Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XXXVIII

[DelZottoHitTheNetJK]

That's aweful. Why would the Rangers do that?

Actually really like that proposal. 0% chance this organization doesn't sign or trade for some goon to watch the kids and Kakko next year. Might as well kill 2 birds with 1 stone and scoop up the Oilers pick which is nice this year (as per usual).


Another proposal: should Dallas get to the WCF -

Higher of the WPG/DAL 1st (admittedly I forget how the seeding works now with WPG eliminated) + Namestnikov for:

Risto

Go

 

[Ola]

You're being sarcastic but the answer to your questions are simplistic and silly because of a combination of the questions you're asking and the way you're asking them.

Yeah I know, but I do think it’s a very legit question.

We need to become the best of 31 franchises. How are we getting there? What is the plan? Look, I understand that we have decided to build a team again. Try to come back with some ammo in our pocket. Great, it’s a start.

But then what? I mean, I like Gorton. But can anyone say that they feel comfortable that he has a plan in place to not only reload the organization with assets, but actually on how to build a team that isn’t just a top 6-8 team but instead a team that is the best of 31? All over the league he giants are collapsing. Every little flaw is exposed.

I called out RB (@RangerBoy) according to him everyone else aren’t winning it because they are idiots and makes dumb moves and we will win it because Gorton won’t make a single mistake. Never sign someone to a long contract or move future assets. Kind of.

Thing is, to get a good shot to win a Cup you must establish yourself as a year in year out top 3-4 organization. To get there it will take a heck of a lot more than just loading up on assets. A 2nd overall pick and a few other decent picks. The previous organizations who got to that level just did so many things right. Detroit, they just had a very effective plan. Actually totally retooled without losing much of a beat going from Yzerman and Feds to Z and Datayuk. Very clear roles, handpicked players for those roles, gave the kids a lot of time outside the NHL and when they got an opening they had someone in line handpicked and drilled to handle that exact role, 4 other guys on the ice prepared to support a player with just that style. NJD with their team first game. Others have been Colorado and Pittsburgh built around two super centers.

Why should we become the best of 31 franchises? It’s like the belief is that we should win a Cup because it’s ‘our turn’, as long as we don’t screw up? Right? That very ‘we are entitled to it’ notion is why we have one cup in 80 years. No, we aren’t entitled to winning a cup.

 

[Minmonster]

Yea, i definitely miss the boat with that proposal. I hadn't realized Lucic still had so much left on the contract.

If Edmonton added their 2020 1st then maybe there is a deal there

 

[QJL]

I wouldn’t give Kreider up for a deal that included Lucic with anything less than 3 1sts coming back. The Rangers absolutely cannot take that contract.

I really do believe something like this is realistic if a player the Rangers love is there at 8:

Kreider
Georgiev

for

8 overall
Conditional 2020 2nd if Kreider resigns

This all depends on faith in Shestyorkin.

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

Yeah I know, but I do think it’s a very legit question.

We need to become the best of 31 franchises. How are we getting there? What is the plan? Look, I understand that we have decided to build a team again. Try to come back with some ammo in our pocket. Great, it’s a start.

But then what? I mean, I like Gorton. But can anyone say that they feel comfortable that he has a plan in place to not only reload the organization with assets, but actually on how to build a team that isn’t just a top 6-8 team but instead a team that is the best of 31? All over the league he giants are collapsing. Every little flaw is exposed.

I called out RB (@RangerBoy) according to him everyone else aren’t winning it because they are idiots and makes dumb moves and we will win it because Gorton won’t make a single mistake. Never sign someone to a long contract or move future assets. Kind of.

Thing is, to get a good shot to win a Cup you must establish yourself as a year in year out top 3-4 organization. To get there it will take a heck of a lot more than just loading up on assets. A 2nd overall pick and a few other decent picks. The previous organizations who got to that level just did so many things right. Detroit, they just had a very effective plan. Actually totally retooled without losing much of a beat going from Yzerman and Feds to Z and Datayuk. Very clear roles, handpicked players for those roles, gave the kids a lot of time outside the NHL and when they got an opening they had someone in line handpicked and drilled to handle that exact role, 4 other guys on the ice prepared to support a player with just that style. NJD with their team first game. Others have been Colorado and Pittsburgh built around two super centers.

Why should we become the best of 31 franchises? It’s like the belief is that we should win a Cup because it’s ‘our turn’, as long as we don’t screw up? Right? That very ‘we are entitled to it’ notion is why we have one cup in 80 years. No, we aren’t entitled to winning a cup.

I don’t think anyone is sitting here thinking we’re going to win a cup because we’re entitled to it. It feels more like this team is finally breaking from what they’ve historically done (looking for star talent to bring in from other teams rather than drafting their own) that’s the cause for all the optimism. The reality is that teams don’t need to be the single best team in the league to win a cup, a lot of things need to go their way for that to happen, but like tanking, the best thing they can do is put themselves in the position to maximize their odds. The plan to make that happen is out there, we’ve been talking about it for a year and a half now. I don’t know why you’re looking to put players into slots years from now while the process of even figuring out where these players are best suited is still working itself out. It’s still early, it’s still a time for patience.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

I don’t think anyone is sitting here thinking we’re going to win a cup because we’re entitled to it. It feels more like this team is finally breaking from what they’ve historically done (looking for star talent to bring in from other teams rather than drafting their own) that’s the cause for all the optimism. The reality is that teams don’t need to be the single best team in the league to win a cup, a lot of things need to go their way for that to happen, but like tanking, the best thing they can do is put themselves in the position to maximize their odds. The plan to make that happen is out there, we’ve been talking about it for a year and a half now. I don’t know why you’re looking to put players into slots years from now while the process of even figuring out where these players are best suited is still working itself out. It’s still early, it’s still a time for patience.

I think one thing everyone needs to understand is that at some point we are going to be shopping for players to complete the team maybe not like like we did before but we will look to add UFA's to round out the roster. Every team does it, even the Hawks, Pens, Kings, Bruins etc have all added players when they were ready. We will do the same thing when the time is right, but for now we need to get the base built.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

I wouldn’t give Kreider up for a deal that included Lucic with anything less than 3 1sts coming back. The Rangers absolutely cannot take that contract.

I really do believe something like this is realistic if a player the Rangers love is there at 8:

Kreider
Georgiev

for

8 overall
Conditional 2020 2nd if Kreider resigns

This all depends on faith in Shestyorkin.

I don’t think Georgiev is going anywhere until they see what they have in Shestyorkin in NA.

 

[Beacon]

1) Kreider and a second for #14 or #16 so long as Soderstrom is available. We desperately need RDs. We have 9 young guys who can play in the top-9 plus prospects like Barron, Vinni and Gettinger who may get there also.

2) A pair of seconds and Fast for Fox.


To acquire Kakko, Fox, Soderstrom and a high risk, high return prospect (the Jets pick) in one summer would be incredible. Arguably the best farm in the league, and would resolve our problems on the RD.

We would still need to add a high end forward, but the top-10 is filled with forwards next draft, so we can draft someone good. Plus, the high return prospect Jets pick draftee turn into a homerun.

 

[Beacon]

I wouldn’t give Kreider up for a deal that included Lucic with anything less than 3 1sts coming back. The Rangers absolutely cannot take that contract.

I really do believe something like this is realistic if a player the Rangers love is there at 8:

Kreider
Georgiev

for

8 overall
Conditional 2020 2nd if Kreider resigns

This all depends on faith in Shestyorkin.

A year ago, would you have given up Kravtsov for Eberle, who as of 2018 had much better stats than Kreider? The idea that the Oilers or any rebuilding team would give up a top-10 pick for a non-elite almost-UFA is fantasy.

 

[Matt4776]

1) Kreider and a second for #14 or #16 so long as Soderstrom is available. We desperately need RDs. We have 9 young guys who can play in the top-9 plus prospects like Barron, Vinni and Gettinger who may get there also.

2) A pair of seconds and Fast for Fox.


To acquire Kakko, Fox, Soderstrom and a high risk, high return prospect (the Jets pick) in one summer would be incredible. Arguably the best farm in the league, and would resolve our problems on the RD.

We would still need to add a high end forward, but the top-10 is filled with forwards next draft, so we can draft someone good. Plus, the high return prospect Jets pick draftee turn into a homerun.

This seems like a lot.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

This seems like a lot.

That's absolutely ridiculous for a player who apparently wants to sign with us anyway

 

[bobbop]

A lot more 'luck' than you'd think.

Having been close to the process in the past, I’d suggest just the opposite.

 

[bobbop]

Kreider plus for Trouba I could really get behind.

I’d be good with this but I don’t see where Kreider fits with Winnipeg

 

[bobbop]

Thoughts on bringing Hayes back? His price tag had to of dropped since being in Winnipeg and its no secret he LOVES New York

Perhaps. I’m listening.

 

[mas0764]

Truth be told, I could live with that and be more than content.

I will admit the Rangers desire to get into the top 10 does align with my own wishes, so it’s easy for me to root for it.

While I think a path will definitely be there if the Rangers can land a mid-teen pick, and especially if Dallas gives them a first, I’m okay with standing pat.

In that scenario, I’d absolutely love to see if we can come away with two of Newhook, Söderström or Caufield.

Kakko is a blessing but the Rangers could still use another legit top 6 center since Chytil and Andersson seem like they might be wingers. If we were picking 7th then we likely get that center.

Kakko is such an organizational shot in the arm.... But yeah.... Still need the center.

 

[TheGortonConspiracy]

Pumped to be watching a very creative team with Zibby, Buch, Kaako, Kravtsov, Chytil, ADA next season. Going to be fun

I've given Kreider flak in the past for playing an un-creative game but he seems to be a good glue guy for those players, given his play alongside Zib Buch Zucc. Obviously there are more important considerations than his ability to play alongside creative players

 

[Beacon]

This seems like a lot.

It's a very similar package to what the Rangers gave up for Tim Erixon who was never half the prospect Fox is. And while Erixon could've been returned to the draft, the Rangers were literally the only team he'd accept a trade to, so Calgary had the choice of sending him here or receive nothing at all, whereas Fox never said Rangers or bust, merely that this is one of the teams he'd consider.

Many players liked the Rangers, but eventually went elsewhere. Shanahan wanted to come here, but there was some kind of problem with trading Matteau, so he instead got traded for Pronger. Lindros liked the Rangers, but was perfectly happy to accept the trade to Philly. Bunch more smaller trades.

 

[NoQuitInNewMexico]

I think it was Brooksie who said we could "give one of three second round picks" to the Canes for Fox, and it got misread into "three second round picks" for a few pages, weeks ago

 

[Trxjw]

I'd argue that Erixon was every bit as highly touted at the time of the trade as Fox is right now.

 

[Beacon]

I'd argue that Erixon was every bit as highly touted at the time of the trade as Fox is right now.

Fox is easily more highly touted now, not to mention that Calgary had no other choice, while Carolina does. Also RD (Fox) is more valuable than LD (Erixon).

But let's say 1) Fox=Erixon; and 2) Fox won't accept a trade any place else so the Canes can only get anything of value from the Rangers, just the same as the Flames. Even if that's true (and it's not), wouldn't the Rangers still likely give up the same package they gave up for Erixon, which is what I proposed?

I proposed an Erixon-type package for a superior player playing a more rare position whose team has more options on where to trade him. Unless you're a homer, how do you believe this is lopsided against the Rangers?

 

[Matt4776]

I'd argue that Erixon was every bit as highly touted at the time of the trade as Fox is right now.

This is how I remember it as well.

But, I think there's also a difference between the situations. Erixon didn't have the option to play one more year and then become a UFA. He had to re-enter the draft.

Fox can play another year while getting a degree from one of world's most elite universities, and then choose where he wants to play.

I'd send then 2nd+Pionk. That's about my limit. Especially in the hypothetical Beacon set up where we are already drafting Soderstrom. We'd have Tony D (already a top-4 d-man), and then Lundkvist, Soderstrom as recent first rounders waiting in the wings. That's a lot of 5'11 RHD's with similar skill sets. That doesn't mean I don't trade a 2nd for Fox, but I'm not dying to give 2 2nds and Fast for him either.

 

[TheTakedown]

Trotz has gotten all the credit and he deserves credit, but Pelech, Toews, and Pullock are really good defensemen.

Toews especially

 

[bobbop]

Carolina has no leverage left with Fox. He isn't signing with them. If he was ever going to sign he would have done it when he could have burned a year off his contract.

I’m sure there are a couple of teams (Boston, Islanders) who might be tempted to take a run at him but how much would they consider trading? More than a late second? Doubtful.

Fox is worth more than a low second but that’s all he will get in this market. Once Carolina has had a chance to canvas the market, the deal will get done with the Rangers. If Carolina happens to like a mid level Rangers prospect, that also might be part of a deal.

 

[LiveLongandProspal]

Just trade the Lightning second round pick for Fox and be done with it. Better that than wasting it on some unknown goalie from Sweden...

 

[LiveLongandProspal]

Do we have to give up anything to the Blue Jackets for JD?