Roster Building Thread VI (2022-23): Offseason edition

[Machinehead]

Also Fox *profoundly* takes our hardest usage, so miss me with making shit up about that.

Trouba's matchups are closer to Schneider's than Fox's.

 

[IDvsEGO]

What kind of an idiot would say that?

Actually I said that.
Trouba’s first year he initially took all of the hardest minutes, and potentially sheltered fox and by the end of fox’s first year he was a true 1D.

 

[Machinehead]

Actually I said that.
Trouba’s first year he initially took all of the hardest minutes, and potentially sheltered fox and by the end of fox’s first year he was a true 1D.

That's because Fox is way better at shutting down top players, so much so that even David Quinn realized it, not because Trouba helped.

 

[Filthy Dangles]

It'd be nice if the best player on the team was a Center. It's been a goalie for the past 20 years. Fox is now in the conversation but we'd still be better suited for a Center to be 'that guy'.

Lightning, who some might call a 'dynasty''s best player was either a goalie, D or Wing

 

[huerter]

Actually I said that.
Trouba’s first year he initially took all of the hardest minutes, and potentially sheltered fox and by the end of fox’s first year he was a true 1D.

Thank you for your honesty. Everyone was saying it. I was on Mayfield Island.

 

[duhmetreE]

Lightning, who some might call a 'dynasty''s best player was either a goalie, D or Wing

Brayden Point was driving their offense and was easily their best player imo

 

[IDvsEGO]

That's because Fox is way better at shutting down top players, so much so that even David Quinn realized it, not because Trouba helped.

Theres a point to be made that starting against weaker competition helped.
Which is what happened. Now did he need it?
We’ll never know.

 

[Cmox]

Well, we did it. Only at 3 months til opening night and we're at Fox only did well bc of Trouba.

 

[Filthy Dangles]

fox if it werent for tuba

 

[bernmeister]

Sign Tank. Panarin gives 30% of his salary to Tank. Problem solved.

Sorry, this is real world, not bizzaro world

At this point they’ve made their bed so I’m not sure there is anything else to be done. Trade Goodrow is the easiest solution. But even if they did the best they could this summer, poor previous moves have made this bed and I don’t have to like where they are now.

They could have started with not trading firsts for rentals the last two seasons.

Can we all now please admit this ^ is true and get behind bern?

Then we are in agreement that Gorton & Davidson never shouldve subsidized the rebuild committing 20 mil a year to Trouba and Panarin. Keeping the firsts also wouldnt have changed the team at all because anyone they drafted the last 2 years with those picks would still be 2 years away at minimum.

HERE is THE TRUTH:
bread: issue is less how much he got paid, and to what extent that might be overpayment. It clearly is now, tho at the time he turned down mo $$$ to come here, notably bypassing Isles.
THE PROBLEM IS THESE DAMN IT TO FUGGIN HELL NMCs!!!!!!!!!!
There should be no nmcs, ever, period; don't care if you are Bobby Orr.
It's ok to get close, pref on a declining basis, with extensive ntc.
But zero possible wriggle room gets you what you see we have.
That bs just gotta stop.

Panarin has declined. He still has value. Value is dif to dif teams based on situation. I get he can't be shipped off wherever the hell we feel like. but shoe on the other foot, every team should always have 3-4 min options that do not require consent.
We will be lucky if we can send him to ANA and he goes, b'c he knpws he is not sniffing any $$$ for a renewal, so does he want to wait til the last embarrassing second to waive; and Ducks are a fit b'c strome; but while I support players' rights as an extension of labor in general, nmcs are obv unreasonable and have to be stopped.

Trouba
prob I have there is that we treated him like Knicks did Carmello Anthony.
We could have waited, and when he was a FA, we could have gotten him w'o giving up a truckload of assets.
Smaller scale here, but we should not have given that 1st for him. THAT was the problem. If we just waited, we could have gotten him no assets surrendered.
Or if we wanted to get early crack at him, send wpg a 6th or 7th for privilege to get a wks worth of word in edgewise.
If we had not forked over a 1st and were thus not in a bind, would he have gotten a full 8 per? Or perhaps closer to 6-6.5?

I saw this coming and prior to his nmc kicking in i urged we deal him to DET, but we shot ourselves in the foot by going a full 8 per

Again peeps
bern is your friend
I make mistakes
but I am more right than wrong. usually

ltb

 

[McRanger92]

I don't know if it's fair to lump them together.

Panarin was the type of talent you disregard context to acquire if you can. I believe he still is. You obviously hope he gets his shit together in the playoffs, but the whole team needs to get their shit together in the playoffs, and we're not in the playoffs without him.

Trouba was never that guy and he's declined on top of that. DeAngelo and Fox weren't exactly prospects -- they were sure-thing NHL players. We overpaid to fill a position we had a glut of talent at. It was dumb from day 1, rebuild or no rebuild.

I am hard on Panarin but we will not win the Stanley cup anytime soon if he’s not playing at his best. I do too believe it’s still in him. We have seen time and again throughout the league, losers become winners. Look no further than when Panarin embarrassed Kucherov and the lightning who had not been able to break through for years…and then what happened? We’re built like them.

I think Laviolette will be good for him. Others have pointed out that his most sustainable success has been under demanding coaches like Q and Torts. Even his first year with Quinn, they were on to something until the literal world went to shit. And it’s dumb reason, but the shaved head at least tells me he cares.

 

[huerter]

Well, we did it. Only at 3 months til opening night and we're at Fox only did well bc of Trouba.

You missed the point. That was the narrative at the time, while I was on Mayfield Island. But now it’s coming to light that they were joking.

 

[NickyFotiu]

The lack of playoff run this year has really soured this board lol. Maybe Carolina should rebuild, maybe NJ who got destroyed by Car should rebuild, maybe Boston who had 140 points almost should rebuild, Toronto, Tampa, etc. Only two teams play for the cup, that doesn’t mean the other teams are awful.

Its like Bill Parcells said about opening game in the NFL. On Monday half the teams fans will be thinking Superbowl and the other half will think the season is over.

 

[mas0764]

Except that the trades drury made the year we made the ecf we’re flawless.
We made the ecf! With the youngest team in the playoffs.
Like I get that this board is “hockey futures”
But at a certain point you do have to go for it.
Being upset at the moves the past deadline I can understand. Both tarasenko and Kane were too much and drury got bullied by either Dolan or the media.
But I don’t disagree with making a legit run at things.

Making the ECF at the end of the day is the same level of achievement as picking first in the draft.

Winning Cups is the end goal. And we are probably farther away ultimately than if we just kept building for the future.

Maybe making conference finals is something to be proud of if you win more than 1 Cup in 80 years. For us, there is no more pride in “deep runs.” We have been there, done that.

Winning it all needs to be the only thing we are focused on.

Unfortunately, rolling the dice on deadline rentals and doubling down on aging veterans has put us further away as we stand here today for the next decade.

 

[McRanger92]

I don’t think there is any question about this re: the contracts.

The Trouba deal is one that I dislike in hindsight. The good news is that it won’t be that difficult to move if the team feels the desire to move on from it (and I’m not sure they will.) So many GMs overvalue what he brings to the table but so does ours. We’ll see what happens next summer when the NMC turns into a partial NTC.

I’ve hated Panarin’s contract since the second it was signed and I hate it even more now. Every single thing I foresaw with that deal has happened or is in the process of happening and he’s going to be a tougher move. It’s also structured in a way that makes it pretty much buyout proof. This is the deal that nuked the rebuild from pretty much the very angle.

I hope that he doesn’t decline heavily this year. If he’s still about what he was last year someone will be desperate enough to want him with only a 2 year commitment.

We could have lived with one of these contracts. Tough to put anything together with both of them.

I don’t think it’s as bad as you say reanarin, but a lot of the development issues can be traced back to his presence ahead of Lafreniere and the minimal time he has played with Chytil & Kakko.

 

[mas0764]

Re: Trouba - Fox hadn’t played an NHL game yet. It’s quite the stretch to think the Rangers “knew” what he would become at an NHL level.

Some of these Trouba takes reek of lack of context.

We didn’t know Fox would become a Norris winner so quickly but it was pretty certain he was going to be a very good player.

 

[mas0764]

It'd be nice if the best player on the team was a Center. It's been a goalie for the past 20 years. Fox is now in the conversation but we'd still be better suited for a Center to be 'that guy'.

A desperate need for us despite a decent amount of quality down the middle. Mika is a very good player but he just doesn’t seem to be an alpha.

Not that we can’t win a Cup with Mika but it’s harder.

 

[Mandar]

You missed the point. That was the narrative at the time, while I was on Mayfield Island. But now it’s coming to light that they were joking.

Point schmoint

 

[GENESISPuck94]

A desperate need for us despite a decent amount of quality down the middle. Mika is a very good player but he just doesn’t seem to be an alpha.

Not that we can’t win a Cup with Mika but it’s harder.

We can't win a Cup with Mika.

 

[surlysailor]

I don't know if it's fair to lump them together.

Panarin was the type of talent you disregard context to acquire if you can. I believe he still is. You obviously hope he gets his shit together in the playoffs, but the whole team needs to get their shit together in the playoffs, and we're not in the playoffs without him.

Trouba was never that guy and he's declined on top of that. DeAngelo and Fox weren't exactly prospects -- they were sure-thing NHL players. We overpaid to fill a position we had a glut of talent at. It was dumb from day 1, rebuild or no rebuild.

While I never liked the trouba deal, at the time we just acquired Fox, and had no idea he’d storm out of the gate the way he did. I think many pegged to at least start in Hartford. D, was making a name for himself for sure but we also had Pionk and knowing what we know now besides the person he is, we also know JD & JG value grit on the back end, and I doubt they would’ve ever rolled 3 offensive minded rd. Also trouba was coming off a 50 pt season for the jets as well. Also if Covid never happened who knows what the cap might be and all of those deals might not have looked so horrible.

 

[Vitto79]

Kreider-Zib-Tarasenko ($3,5 M/1 year)
Laf ($2M)-Chytil-Kakko
Panarin-Trocheck-Zadina (league minimum)
Vesey-Bonino-Wheeler

Pitlick as the extra
Kane on LTIR ($1 M + bonuses) at the latest moment in Nov/Dec
DUH
#NYR = Mandela Effecct. Aways

They will let Cuylee and Othmaan have a shot at making the team so no Zadina

Maybe Kane but no point to think about that yet

 

[huerter]

Winning Cups is the end goal.

Nah son.

The cup is just some construct of the league that gets awarded every year. On par with the soon to be unveiled midseason NBA tournament. How long do fanbases stay cised after winning it? Blackhawks won 3 and their fans were butt miserable lately. Every coach will tell you they were the same coach the day before as they were the day after. Well I guess Walt Bell has his corny "one time, one night, best in the world" mantra, but get serious, it's Walt Bell.

You keep your cups, your rings, your medals...give me transformative excellence.

 

[Cmox]

We can't win a Cup with Mika.

I really read this in the "You don't make friends with salad" tune

 

[IDvsEGO]

Making the ECF at the end of the day is the same level of achievement as picking first in the draft.

Winning Cups is the end goal. And we are probably farther away ultimately than if we just kept building for the future.

Maybe making conference finals is something to be proud of if you win more than 1 Cup in 80 years. For us, there is no more pride in “deep runs.” We have been there, done that.

Winning it all needs to be the only thing we are focused on.

Unfortunately, rolling the dice on deadline rentals and doubling down on aging veterans has put us further away as we stand here today for the next decade.

And thats where you and I have very different expectations.

I went in to the 2020-21 season with expectations of "I want the team to make the playoffs. First round and out, is a win in my book", or "if we miss the playoffs but the kids explode. And I think most posters in this board would've had those exact same expectations.
I had wanted the rangers to do a rebuild, and part of that means setting realistic expectations.
This is not the same core of players who went to the cup w AV. This is an entirely new core of players. To be 2nd in the division at the deadline.
They've taken the exact step everyone wanted. They then go on to win 2 playoff series. We called the season a major victory, because our kids displayed growth, they looked playoff capable. Because Igor had the best year ever.
No one had an issue with the Copp trade once the season was over. Remember, the only reason the copp move was even a first was because they went 3 rounds. We lose to the canes, we still have our first. No one called that move a waste.


The team took a step back from that high we had in 20-21. No one is arguing that. But they expected another deep run. We didnt get that.
The team fired its coach, and we're going to see what playing inside a system looks like for this roster.

But those guys are still 85% of the same roster that went all the way to the conference finals. That run is always going to outweigh a first. Especially since we'd had 8 firsts in 4 years(including the 1st overall and 2nd overall,

You want to say the CF is nothing to be proud of. Except this isn't the same core as that last run. Getting there with one of the youngest rosters in the NHL. That was something to be proud of.

While I never liked the trouba deal, at the time we just acquired Fox, and had no idea he’d storm out of the gate the way he did. I think many pegged to at least start in Hartford. D, was making a name for himself for sure but we also had Pionk and knowing what we know now besides the person he is, we also know JD & JG value grit on the back end, and I doubt they would’ve ever rolled 3 offensive minded rd. Also trouba was coming off a 50 pt season for the jets as well. Also if Covid never happened who knows what the cap might be and all of those deals might not have looked so horrible.

Didnt he have a hat trick in his first game?

 

[IDvsEGO]

They will let Cuylee and Othmaan have a shot at making the team so no Zadina

Maybe Kane but no point to think about that yet

I think drury wanted no part of Kane the first time around. And i dont think he goes back to that well.

I think they want Cuylle and Othmann to have a run at the spots. But I could absolutely see them taking the mentality of a slow path for both of them and they need a little more AHL seasoning.

I could see Drury and Laviolette being interested in a guy who's got the potential for a real improvement in the right situation. And it fills our biggest weakness.