Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XXXVIII

[Ken Lund]

With Yzerman in Detroit, should we be studying their roster to see who is coming over? Or did he already bring to Tampa all the guys he likes? I haven't thought of the wings as a trade partner because both teams are rebuilding but he seems to like dealing with us.

 

[haohmaru]

Their blueline is underrated. Jones and Werenski rivals Hedman and McDonagh.

I'd take CBJ's starting six over TB's starting six any day of the week.

 

[DutchShamrock]

Maybe Hayes was his only contact in the organization after everyone else left.

Hayes may have been a source. Brooks had Avery's back big time and it came out later they talked during Avery's career.

 

[Kakko Schmakko]

Hayes may have been a source. Brooks had Avery's back big time and it came out later they talked during Avery's career.

Maybe Hayes reminded him of his childhood friend that protected him from getting beat up on the bus stops. Or maybe he just thinks Hayes is a good fit here.

 

[wafflepadsave]

I still hope Rangers get Jack Hughes if Devils decide to go with a more NHL ready guy in Kakko in a different position. He is the most talented guy in this 2019 draft in my view - especially in some years into the future.

Has anyone seen a rumor regarding Vancouver trying to get the Hughes brothers together?

 

[BobMarleyNYR]

I'm not ready to write off all offensive defensemen college prospects because a low-profile one 15 years ago failed to carve out a long NHL career.

Well, how many good already-drafted (or even drafted by us, for that matter) offensive D has this team produce in almost 30 years? I think the idea of drafting mobile, 2 way PMDs and hoping offense develops is the best strategy. Offensive d-men don't seem to work in NY, whether Ozolinsh or Poti or Sanguinetti or Gilroy.

 

[Matt4776]

Well, how many good already-drafted (or even drafted by us, for that matter) offensive D has this team produce in almost 30 years? I think the idea of drafting mobile, 2 way PMDs and hoping offense develops is the best strategy. Offensive d-men don't seem to work in NY, whether Ozolinsh or Poti or Sanguinetti or Gilroy.

This isn't NYR specific.

Defenseman are more likely to bust than forwards. This is a fact. I don't have the numbers, but I'd wager that OFD are more likely to bust than defensive d-men or "skating 2 way" a la Skjei. High risk high reward.

Nature of the beast.

 

[Machinehead]

Well, how many good already-drafted (or even drafted by us, for that matter) offensive D has this team produce in almost 30 years? I think the idea of drafting mobile, 2 way PMDs and hoping offense develops is the best strategy. Offensive d-men don't seem to work in NY, whether Ozolinsh or Poti or Sanguinetti or Gilroy.

Developing two elite offense-first defensemen was almost solely responsible for this team's one Cup in the last 80 years.

 

[Ori]

Has anyone seen a rumor regarding Vancouver trying to get the Hughes brothers together?

Yes they had their Sedin(s) - so no doubts in my mind that Jim Benning will try to get him. But it might cost them Elias ++ value package, but I would do it and moved him for Jack Hughes for sure he might be generational, Elias is not.

I doubt that Devils will do it though - you seldom see a franchise move their 1 oa.

 

[Ola]

With Yzerman in Detroit, should we be studying their roster to see who is coming over? Or did he already bring to Tampa all the guys he likes? I haven't thought of the wings as a trade partner because both teams are rebuilding but he seems to like dealing with us.

Good point, we have seen how NHL GM's often tend to keep dealing with someone they have done it with before.

But one big difference is that Tampa was the biggest, only?, buyer on the market when we were the biggest sellers.

 

[Barnaby]

With Yzerman in Detroit, should we be studying their roster to see who is coming over? Or did he already bring to Tampa all the guys he likes? I haven't thought of the wings as a trade partner because both teams are rebuilding but he seems to like dealing with us.

I doubt that they are a fit any time soon unless you're talking about a slight move up in a 2nd or 3rd round if someone is in love with a player. I think past deals were more based on opportunity.

I guess it's potentially possible a little further down the line if there were to be imbalances among the teams young players and you saw a D for F type of deal, but I don't think that would be any time soon. Both teams should just be in pure accumulation mode.

 

[egelband]

If the Rangers are able to trade their way into the top ten, I definitely, definitely want it to be used on an offensive player. You can find defense later than offense in the draft.

And re: Kreider, I think we tend to undervalue him. For a team with designs on being good next year, he is a very valuable asset. I would expect a return similar to the Lucic trade (#13 plus two good prospects) from a few years ago if he is moved.

I think he's well regarded. It's just...he's only signed for the one season. If he has a reasonable contract for three or four more years he's definitely worth a top ten pick and a ready-to-roll-prospect. But without that he's basically a rental.

 

[Jaromir Jagr]

Has anyone seen a rumor regarding Vancouver trying to get the Hughes brothers together?

I've heard this but haven't come across anything concrete. Seems more like wishful thinking from Vancouver fans. I don't see any reality in which NJ trades that pick or doesn't take Hughes.

When was the last time the 1OA was even traded? It's just not practical in a salary cap league.

Offensive d-men don't seem to work in NY, whether Ozolinsh or Poti or Sanguinetti or Gilroy.

I wouldn't equate their failures with 'not working in NY.' The Rangers just need to do a better job in that department. Getting ADA was a good start.

 

[cheech70]

Developing two elite offense-first defensemen was almost solely responsible for this team's one Cup in the last 80 years.

And then after winning the cup they trade one...to me worst trade in Ranger history

 

[eco's bones]

Developing two elite offense-first defensemen was almost solely responsible for this team's one Cup in the last 80 years.

It's funny actually about Zubov because I don't think the Rangers thought he was going to become an offensive D. There really weren't any indications that he would become an offensive player when he was playing in Russia. He played for the Russian Olympic team in 1992 but was one of the stay at home D's. The biggest deal on the Russian defense that year was Vladimir Malakhov--who a lot of people expected would become a superstar. Russia had other D from that team carrying the mail but Sergei wasn't one of them.

Zubov's rookie North American pro year was 1992-93 which he split between Binghamton and the Rangers and the time in Binghamton was crucial to his taking the step forward of becoming an offensive minded D. The Binghamton team had a high octane offense and that clearly helped Sergei develop his offensive abilities. A funny thing is that in the Rangers Stanley Cup year Zubov led the Rangers in scoring as a second pairing D partnering with Kevin Lowe--and also that Zubov didn't start that year with the Rangers--he started the year in Binghamton--played two or three games (I was at the last one) and then was recalled and never looked back.

 

[haohmaru]

Has anyone seen a rumor regarding Vancouver trying to get the Hughes brothers together?

I think that's more of a rumor that people in the media have created than something Vancouver is actually pursuing. Think Sedins 2.0

 

[haohmaru]

I doubt that Devils will do it though - you seldom see a franchise move their 1 oa.

Has it ever happened?

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Has it ever happened?

1998, 1999, 2002, 2003

 

[haohmaru]

1998, 1999, 2002, 2003

Huh, I didn't know the Penguins moved up to select Fleury.

There's actually a whole article dedicated to it. Happened a lot more than I would've thought.

We’re No. 1! The History of Trading the NHL’s Top Pick

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Huh, I didn't know the Penguins moved up to select Fleury.

There's actually a whole article dedicated to it. Happened a lot more than I would've thought.

We’re No. 1! The History of Trading the NHL’s Top Pick

Well, to be fair... It happened 4 times in 6 years. But those 4 times are the only instances in the last 38 years

 

[SnowblindNYR]

1998, 1999, 2002, 2003

Weird that it was a thing that happened 4 out of 6 years and never before and never again. (Unless you didn't include some of the years).

 

[haohmaru]

Interesting that it hasn't happened in the salary cap era.

Unless it's a swap of high picks - ie... 1OA for 3OA and an NHL player, I don't see it happening in a league that really needs cost controlled elite talent.

 

[SA16]

In each of those trades it looks like the team trading number 1 got horrible value

 

[Edge]

I think he's well regarded. It's just...he's only signed for the one season. If he has a reasonable contract for three or four more years he's definitely worth a top ten pick and a ready-to-roll-prospect. But without that he's basically a rental.

That’s why I think any potential return splits the difference.

I think you can get a pick in the mid-teens, but you’re probably not getting the prospects.

You’re likely to get a little more than a typical rental because the acquiring team gets him for the whole year, and because they have some degree of a safety net should they underperform as a team (Kreider becomes their TDL player to move).

 

[Jaromir Jagr]

1998, 1999, 2002, 2003

It must be noted this was prior to the salary cap, which with time has made it clear having high-end players on ELC's is a critical advantage to building a cup contender.

I just don't see any way in which a team moves a 1OA these days. Especially with the league trending younger and with a potential elite center like Hughes sitting there.

I would give it well below a 1% chance of happening and the return these days would be far more significant than whatever it was the Panthers were getting in 02 and 03.