Roster Building Thread VI (2022-23): Offseason edition

[duhmetreE]

Of course you usually fail before you win. 93% of the playoff teams lose each year.

Ok, now what are the numbers for first timers?

Is it greater than 93%? If so, the logic still applies.

 

[bbny]

I had four teams on my Excel sheet for Goodrow before free agency started

Seattle to reunite him with Gourde. Seattle is no state income tax state. They still have the cap space.
Detroit because their head coach Derek Lalonde was an assistant in TB with Goodrow, Detroit still has space after signing a million players.
Dallas because Pete DeBoer coached Goodrow in SJ. Texas is a no state income tax state. The Stars spent their money on Duchene.
Nashville because Goodrow seems like a Barry Trotz player. Tennessee is another no state income tax state. Nashville has money.

Trade Goodrow to do what? The move should have been made before free agency started. Goodrow for a player who makes less money and is signed for less than 4 years. Maybe.

The landscape might have changed. Perhaps Drury only planned to consider moving Goodrow if something unexpected happened during free agency or on the trade market. It wouldn’t make sense to move him without some assurance that his cap hit could be utilized in a way that improves the team.

 

[pld459666]

8x 8 for a goalie of his caliber is appropriate.
Make the end of the deal very buyout friendly.

Absolutely appropriate.

A goalie of his caliber is also not needed to win

So, get the 6 million starter and a backup for 2 and save 2+ for More important needs at f or D

 

[pld459666]

Wheeler had 50 something points last year. We didn't sign him to be a 4th liner.

Hes absolutely a 2nd liner at worst.

 

[HFsNumber1Heel]

I could buy that consistently being a final four team or having sustained success is something to take pride in…. If it’s also mixed in with a Cup every decade or two. Obviously you can’t win every year and you are showing that you are a winning org that wasn’t a one-off or a fluke. You have staying power organizationally. Look at Boston.

But when you have one Cup in 80 years, Conference Finals losses time and again don’t add to the luster of your franchise. You need to develop a long term winner. “Just trying to win one,” by overinvesting in older players and rentals and then falling short…. just means you failed.

That’s where we are so far. And it’s beginning to look like the youth on hand may not be enough for sustained success.

I’d absolutely go back in time and recommit to the rebuild.

Boston doesn't win that Cup in 2011, the narrative is completely different. They're riding the coattails of Red Sox/Patriots/Celtics. They've had some nice regular seasons. So have the Rangers.

Rangers have been overall a solid franchise since the lockout if you go by playoff appearances and runs. What they need to get over the hump is 1-2 prospects to exceed expectations and be able to play in April-June. That is always the Rangers shortcomings going back to the 70s. Need 1-2 more guys to put them over the top (often who they have given up on, not developed correctly, or the draft pick was traded away).

Othmann needs to be a 55-60 point player who goes to the dirt areas in the postseason, Edstrom needs to be that big guy who gets the puck and just never gives it up on a shift, Cullye needs to be a PITA, Pearault needs to be that cerebral dual scoring threat, and one of Barbashev/Chlemar/Vaisalien/McConnell-Baker/Lamb/etc. insert any low round pick, has to come up out of nowhere and just kick ass.

Hes absolutely a 2nd liner at worst.

Wheeler will either be a 20G-20A guy, or think Tomas Sandstrom on Detroit.

 

[pld459666]

Teams which win Cups usually lose in the playoffs before winning. They lose multiple times. Vegas suffered playoff loses. The Avs didn't win one playoff series and win the Cup the next year. TB suffered humiliating playoff defeats before winning. The Blues would make the playoffs and lose in the first or second round. Pittsburgh lost to the Rangers in back to back years before they won twice.

You have to learn how to play an angry game. You have to NOT be ok with losing.

I, personally, do not believe our guys are there yet.

They play too nice a game, and I think tjat needs to change

Wheeler will either be a 20G-20A guy, or think Tomas Sandstrom on Detroit.

Our whole 3rd line was basically 20/20

I'd hope Wheeler is better than 20/20

 

[HFsNumber1Heel]

You have to learn how to play an angry game. You have to NOT be ok with losing.

I, personally, do not believe our guys are there yet.

They play too nice a game, and I think tjat needs to change



Our whole 3rd line was basically 20/20

I'd hope Wheeler is better than 20/20

He's slow and declining. Still useful but his numbers are going to start going down every year.

The hope is that one of Kakko/Laf increase production to 50ish +.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

You have to learn how to play an angry game. You have to NOT be ok with losing.

I, personally, do not believe our guys are there yet.

They play too nice a game, and I think tjat needs to change



Our whole 3rd line was basically 20/20

I'd hope Wheeler is better than 20/20

Wheeler won’t get PP1 time here or at least he won’t to start. We’ll see Trocheck or Kakko there first most likely.

That’s going to have an impact. Can’t see him replicating even last seasons numbers if he doesn’t play that role. 20-20 at his salary is still a big win.

 

[PuckLuck3043]

I could buy that consistently being a final four team or having sustained success is something to take pride in…. If it’s also mixed in with a Cup every decade or two. Obviously you can’t win every year and you are showing that you are a winning org that wasn’t a one-off or a fluke. You have staying power organizationally. Look at Boston.

But when you have one Cup in 80 years, Conference Finals losses time and again don’t add to the luster of your franchise. You need to develop a long term winner. “Just trying to win one,” by overinvesting in older players and rentals and then falling short…. just means you failed.

That’s where we are so far. And it’s beginning to look like the youth on hand may not be enough for sustained success.

I’d absolutely go back in time and recommit to the rebuild.

What about Boston? They have won 1 cup in 50 years. You always strive to make the playoffs and go on a deep run. It's never meaningless just for the playoff experience alone. I'm sure Florida was pretty happy with their season even though they have never won the cup.

Of course you usually fail before you win. 93% of the playoff teams lose each year.

No kidding.

 

[LaffyTaffyNYR]

I agree that our current window is limited but we have had 2 playoffs in a row. Both were learning experiences especially this year. Question is how far are we. I feel we have talent but some of it is mismatched talent. I feel we lack speed and physicality. Our identity is a slow finesse team. Slow and finesse are not a great combination. Im optimistic about Lavi and his coaches though.

They have a 3 year window unless the kids break out by then tbh. Obviously they are the Rangers so players would want to play in NY but this current team 3 years.

They

I had four teams on my Excel sheet for Goodrow before free agency started

Seattle to reunite him with Gourde. Seattle is no state income tax state. They still have the cap space.
Detroit because their head coach Derek Lalonde was an assistant in TB with Goodrow, Detroit still has space after signing a million players.
Dallas because Pete DeBoer coached Goodrow in SJ. Texas is a no state income tax state. The Stars spent their money on Duchene.
Nashville because Goodrow seems like a Barry Trotz player. Tennessee is another no state income tax state. Nashville has money.

Trade Goodrow to do what? The move should have been made before free agency started. Goodrow for a player who makes less money and is signed for less than 4 years. Maybe.

they might actually be able to move him around the TDL too perhaps if need be to do something else. Teams do crazy stuff at the TDL at times.

 

[LaffyTaffy13]

Absolutely appropriate.

A goalie of his caliber is also not needed to win

So, get the 6 million starter and a backup for 2 and save 2+ for More important needs at f or D

Or just got 8 X 8 on igor and 1 on the backup. Spend $1 mill more than your proposal and have nothing to worry about

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Signing a goalie for 8 years when they’re in their late 20’s is dumb.

The sorokin contract will be a mistake before they get halfway through it. I hope we don’t make the same one.

 

[HFsNumber1Heel]

Wheeler won’t get PP1 time here or at least he won’t to start. We’ll see Trocheck or Kakko there first most likely.

That’s going to have an impact. Can’t see him replicating even last seasons numbers if he doesn’t play that role. 20-20 at his salary is still a big win.

He'll get chances there throughout the year with injuries and if the PP is slumping or they go on a losing streak and Laviolette keeps him there as a spark/"veterans do the right thing". I can see the later.

 

[LaffyTaffy13]

Signing a goalie for 8 years when they’re in their late 20’s is dumb.

The sorokin contract will be a mistake before they get halfway through it. I hope we don’t make the same one.

The contract will carry him until hes 37 if he signs for 8 years. Hanks carried him until 38 and we bought out the final year. Also sheshty will cost more than 8. Probably 9. And its worth it. You can always front load it and trade him on year 7 and 8 to a floor team or buyout if he falls off

 

[HFsNumber1Heel]

The contract will carry him until hes 37 if he signs for 8 years. Hanks carried him until 38 and we bought out the final year. Also sheshty will cost more than 8. Probably 9. And its worth it. You can always front load it and trade him on year 7 and 8 to a floor team or buyout if he falls off

Dylan Garand will have a say in everything. If he gets called up this year and shows he's a capable starter, they could always trade Shesterkin next TDL.

If Garand is not ready or needs another year to develop, then yeah, Igor gets the big contract and Garand could at least be a cost controlled backup or 1B for most of Igor's contract.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

The contract will carry him until hes 37 if he signs for 8 years. Hanks carried him until 38 and we bought out the final year. Also sheshty will cost more than 8. Probably 9. And its worth it. You can always front load it and trade him on year 7 and 8 to a floor team or buyout if he falls off

Hank wasn’t great from 2015-16 onwards which is my point.

You could have gotten what he was from 2015-16 to when he was bought out for much less than he was paid. I get why he was extended, I just don’t think it was a good move.

Same applies for Shesty.

 

[RangerBoy]

The Rangers will need a bigger body.

 

[Kaapo Cabana]

I could buy that consistently being a final four team or having sustained success is something to take pride in…. If it’s also mixed in with a Cup every decade or two. Obviously you can’t win every year and you are showing that you are a winning org that wasn’t a one-off or a fluke. You have staying power organizationally. Look at Boston.

But when you have one Cup in 80 years, Conference Finals losses time and again don’t add to the luster of your franchise. You need to develop a long term winner. “Just trying to win one,” by overinvesting in older players and rentals and then falling short…. just means you failed.

That’s where we are so far. And it’s beginning to look like the youth on hand may not be enough for sustained success.

I’d absolutely go back in time and recommit to the rebuild.

This is really a terrible way of looking at it. How do you even enjoy watching the games with this attitude? It’s entertainment first and foremost.

I guess Stepans game 7 OT goal in 2015 wasn’t exciting and fun because it didn’t result in us winning a cup that year.

You have the same philosophy as Ron hextall; a garbage GM who just kept biding his time until he got fired…twice

 

[haohmaru]

This is really a terrible way of looking at it. How do you even enjoy watching the games with this attitude? It’s entertainment first and foremost.

I guess Stepans game 7 OT goal in 2015 wasn’t exciting and fun because it didn’t result in us winning a cup that year.

You have the same philosophy as Ron hextall; a garbage GM who just kept biding his time until he got fired…twice

It's always easy to Monday morning quarterback the GM's job.

Part of the problem, too, is that the consensus 1OA and 2OA weren't centers which is exactly what the Rangers' luck would be.

How different would this team look if those two years had been reversed? Jack Hughes and Stutzle would've probably been this team's picks. Maybe Byfield.

And you can't even blame the Rangers - they took the guys that everyone else would've picked too.

And now, in the rearview, we should've done this and that when, if we had those two guys in the lineup instead of the two that we have, we'd be a Cup favorite and our priorities (Trocheck) would've never happened.

Part of this is luck, unfortunately.

 

[LaffyTaffyNYR]

It's always easy to Monday morning quarterback the GM's job.

Part of the problem, too, is that the consensus 1OA and 2OA weren't centers which is exactly what the Rangers' luck would be.

How different would this team look if those two years had been reversed? Jack Hughes and Stutzle would've probably been this team's picks. Maybe Byfield.

And you can't even blame the Rangers - they took the guys that everyone else would've picked too.

And now, in the rearview, we should've done this and that when, if we had those two guys in the lineup instead of the two that we have, we'd be a Cup favorite and our priorities (Trocheck) would've never happened.

Part of this is luck, unfortunately.

I would’ve taken Lafreniere but unfortunately they had Panarin and Kreider then too already.

 

[mas0764]

What about Boston? They have won 1 cup in 50 years. You always strive to make the playoffs and go on a deep run. It's never meaningless just for the playoff experience alone. I'm sure Florida was pretty happy with their season even though they have never won the cup.

What about Boston? They won a Cup at least and lost two more Finals.

Playoff experience is vastly overrated. Did it help us this year? Not in the slightest.

This is really a terrible way of looking at it. How do you even enjoy watching the games with this attitude? It’s entertainment first and foremost.

I guess Stepans game 7 OT goal in 2015 wasn’t exciting and fun because it didn’t result in us winning a cup that year.

You have the same philosophy as Ron hextall; a garbage GM who just kept biding his time until he got fired…twice

The Stepan goal was exciting and the time and it was enjoyable. The next round the team crapped the bed and the season was a failure.

The more important takeaway is to build a team designed to win it all and not just a couple rounds. That means sacrifice short term for long term.

It's always easy to Monday morning quarterback the GM's job.

Part of the problem, too, is that the consensus 1OA and 2OA weren't centers which is exactly what the Rangers' luck would be.

How different would this team look if those two years had been reversed? Jack Hughes and Stutzle would've probably been this team's picks. Maybe Byfield.

And you can't even blame the Rangers - they took the guys that everyone else would've picked too.

And now, in the rearview, we should've done this and that when, if we had those two guys in the lineup instead of the two that we have, we'd be a Cup favorite and our priorities (Trocheck) would've never happened.

Part of this is luck, unfortunately.

It’s not Monday morning QBing when you call the mistakes in real-time.

 

[LaffyTaffy13]

Dylan Garand will have a say in everything. If he gets called up this year and shows he's a capable starter, they could always trade Shesterkin next TDL.

If Garand is not ready or needs another year to develop, then yeah, Igor gets the big contract and Garand could at least be a cost controlled backup or 1B for most of Igor's contract.

Haha idk where some of you guys get these thoughts. Trade the best goalie in the nhl at the tdl when your aspirations are to win a cup? Lol

Hank wasn’t great from 2015-16 onwards which is my point.

You could have gotten what he was from 2015-16 to when he was bought out for much less than he was paid. I get why he was extended, I just don’t think it was a good move.

Same applies for Shesty.

Not every year of every contract will be great. The early years, igor will be underpaid, the later years he will be overpaid

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

The Rangers will need a bigger body.

Great defensively, not quite shit offensively but not good.

Seems like a natural replacement for Lindgren if/when the time comes. If the transition numbers aren’t at least passable though I don’t want to deal with it.

 

[duhmetreE]

Hank wasn’t great from 2015-16 onwards which is my point.

You could have gotten what he was from 2015-16 to when he was bought out for much less than he was paid. I get why he was extended, I just don’t think it was a good move.

Same applies for Shesty.

7-8 years is Satheresque. 6 years is fine. 5 years is better.

 

[Bruner4329]

I understand your beliefs about team speed. I do agree with you that systems can make guys look faster but I also think we lack individual speed. I think we need more team speed via system but also more individual speed. Right now Chytil and KAM are the only guys I see showing above average individual speed. CK has it in a straight line but rarely uses it. We used to have a lot in CK, Hags, McD, John Moore, Brady, etc.

This is so not true. Chytil and KAM may have speed but it does nothing when they are constantly caught out of position on defense or when Chytil disappears for long stretches of the season. Again go back and look at his production the last half of the last 2 seasons. Brutal. CK's speed has proven to be a big asset on the penalty kill. He is also right up there on short handed goals the last couple of years. What good is speed if you have no clue how to use it?