Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XXXVIII

[Fitzy]

The short answer then for me is of Kreider doesn't get a great return, he should be re-signed.

I fully expect he will still be on top of his game at 33 to 35.

 

[Gardner McKay]

You're probably right. 4 years is just too long. If it was 2 years i'd be all on board. 4 years may get tricky when our younger players need new contracts.

Kreider alone is worth a 15-20 pick. Lucic's contract is too much to move up 7-10 spots. It will hamper this team for too long.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Kreider alone is worth a 15-20 pick. Lucic's contract is too much to move up 7-10 spots. It will hamper this team for too long.

Yea, i definitely miss the boat with that proposal. I hadn't realized Lucic still had so much left on the contract.

 

[Gardner McKay]

Yea, i definitely miss the boat with that proposal. I hadn't realized Lucic still had so much left on the contract.

Yeah fair enough.

People like to say that a contract is unmovable and they say it about a wide number of players. In reality, some contracts are movable. Lucic's is truly unmovable. The cost would be so great that it really isn't worth it for Edmonton to move him. Short of sending the 8th overall pick + Lucic for a 3rd or something, I don't see a scenario where a team would hamstring themselves for 4 years.

 

[Ola]

Speed and skill by the way they are drafting. Definitely skill.

Sounds like a real master plan, guys I got it, this year we should go after skill and speed as opposed to slow unskilled players.

We must be the best of 31 franchises in this league. I wonder how many have figured out the above? Sounds like it will give us a real edge!!

 

[LORDE]

Whoa, WHoa, WHOA!

What is this? The organization has no direction? Have you not seen what Gorton is doing? How can you look at his body of work and not think that he has a clear and direct vision? From player personnel right down to coaching choice?

Has he always made the right call? No, but then point out the GM that has. Look at the farm system he inherited, look at the on ice product as well as the players he targeted, how can you possibly state that the franchise is not building an identity or is not proceeding with a direction?

Whether the fans like it or not, Gorton is proceeding with his plan and vision. Sometimes with cold-hearted calculations.

I see the picture he's painting, and it's GORGEOUS

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Sounds like a real master plan, guys I got it, this year we should go after skill and speed as opposed to slow unskilled players.

We must be the best of 31 franchises in this league. I wonder how many have figured out the above? Sounds like it will give us a real edge!!

There are tons of players who don't fit this criteria. The one that comes to mind for me that didnt fit this criteria for us on is Andersson. Though of course you have to throw in gritty, offensive players too.

 

[kovazub94]

Kravstov has been much better as a LW than a RW. His stats as a RW in the KHL are pretty poor.

Kakko is effective all over so no worries there.

It's also very possible that a permanent move to wing is in the cards for one of Chytil or Andersson, maybe even both.

Tying up that much money (and roster space) is just a bad idea. I'd prefer that they keep both slots open unless they can get a second high pick/someone awesome drops to them for some stupid reason.

Plus its just unnecessary to tie up that much money in guys of that age at the moment.

That’s a false assertion. For some reason Traktor’s lineup card often put Kravtsov as LW, where he definitely played as a RW. No way he played more than a handful of games as LW during the whole season.

 

[LORDE]

Pretty simple... hard to play against.

Gorton has said it. Quinn has. It's not some well kept secret.

While adding skill, they've also added players who are a pain in the ass and who don't give up.

Maybe that was part of the culture change? (it was)

Tampa made up of 1/2 our old culture players were just embarrassed in a 1st round sweep. They're building (hopefully) the opposite of that culture.

 

[effen]

Some luck but a lot of skill

A lot more 'luck' than you'd think.

 

[kovazub94]

I’d be a little cautious reading into those stats that much (albeit they are very interesting). I recon that he didn’t just switch sides with the same linemates.

Exactly, whenever he and Glinkin were on the same line, Kravtsov was ALWAYS a RW, regardless how it was listed.

 

[effen]

What is our direction? How do we want to play?

We want to play well afaict.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

That’s a false assertion. For some reason Traktor’s lineup card often put Kravtsov as LW, where he definitely played as a RW. No way he played more than a handful of games as LW during the whole season.

@Amazing Kreiderman confirm?

 

[effen]

Sounds like a real master plan, guys I got it, this year we should go after skill and speed as opposed to slow unskilled players.

We must be the best of 31 franchises in this league. I wonder how many have figured out the above? Sounds like it will give us a real edge!!

You're being sarcastic but the answer to your questions are simplistic and silly because of a combination of the questions you're asking and the way you're asking them.

 

[haohmaru]

Pretty simple... hard to play against.

Gorton has said it. Quinn has. It's not some well kept secret.

While adding skill, they've also added players who are a pain in the ass and who don't give up.

Maybe that was part of the culture change? (it was)

Tampa made up of 1/2 our old culture players were just embarrassed in a 1st round sweep. They're building (hopefully) the opposite of that culture.

Those "old culture" players took the NYR to the Final. I think Tampa's issue lies elsewhere. Their "stars" were largely AWOL for the series (or hurt) - Kucherov, Stamkos, Point, Hedman. The Rangers "culture" players there, aside from McDonagh, are either role players (Callahan, Miller, Girardi) or hurt (Stralman). The only "big" guy there, McDonagh, doesn't have the greatest playoff history - playing-wise or injury-wise.

 

[kovazub94]

My concern w moving Kreider is just having too many kids w not many vets to help

Kreider , Zib would be longterm pieces Imo still ... Vesey , Names and Fast likely gone at the deadline

Strome is still pretty young but who knows how he does next year

Same. Zibanejad and Buchnevich (and hopefully Strome) are not enough to support rookies and twenty year olds and insulate them from roles they are not ready for in top6.

 

[NYR Viper]

I’d consider Lucic. There would be a bunch of pieces that would need to included though.

1) Edmonton would need to retain no less than $2m per season
2) their 1st this year must be included
3) their 2nd next year must be included

That’s just for taking Lucic at $4m cap hit. Not discussing Kreider.

Here’s another way to think about this:

Kreider + Smith

For

Lucic ($4m cap hit) + Gagner + EDM 1st ‘19 + EDM 2nd ‘19 + ______

Lucic @$4m for Smith
The Rangers actually save cap space this year and next($350k)
Lucic is easier to play at 3rd or 4th line
I also believe that getting Lucic out of Edmonton will bring some of his game back. Maybe 35 points.

Kreider for Gagner + EDM 1st + EDM 2nd
The 2nd is for taking Gagner

 

[kovazub94]

I would want a 20 to 21 year old blue Chip prospect more than a 10 to 14 pick for Kreider.

I also think he is worth far more than just his offensive stats, so that should be taken into consideration.

Exactly, what happened to Brassard-type deal for Kreider discussion?

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

@Amazing Kreiderman confirm?

Here's the thing. Kravtsov isn't a traditional LW or RW. He isn't pinned to one side of the ice. More and more you see wingers being hybrids who are all over the ice. Positioning merely decides where they line up for face offs. The first 5 seconds after the face off are affected. That's it.

It does not really matter if you play him at LW or RW. Ironically, both Kakko and Kravtsov have better numbers when they are listed as LW on paper. Does that change where they should be in the line up? Not to me. This is the new NHL. It's a "total football" equivalent. If anyone is familiar with the Ajax football team of the 1970s, they know what I'm talking about. Positions on paper are fluid. Not set in stone. Players swap all the time in open play

 

[Fitzy]

Exactly, what happened to Brassard-type deal for Kreider discussion?

Kreider plus for Trouba I could really get behind.

 

[LORDE]

Those "old culture" players took the NYR to the Final. I think Tampa's issue lies elsewhere. Their "stars" were largely AWOL for the series (or hurt) - Kucherov, Stamkos, Point, Hedman. The Rangers "culture" players there, aside from McDonagh, are either role players (Callahan, Miller, Girardi) or hurt (Stralman). The only "big" guy there, McDonagh, doesn't have the greatest playoff history - playing-wise or injury-wise.

Two are ex captains. One wore the A

Always grateful for what they did but "Bringing it every night" wasn't their niche (save for Cally). It was only last season where McD, G, Miller were part of a team giving up goals in the first minute of almost half the games they played.

Hedman being concussed sure didn't help them. But I still feel trading McD was as much about the change of culture as his contract.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Trouba's durability worries me.

 

[kovazub94]

Kreider plus for Trouba I could really get behind.

Kreider or Skjei plus Pionk for Trouba. @Ola is absolutely right that we need RW with size (who’s not just depth) to supplement ADA, and eventually Lundkvist and Keane on that side.

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

Exactly, what happened to Brassard-type deal for Kreider discussion?

The term (or lack thereof) left on Kreider’s current deal?

 

[I Eat Crow]

I'm not sure any of those guys outside of Nikolayev will be available at those spots - I think most of them will go earlier than where you're picking them.

I'm not arguing with you, that very well may be true especially with Fagemo. Hoglander can go late 1st to late 2nd. It depends on how much a team likes him.

I don't agree on Heinola though. He's been a riser as of late and with good reason. That being said, I don't see him leapfrogging Soderstrom or York to go top 15. If he's not there at 19, it means a player I'm really going to like is going to be there as well.