).

We can at least discuss arguments for doing either and strange things have happened at the NHL level dawg.

The obvious tradeoff with Shesty is that if he comes out next season and posts a .915-.918 again, he's clearly an above average goalie, but not at the level that you build a team around. So far the Vezina season looks more the exception than the rule.

If on the other hand he comes out and wins the Vezina again next year with some sort of .940 effort, you have to consider whether this guy (who will then cost 8 figures) is good enough to win a cup for an otherwise average team.

Stats folks say that goalies don't matter much because they are streaky and it's all about who gets hot when. But if you have a .940 goalie, the odds are much higher that he's going to be on a hot streak at any given time in the playoffs than a .900 one. So it does matter in that respect. It's just whether that's worth the cap allocation; and I'd much rather have the best goalie in the league behind us than another Trouba/Panarin addition. Just IMO

He had a kid last season. Willing to give him the benefit of the doubt with adjusting to that/naps at home/goalie prep interruptions. He was great in the playoffs.

Let's see how this all unfolds with Laviolette and Housely's new system and also where Garand is.

 

[HFsNumber1Heel]

Igor is the franchise. Garand’s ceiling is probably Cam Talbot. Shouldn’t even be a discussion that Igor is re-signed

It's the offseason, we are absolutely allowed to talk about hypothetically allocating cap to different areas especially in 2-3 years when the big contracts are up.

While I get what you are saying, this Ranger team is certainly not full of mercenaries. The team’s best players were acquired through the draft (Shesterkin, Kreider) or through deft/lucky trades while the players were still young (Fox and Zib). The old Ranger mercenary teams were trying to sign average players (Holik, Gomez, Drury, Redden, etc.) to come in and be the best players on the team.

The “problem” still remains that the circumstances surrounding the Rangers drafting Kakko and Laf were and still are unprecedented. A bubble team with a lot of talent on it already won two lotteries in a row. Those kids went to an already pretty good team with good, young players slotted in above them.

It would not have made sense to blow it up completely at that point. Zibanejad and 2021 Panarin are the kinds of players that you hope your 1 and 2OA develop into.

I think this team’s problems remain overstated. They are actually pretty simple, though admittedly hard to correct:

1. Panarin makes too much money and apparently sucks in the playoffs. It doesn’t seem like a good idea to have the league’s third highest player on the wing. It’s a terrible idea when it’s become clear that said player was either permanently changed by Tom Wilson or aging out of his playoff effectiveness window.

2. Trouba makes too much money. If he was being paid in accordance with his role, this team would have several millions additional dollars to acquire depth.

In spite of the above, this team is a legitimate contender for the Cup. This isn’t a dark years mercenary squad at all.

The simplest fix is for Kakko/Laf to continue to progress and some of the newer kids to play significant roles as cost-controlled ELCs as soon as this season but mostly the next 2-3 (Othmann, Cully, Edstrom, BMB, Sykora, Chlemar, Barbeshav, Vessalian(sp?), and then Perrault). They really need a few of those mid-late round picks to hit as productive players. At minimum two.

 

[effen]

Oh, we are at that stage again where "You only need an average goalie to win a cup, trade Igor" time of the offseason already?

People skipping over having big tough guys who control the slot on both ends (eww gross gimme skill) and zeroing in on getting by with a sixth string goalie for 800k is pretty on brand.

 

[effen]

Lol let’s trade all our best players but don’t you dare suggest trading the two busts

Should still trade Panarin. Closest analog is Gaborik who only won as the 5th best player on the team.

 

[Leonardo87]

I'll put one of you guys in goal before I offer Shesterkin his next contract.

It's not something I even have to think about. I would let him play it out, just cold ass walk away, and sleep like a baby about it.

 

[NickyFotiu]

Mikka’s a number 1 and really the only option they had at the time

What about the times we passed up the chance to sign Crosby, MacKinnon, and McDavid due to lack of cap room?