Roster Building Thread VI (2022-23): Offseason edition

[haohmaru]

It’s not Monday morning QBing when you call the mistakes in real-time.

Meh. Criticizing contracts is pretty easy fodder for anyone to call a mistake, even at the time those contracts are made. Term. $. NMC. It doesn't take some genius to bitch about it.

 

[duhmetreE]

What about Boston? They won a Cup at least and lost two more Finals.

Playoff experience is vastly overrated. Did it help us this year? Not in the slightest.

It's a multi faceted issue.

Players gaining experience is a plus. You need it. Understanding the time of season, how to play and what to expect. Experience helps in every field and aspect of life, this isn't some crazy take.

The management side of it needs to carry their weight as well. Roster construct was still out of whack. Coaching was abysmal and there were no adjustments. Playoff Experience will not outweigh that.

When you have all 3 components working together, then we can win a cup. No matter the roster construct, nothing was over coming our coaching. Now, if we have the coaching nailed down, and Drury goes after another Kane instead of Abel.... we may have a problem again.

 

[NickyFotiu]

This is so not true. Chytil and KAM may have speed but it does nothing when they are constantly caught out of position on defense or when Chytil disappears for long stretches of the season. Again go back and look at his production the last half of the last 2 seasons. Brutal. CK's speed has proven to be a big asset on the penalty kill. He is also right up there on short handed goals the last couple of years. What good is speed if you have no clue how to use it?

You are debating a strawman arguement. Nobody said we need more individuals with speed without the ability to use it in games anymore than someone said we need guys with great shots that miss the net.

 

[duhmetreE]

If I were a shrewd GM, I would have bought out Goodrow and signed RO'R.

Does everything Goodrow does but can actually play hockey and produce in the playoffs.

 

[RangerBoy]

“Blake wants to win the Cup, and he believes this is the right spot for that,” agent Matt Keator, who also represents fellow Blueshirts Chris Kreider and Adam Fox, told Slap Shots. “Chris [Drury] took care of his trade deadline work this week. There’s not going to be a better rental.”

Incoming head coach Peter Laviolette will have multiple options for the Minnesota native, who could fit in on the right with any of the Blueshirts’ top three centers in Mika Zibanejad, Filip Chytil and Vincent Trocheck. It will fascinating to watch this coach put his spin on things with a veteran group that added a heaping of experience in Wheeler, who was Jacob Trouba’s captain for three years in Winnipeg during a six-year run wearing the “C.” Wheeler’s influence should extend beyond the ice.

I read Wheeler had a confrontational style as captain in Winnipeg which rubbed some people the wrong way. Wheeler wanted to play in the east. Less travel.


Brooks has the Devils looking at John Gibson who has four more seasons remaining on his contract. $6.4M AAV. Elliotte Friedman reported teams are concerned about the number of abdominal injuries suffered by Gibson. Apparently, Pat Verbeek wants a ton in exchange for Gibson.

Are the Devils sniffing around John Gibson, the Anaheim goaltender who has informed GM Pat Verbeek he would prefer not to go through another rebuild but at the same time has issued no ultimatum?

Why, yes, sources tell us, that is exactly what New Jersey is doing as they weigh whether the Vitek Vanecek-Akira Schmid tandem can get them to the promised land coming out of a division that features Igor Shesterkin and Ilya Sorokin in a league in which Adin Hill’s team won the Cup.

Blake Wheeler is rare Rangers free agency bargain: ‘Wants to win the Cup’

Blake Wheeler took less to come to New York on a one-year, over-35 deal for an $800,000 cap hit plus a potential bonus package of up to $300,000.

nypost.com

 

[RangerBoy]

Great defensively, not quite shit offensively but not good.

Seems like a natural replacement for Lindgren if/when the time comes. If the transition numbers aren’t at least passable though I don’t want to deal with it.

Look at the Vegas D. Adin Hill's team made life so much easier for him. I would be happy with Robertson being the Rangers version of Nicholas Hague/Zach Whitecloud.

How did the Golden Knights out-perform those numbers by such a wide margin? By controlling the front of the net on both ends of the ice, and by scoring clutch goals in crucial moments.

Because Vegas’ big, powerful defense core protected the front of its net so well, the chances allowed were actually not as dangerous as the metrics would suggest. They forced shots to come from further away, and cleared lanes for Hill to see the puck. Once the initial save was made, their control over the net front led to easy clears and very few second chances.

The same goes on the other end of the ice, where Vegas’ forwards consistently crashed the net and made life difficult on opposing goaltenders. Expected goal models can’t account for traffic in front, making the Golden Knights’ actual chances more dangerous than they appear from a shot-plotting calculation.

By controlling the good ice as well as they did, the Golden Knights made four consecutive goalies look average at best. It’s not as if they faced an easy road of goaltending. Vegas started the postseason with former Vezina winner Connor Hellebuyck, followed by Calder Trophy finalist Stuart Skinner, Jake Oettingerand Sergei Bobrovsky on a heater.

The Stanley Cup is difficult to win — so how did the Golden Knights make it look easy?

Vegas scored 88 goals in the playoffs, tied for the most by any team since 1993, and also dominated other areas.

theathletic.com

Hockey is not a very complicated game.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Look at the Vegas D. Adin Hill's team made life so much easier for him. I would be happy with Robertson being the Rangers version of Nicholas Hague/Zach Whitecloud.

The Stanley Cup is difficult to win — so how did the Golden Knights make it look easy?

Vegas scored 88 goals in the playoffs, tied for the most by any team since 1993, and also dominated other areas.

theathletic.com

Hockey is not a very complicated game.

Id sign up for whitecloud esque play from Robertson right now.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Devils getting Gibson would be hilarious.

He’s been outperformed by pretty much every goalie who has also played for them recently so it’s not just Anaheim being bad. It’d be like trading for the post injury Cory Schneider.

 

[lakeshirts37]

I really hope the devils trade for gibson

 

[RangersFan1994]

I really hope the devils trade for gibson

Knowing the Rangers luck they will get the better goalie in Hellybuck and will win the Vezina

 

[duhmetreE]

Look at the Vegas D. Adin Hill's team made life so much easier for him. I would be happy with Robertson being the Rangers version of Nicholas Hague/Zach Whitecloud.

The Stanley Cup is difficult to win — so how did the Golden Knights make it look easy?

Vegas scored 88 goals in the playoffs, tied for the most by any team since 1993, and also dominated other areas.

theathletic.com

Hockey is not a very complicated game.

Or McDonagh. Or Cernak.

We need some nastiness in the back. Mikkola exemplified that..

 

[mas0764]

It's a multi faceted issue.

Players gaining experience is a plus. You need it. Understanding the time of season, how to play and what to expect. Experience helps in every field and aspect of life, this isn't some crazy take.

The management side of it needs to carry their weight as well. Roster construct was still out of whack. Coaching was abysmal and there were no adjustments. Playoff Experience will not outweigh that.

When you have all 3 components working together, then we can win a cup. No matter the roster construct, nothing was over coming our coaching. Now, if we have the coaching nailed down, and Drury goes after another Kane instead of Abel.... we may have a problem again.

Talent (and you can throw “roster construct” into that category) being way more important than experience is also not a crazy take.

 

[Kaapo Cabana]

What about Boston? They won a Cup at least and lost two more Finals.

Playoff experience is vastly overrated. Did it help us this year? Not in the slightest.



The Stepan goal was exciting and the time and it was enjoyable. The next round the team crapped the bed and the season was a failure.

The more important takeaway is to build a team designed to win it all and not just a couple rounds. That means sacrifice short term for long term.


It’s not Monday morning QBing when you call the mistakes in real-time.

do you truly believe that there is one team every year that is built to win it all?

hockey is very high up in the random department.

I would say that there are at least 5 or so teams every year with legit shots at winning the cup if the bounces go their way. Sometimes they play each other in the first round, (very often with our current trash playoff system) and the best team gets an unlucky matchup, or a bad break injury. Do you really think boston wasn't built to win it all this year? What about Tampa in 2019?

Many times, a team outside of this group makes a big run. Maybe the Cup Final looks different if Tkachuk didn't break his f***ing sternum. He was absolutely unstoppable up until that point. Would you say that team team that not only had less points than us, but less points than the flames who missed the playoffs were better built for the cup than say the Bruins? or the Oilers with a historic power play and 2 of the top 5 or 6 best players on the planet? or do you not think that Florida had a legit shot at a cup?

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Or McDonagh. Or Cernak.

We need some nastiness in the back. Mikkola exemplified that..

We have plenty of nastiness on the back end.

Almost all of what constitutes as nastiness on this team comes from defensemen.

Robertson isn’t nasty though despite being big which means 20% of this fan base already hates him.

 

[Fitzy]

We have plenty of nastiness on the back end.

Almost all of what constitutes as nastiness on this team comes from defensemen.

Robertson isn’t nasty though despite being big which means 20% of this fan base already hates him.

Robertsons comparable is Marc Staal so we can take it or leave it I would guess.

 

[Clark Kellogg]

The Rangers will need a bigger body.

I find the above Twitter post to be overly optimistic.

 

[duhmetreE]

Talent (and you can throw “roster construct” into that category) being way more important than experience is also not a crazy take.

There’s a certain limit to how much talent a team can have.

The idea that we can have an entire team of drafted talent is a false utopia.

We have plenty of nastiness on the back end.

Almost all of what constitutes as nastiness on this team comes from defensemen.

Robertson isn’t nasty though despite being big which means 20% of this fan base already hates him.

You need your defenders to be nasty. Lindgren can play rough but he can't really punish. Trouba can punish but he's one of the worst skaters in the league. We still need more size imo. Not big potatoes but actual talent. Big and mobile

 

[Kaapo Cabana]

Talent (and you can throw “roster construct” into that category) being way more important than experience is also not a crazy take.

I would say they're equally as important.

i definitely think that players who dont have the experience may not quite understand the level of desperation their opponents play with on a consistent basis in the playoffs. There are desperate moments in the regular season, but nothing like the constant intensity of an elimination game between two rivals.

you need to mentally prepare to play that way the entire game, and it helps to have been there before.

at the same time you definitely can't win without above average talent at least.

 

[Machinehead]

I'll put one of you guys in goal before I offer Shesterkin his next contract.

It's not something I even have to think about. I would let him play it out, just cold ass walk away, and sleep like a baby about it.

 

[Machinehead]

Robertsons comparable is Marc Staal so we can take it or leave it I would guess.

Actual Marc Staal or what people thought Marc Staal was long after he was that?

 

[GENESISPuck94]

do you truly believe that there is one team every year that is built to win it all?

hockey is very high up in the random department.

I would say that there are at least 5 or so teams every year with legit shots at winning the cup if the bounces go their way. Sometimes they play each other in the first round, (very often with our current trash playoff system) and the best team gets an unlucky matchup, or a bad break injury. Do you really think boston wasn't built to win it all this year? What about Tampa in 2019?

Many times, a team outside of this group makes a big run. Maybe the Cup Final looks different if Tkachuk didn't break his f***ing sternum. He was absolutely unstoppable up until that point. Would you say that team team that not only had less points than us, but less points than the flames who missed the playoffs were better built for the cup than say the Bruins? or the Oilers with a historic power play and 2 of the top 5 or 6 best players on the planet? or do you not think that Florida had a legit shot at a cup?

Yes there are teams built to win Cups. Pretty much every year like you said there's a short list of like 5 teams that are favorites to win and one of those teams wins and usually one of the other 5 teams loses in the Cup Final. So usually 2 of the 5 make it to the Final.

Parity is the biggest lie the NHL pushes. The only outliers over the last 20 years were CAR, ANA, WSH, COL, VGK. All the other Cup winners and runner ups were repeats. 15 of the last 20 Cup Finals were repeat appearances and/or repeat winners. If you go back further it gets more ridiculous. NJD, DET, COL, PIT, EDM, NYI, MTL... how many repeat winners dominated over the years.

There is no such things as parity in the NHL. The blueprint for success is plain and obvious. Yes the Rangers think they'll revolutionize the league? They've been trying since 95 and it hasn't worked that way. You can't fill a team with mercenaries and expect to win. You need to build. No team wins a Stanley Cup without their top high picks leading the way. Vegas might be the only exception to the rule because they were an expansion team that benefitted from rigged expansion draft rules. But, they took young players and made them franchise players.

Rangers think they can sabotage their own high picks and buy a Cup. They've had that mentality for decades and it hasn't worked. Meanwhile there are repeat Champs doing the complete opposite of what the Rangers do. Even the one off Champs do it the same way the repeats do it.

Championships are built, not bought.

 

[Levitate]

That is silly, Panarin and Trochek are the only ones that fit the “mercenary” label and both play needed roles with the team that weren’t being addressed by draft or trade.
All of the other major pieces the rangers drafted or traded for when the players were young.

This rangers team is far from a mercenary group of signings, it’s a mix of draft picks and trades and free agent signings, which is fine.
I do agree that they handicapped themselves somewhat here by not getting the most out of their top picks and stuffing them into support roles and expecting them to develop into stars that way

 

[mas0764]

do you truly believe that there is one team every year that is built to win it all?

hockey is very high up in the random department.

I would say that there are at least 5 or so teams every year with legit shots at winning the cup if the bounces go their way. Sometimes they play each other in the first round, (very often with our current trash playoff system) and the best team gets an unlucky matchup, or a bad break injury. Do you really think boston wasn't built to win it all this year? What about Tampa in 2019?

Many times, a team outside of this group makes a big run. Maybe the Cup Final looks different if Tkachuk didn't break his f***ing sternum. He was absolutely unstoppable up until that point. Would you say that team team that not only had less points than us, but less points than the flames who missed the playoffs were better built for the cup than say the Bruins? or the Oilers with a historic power play and 2 of the top 5 or 6 best players on the planet? or do you not think that Florida had a legit shot at a cup?

I truly believe there are a small number.

 

[Vitto79]

Great defensively, not quite shit offensively but not good.

Seems like a natural replacement for Lindgren if/when the time comes. If the transition numbers aren’t at least passable though I don’t want to deal with it.

Well he needs a good camp since the D is deeper. I hope he does become an option but not expecting it yet

 

[NickyFotiu]

12 different champs in 18 years is a pretty good rotation pointing towards parity.

Far from the years that 3 teams (Canadians, Isles and Oilers) won 15 cups in 16 years.