Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XXXVIII

[Minmonster]

Negative. To get pick 20 they need:

• Stars to win their series.
• Knights to win their series.

After the above, to get pick 18:

• Canes to make the conference finals.
• Blue Jackets to make the conference finals.

Thanks man.

 

[Minmonster]

Truth be told, I could live with that and be more than content.

I will admit the Rangers desire to get into the top 10 does align with my own wishes, so it’s easy for me to root for it.

While I think a path will definitely be there if the Rangers can land a mid-teen pick, and especially if Dallas gives them a first, I’m okay with standing pat.

In that scenario, I’d absolutely love to see if we can come away with two of Newhook, Söderström or Caufield.

Love to draft Newhook. Edge, do you see some farabee similarities?

 

[TheBPA]

Have you seen his possession metrics?

Whoops was looking at someone else...ok fair to say Neal had solid possession numbers but has been on a massive decline since his age 27 season.

I don’t see that decline happening with Kreider nearly as rapidly in part due to the difference in skating ability between the two. That’s not to say that I want to sign Kreider for 7 years, but I don’t see him being a healthy scratch at 31 like Neal.

 

[Vitto79]

Same argument was made for Zuccarello. Had we kept Zucc, not only would we be saddled with his horrendous extension, but we also would be sans Kakko.

Look at the James Neal contract, thats a good reason to be gun shy about Kreider.

Yea maybe but maybe not. If Kreider goes they need a ufa signing to replace him no ?

 

[bl02]

Agree wholeheartedly. But we can't expect players like Parayko f.ex. to be available often, that kid is a gem and STL got him. Also I'm like not interested in Fox at all, specially if we actually give up anything to get his rights.

Looking at big-size d-men in the draft:

Seider
Broberg
Robertson !
Vlasic ! (huge)
maybe Harley

These are the defensive prospects with big size and projected talent. Early 2nd late first round, we should be able to draft 2 of these kids.

Really Really Liked Harley but unfortunately he has been rising big time. He will go top 20 I think. We could still get him with our Jets Pick but not sure if The Rangers would like other guys there.

 

[Edge]

Love to draft Newhook. Edge, do you see some farabee similarities?

Some, though I think Zegras reminds me of Farabee the most.

But I like Newhook’s potential upside. He’s got more question marks than some of the top centers, but IMO his ceiling is right up there.

 

[Fugazy]

Some, though I think Zegras reminds me of Farabee the most.

But I like Newhook’s potential upside. He’s got more question marks than some of the top centers, but IMO his ceiling is right up there.

Newhook is my guy. Would be pumped if they got him.

 

[Edge]

Newhook is my guy. Would be pumped if they got him.

If there’s nothing doing on a top 10, and we indeed draft at 2 and 20, I’d love for him to fall to that second pick. I’d even be willing to trade up for him from that Jets’ pick.

 

[Ola]

Love to draft Newhook. Edge, do you see some farabee similarities?

Did you see any of Joe Velano last season? They are pretty similar.

Edge- You are giving Zegras 2-way game and skating a lot of credit comparing him to Farabee...

 

[Edge]

Did you see any of Joe Velano last season? They are pretty similar.

Edge- You are giving Zegras 2-way game and skating a lot of credit comparing him to Farabee...

I think he’s got it in him for sure.

He’s a different skater than Farabee, who is much more of a straight line type. But their ability to remain elusive, their drive on the play, their competitiveness, obviously their size, and their ability to stabilize a lineup is quite similar.

Zegras was a kid this year that the US program often used in a Farabee-type role to get people going, or provide them a safety net. When Turcotte went down, he was slide able to slide right into that center slot and didn’t miss a beat.

When they worked on getting Hughes more involved in the shooting process, Zegras was the guy they bumped up to allow him to do so.

When they needed a guy to shift over to the wing, he showed he could score goals (similar to Turcotte). The difference being, they moved him back to center to benefit the other guys they had on the wings.

But both guys play a detail-oriented, do what it takes, make the line and the team better style of game that could prove valuable.

 

[RGY]

It’s fine to have a discussion. But when you put out a completely unrealistic idea don’t be surprised when you get called out on it.

You seem to have this complex where if someone challenges one of your bad ideas you can’t understand why they would even have the audacity to do so or even credit the fact that where the opposition is coming from is completely logical. You need to get out, get some fresh air, and find some meaning in life.

How is it completely “unrealistic” for them to re-sign Kreider and sign Panarin? Its fair if you disagree that it should happen, but unrealistic? Now youre just saying anything to be able to feel that your opinion* is right.

I am not at all upset if someone “challenges” my ideas that i put on a MESSAGE BOARD. Not at all. That is what this space is for. Its how someone talks down to someone else as if they know more than the next guy here and that is what you do, simply put. And multiple people have read your posts and know you act childish. I am perfectly ok with you having a differing opinion. You care about the team. So do I. It is how you come off. You can simply just disagree and not be a complete douche about it.

 

[Bruner4329]

Seeing a bunch of these posts with Anderson on the 3rd line and Chytl on the second line is an over reach. Chytl had moments last year but still needs to develop. Anderson IMO had a horrible year, a year where he took a step back in many expert's opinion. I am not even sure he is on the opening day roster. Needs to really impress otherwise he belongs in Hartford.

 

[DutchShamrock]

Whoops was looking at someone else...ok fair to say Neal had solid possession numbers but has been on a massive decline since his age 27 season.

I don’t see that decline happening with Kreider nearly as rapidly in part due to the difference in skating ability between the two. That’s not to say that I want to sign Kreider for 7 years, but I don’t see him being a healthy scratch at 31 like Neal.

Do you not see the decline because the numbers and eye test are telling you that, or because that's what you want to see?

One of these wingers, over the last 5 seasons, scored at a .56 per game rate, missed games with injury, flirted with 30 goals, and would be defined as an adequate 1st line co-piolot.

It would be hard to immediately identify if I'm talking about Neal or Kreider. Its Neal, and that's his stats since his 27 year old season. Thing is he had better numbers before that age.

So if Neal declined, what does Kreider do with a lower starting point? Ironically, the Neal numbers kind of support Kreider holding up. It's interesting that people look at another team's forward and see decline and diminishing play. But they look at Kreider and see a riser. Neal was an old school power forward that broke down. Its ironic to me again that the other guy lost his touch because his special physical attribute failed him with age. But our guy won't decline because he uses speed. Age and speed are basically going in opposite directions on a graph, universally.

He's 28 in 2 weeks. What you see is what you get. 29 for his next contract. I doubt he ever breaks 30 goals or 60 points. That's not a bad player, just not a star. It's just a question of roster building over the next stretch. With Chytil, Kravtsov, Buchnevich, and Kakko in the fold, where does CK fit in the not so distant future? What about other picks and prospects? UFA pick ups?

Kreider may lose his hold on a top 6 wing spot before his play drops. Assuming he maintains, those 4 wings may pass him by in the next 2 seasons, or after year 1 of a new contract. He would actually be an intriguing energy wing with speed and 25g, 20a production... at $4m per. $6.5-7m even if he avoids father time, isn't good cap management.

 

[Cag29]

My concern w moving Kreider is just having too many kids w not many vets to help

Kreider , Zib would be longterm pieces Imo still ... Vesey , Names and Fast likely gone at the deadline

Strome is still pretty young but who knows how he does next year

I like Strome.

 

[Vitto79]

I like Strome.

He’s a good C stop gap but w Zib then all the young Cs he may need to slip to Rw on a bottom 6 eventually

Great deal for Spooner no doubt

 

[TheBloodyNine]

How is it completely “unrealistic” for them to re-sign Kreider and sign Panarin? Its fair if you disagree that it should happen, but unrealistic? Now youre just saying anything to be able to feel that your opinion* is right.

I am not at all upset if someone “challenges” my ideas that i put on a MESSAGE BOARD. Not at all. That is what this space is for. Its how someone talks down to someone else as if they know more than the next guy here and that is what you do, simply put. And multiple people have read your posts and know you act childish. I am perfectly ok with you having a differing opinion. You care about the team. So do I. It is how you come off. You can simply just disagree and not be a complete *****e about it.

The Rangers are not spending 16.5 million dollars on two wingers who are in their late 20s, let alone two wingers in general when they still have deficiencies at center and defense. It’s not happening.

You absolutely do get that way. Here’s how the conversations go:

You: Terrible roster idea
Someone Else: That’s a bad idea for X, Y, and Z
You: OH WELL YOU JUST KNOW EVERYTHING HUH? WELL YOU DONT!

You get incredibly defensive. Get over it.

 

[Vitto79]

Do you not see the decline because the numbers and eye test are telling you that, or because that's what you want to see?

One of these wingers, over the last 5 seasons, scored at a .56 per game rate, missed games with injury, flirted with 30 goals, and would be defined as an adequate 1st line co-piolot.

It would be hard to immediately identify if I'm talking about Neal or Kreider. Its Neal, and that's his stats since his 27 year old season. Thing is he had better numbers before that age.

So if Neal declined, what does Kreider do with a lower starting point? Ironically, the Neal numbers kind of support Kreider holding up. It's interesting that people look at another team's forward and see decline and diminishing play. But they look at Kreider and see a riser. Neal was an old school power forward that broke down. Its ironic to me again that the other guy lost his touch because his special physical attribute failed him with age. But our guy won't decline because he uses speed. Age and speed are basically going in opposite directions on a graph, universally.

He's 28 in 2 weeks. What you see is what you get. 29 for his next contract. I doubt he ever breaks 30 goals or 60 points. That's not a bad player, just not a star. It's just a question of roster building over the next stretch. With Chytil, Kravtsov, Buchnevich, and Kakko in the fold, where does CK fit in the not so distant future? What about other picks and prospects? UFA pick ups?

Kreider may lose his hold on a top 6 wing spot before his play drops. Assuming he maintains, those 4 wings may pass him by in the next 2 seasons, or after year 1 of a new contract. He would actually be an intriguing energy wing with speed and 25g, 20a production... at $4m per. $6.5-7m even if he avoids father time, isn't good cap management.

It’s going to take a few years for the kids to develop no ? Who plays top 6 wing if he’s gone

Again ufa signing and trading Kreider for a 1st plus sure but not if they are gonna be playing too many rooks

 

[LiveLongandProspal]

Just waiting for us to hire JD and trade for Adam Fox...

 

[Vitto79]

Just waiting for us to hire JD and trade for Adam Fox...

Yep gonna cost a 2nd for Fox isn’t it?

Oilers and Philly Just dealt a prospect similar for a 3rd

 

[Jaromir Jagr]

How is it completely “unrealistic” for them to re-sign Kreider and sign Panarin? Its fair if you disagree that it should happen, but unrealistic? Now youre just saying anything to be able to feel that your opinion* is right.

I am not at all upset if someone “challenges” my ideas that i put on a MESSAGE BOARD. Not at all. That is what this space is for. Its how someone talks down to someone else as if they know more than the next guy here and that is what you do, simply put. And multiple people have read your posts and know you act childish. I am perfectly ok with you having a differing opinion. You care about the team. So do I. It is how you come off. You can simply just disagree and not be a complete *****e about it.

I don't find it realistic that the Rangers would sign both of these guys. It's very possible 1 or the other, but both, I just don't see it.

 

[Ola]

The Maple Leafs played the Blues in St. Louis in February. Mike Babcock was talking about the Blues and their D. 5/6 of them in the lineup are long tall guys. They are not overly physical. They are difficult to play against. The Blues have had most of those players for a while and they haven't won anything. The Jets weren't playing well for a while. When the Jets got their game going in game 3 & 4, they looked like they were going to win the series. The Jets have better players but they have been bad for a while. They were a .500 team for the 2nd half of the season. They blew the division. They lost in the 1st round. Awful. Injuries hurt them too in the 2nd half.

The Stars are very similar to the Blues. They weren't a sure bet to make the playoffs. They have been playing playoff hockey for a while. The Stars beat the Blues 3 out 4. Two of those wins came in late February and early March when the Blues got rolling. It's not like the Blues and Jets which played every game in the fall when the Blues sucked. I liked the Blues to beat the Jets. I saw the Stars-Blues March 2 game in St.Louis. The Stars next game was against the Rangers. It as after the trading deadline. I was rooting for the Blues to win so they can challenge for the division. The Stars stomped the Blues.

Hopefully, the Stars can win tomorrow night and advance. They can beat the Blues. Hope everyone picks the Blues too.

The GM is responsible for building a team, not just making good moves.

Winnipeg should have been the contender this season. They look so heavy and flat up front. That is Chevy's work. Hayes played OK when I saw them, but given how their forwards look and what concerns they had even before the deadline -- trading for a 6'5 Hayes was a questionable move. They are not a well built team.

We can ridicule Yzerman for whatever move he has made, but Tampa's records is in many regards fantastic in a capped league. I loved many things he did there, very Detroit influenced. Had clear roles, and sought players for those roles. Got that interchangeable dimension, where kids just could fill-up the roster because they were picked for playing a certain role and when there was an opening there they got perfect support and could play to their strength. He also had an idea of what will work in this league, and while they have not won a Cup, it looks like he to a large degree has made the right calls.

For a long time, our management has failed to build a team in many ways in NY. We are always unbalanced. The latest example is that we really needed to get someone like Lemieux, it showed from day one when he got here, everyone on a team cannot have the same mentality. But for years we went with the old guard like Glass and McLeod and the likes who had no energy left. Did Gorton target Lemieux or was he just someone who fell into his lap almost? Its a long time ago, but getting Beaver without a RHS on the PP was just horrendous.

You obviously love Gorton and calls out anyone second-guessing him in any way. How can you be so convinced that Gorton can build a team? He is committed to the rebuild and I like that too. But when it comes to building a team, sometimes it just seems like a lot of spagetti-throwing... What does guys like Etem, Namestnikov, Lemieux, Strome and co have in common? What is the plan with our team? Its very Sather like so far in that regard. Take the Nils Lundkvist pick. What is the plan there? How many 5'11 puck moving RHS do we need on the blue-line? If we can get Fox we will have TDA, Pionk, Fox, Lundkvist and Keane there.

Brooks wrote this, its spot on:
https://nypost.com/2019/04/19/rangers-all-in-on-john-davidson-gamble-that-now-must-work/
"The organization’s infrastructure needs to be rebuilt, re-imagined and expanded just the way the Garden itself was over that three-year period earlier this decade. The operation in Hartford requires a dramatic overhaul. There is no cap on the amount of money a team can invest in scouting, the minor league system, an analytics department or sports science. This is where the Garden can flex its financial muscle. There is no reason in the world that the Rangers should not have the model next-gen operation. No reason why the Rangers should not become the US version of the Maple Leafs, who have been trend setters since Brendan Shanahan assumed the presidency in April of 2014."

Everything is waived off, Toronto signed some bad contracts.

There are a few facts that you cannot disregard from:

1. We have one of the worst farm systems in the league in Hartford. Its a complete joke. When players are brought over from European, the coach down there watch them for a few days in camp and see that they aren't their cup of tea and they return after a month or two. Maybe the coach should be involved in picking the players for the team? Or the guy getting the players should know what the coach wants? The team always suck.

We should have a good farm system, its just not good enough.

2. Our pro-scouting has huge issues. From Etem to Namestnikov to Smith and so forth, so many examples. Letting Stralsy walk. Dan Boyle? Some very very poor decisions, that I bet we would love to get a do-over just a few weeks into them.

We shouldn't have a worthless pro-scouting organization.

3. Slats and Gorton have struggled so much with his contract moves. If we list all contracts signed, its not an exaggeration to say that 75% of the decisions made were complete disasters. Its a fact, its impossible to argue against it. All the time we have forced the players into bridge deals, and then stood there a few years later with our pants down. Giving the over-the-hill UFA's long term deals that ends up being disasters.

Its Gorton's job to make the right calls. He haven't made them, not even remotely.

4. We have no direction as an organization. What is this organizations identity? Clark likes to get good people, I don't mind that. Speed is mentioned at times, but by Clark.

What is our plan on the ice? How should we play? What identity should this franchise have?

 

[effen]

But I like Newhook’s potential upside. He’s got more question marks than some of the top centers, but IMO his ceiling is right up there.

Sounds like Middlestadt.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Brooks hit then nail on the head, there is no cap in the AHL, sign a few of the top AHL UFAs to big contracts to get them there. Scouting has no cap, get more scouts, pry top scouts away from other teams with $$$.

 

[effen]

Ola, respectfully, you're making some pretty huge sweeping comments without taking into account every org makes mistakes at every level, every year.

I don't know what "no direction as an organization" means. Franchise identity is similarly nebulous.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Negative. To get pick 20 they need:

• Stars to win their series.
• Knights to win their series.

After the above, to get pick 18:

• Canes to make the conference finals.
• Blue Jackets to make the conference finals.

We can get to 19 the top 2 happen and one of the bottom 2, right? Not looking good for the Canes.