Speculation: Roster Building Thread - Part XXXVII

[cheech70]

Thinking about the Copp and Buch trade..Maybe Buch would have given us the same down the stretch as Copp. Is it fair to compare the cost of Copp and what we received for Buch. Does the Buch return lessen the Copp cost? If we kept Buch as a self rental no 2nd and Blaise. I don't think I am explaining this clearly.

 

[bbny]

If the Rangers don’t re-sign Strome or Copp or some equivalent, I don’t think it’s a foregone conclusion that Georgiev isn’t back here. He gets a lot of shit from fans (me included), but looking at some of the goaltending this postseason, he’s significantly better and a potential starter for some teams. Even playoff teams. I don’t think they should just let him walk for nothing if they can help it. If they don’t spend the money, they should be able to give him a qualifying offer to retain his rights.

 

[HFsNumber1Heel]

If the Rangers don’t re-sign Strome or Copp or some equivalent, I don’t think it’s a foregone conclusion that Georgiev isn’t back here. He gets a lot of shit from fans (me included), but looking at some of the goaltending this postseason, he’s significantly better and a potential starter for some teams. Even playoff teams. I don’t think they should just let him walk for nothing if they can help it. If they don’t spend the money, they should be able to give him a qualifying offer to retain his rights.

That money (about $3 million) is going to be used to beef up the lineup. It could be the difference between keeping a Copp or a Motte.

They're going to go for an older former starter or an analytics goalie (Charlie Lindgren).

 

[jerseyjinx94]

They (Hajek/Gauthier/Georgiev) have no value. 7th round pick or a conditional pick at best for any of them.

I don’t agree with this at all.

Hajek is probably worth a 5-7th rounder.

Gauthier a 3-5th. Remember he’s young, fast, and big. Some team may give him a shot in a top 9 role and value that. Yes, they may wait to see if we non-tender them, but a team like montreal has like 3 3rds and a bunch of picks, might value adding the body over a shot in the dark pick.

Georgiev may be able to get you a couple of mid-round picks.

 

[bbny]

That money (about $3 million) is going to be used to beef up the lineup. It could be the difference between keeping a Copp or a Motte.

They're going to go for an older former starter or an analytics goalie (Charlie Lindgren).

That makes a good amount of sense as well, for sure, but I'm thinking the Rangers are probably best served to not have any more money committed past next season than they already do. Cap flexibility is worth a lot next summer. I think the center options are better next summer also if it comes to that.

I think Georgiev is worth at least a 3rd round pick based on what I'm seeing. Maybe even a 2nd. I don't think it's great asset management to let that go for nothing.

 

[BobMarleyNYR]

Hajek might get that in September. Gauthier, maybe a 4th... Georgiev, unless qualified, has 0 value as UFA. If he is, rwo 3rds might be overkill.. Don't forget, 3rd and even 4th round picks have considerable value in recent years. Gauthier for a 4th next year, yes...

 

[Anthony5967]

Motte is a solid fourth liner and brought Vancouver back a fourth. Gauthier is not getting the Rangers a top-four round pick. He had his chances all season. He has no finish.

 

[Avery16]

I don’t agree with this at all.

Hajek is probably worth a 5-7th rounder.

Gauthier a 3-5th. Remember he’s young, fast, and big. Some team may give him a shot in a top 9 role and value that. Yes, they may wait to see if we non-tender them, but a team like montreal has like 3 3rds and a bunch of picks, might value adding the body over a shot in the dark pick.

Georgiev may be able to get you a couple of mid-round picks.

If we could’ve had two fifths for Hajek and Gauthier, they would have been gone months ago.

 

[RangerBoy]

Philly has no cap space, any “big moves” they make this summer is going to be hockey trades.

Provorov($6.75M) and Konecny($5.5M). Three seasons remaining on both contracts. Those are the players the Flyers will probably attempt to trade. Both players have value. Elliotte Friedman mentioned JVR with one year at $7M is available. His salary is only $4M. He is owed a $1M signing bonus.

Scott Laughton with 4 years remaining at $3M AAV could help the Rangers. The Rangers need a 3rd line center.

 

[huerter]

They (Hajek/Gauthier/Georgiev) have no value. 7th round pick or a conditional pick at best for any of them.

One or more will be in the Blackhawks deal, you'd have to think.

 

[effen]

Laughtons photo should be under the "Just A Guy" stats page.

While the Rangers could certainly use a couple JAGs I don't think they'd want one with that much term. If he has 2 years he'd be worth a mild overpay, all things considered.

Would be fine with getting him. A fully matured Brett Howden.

 

[Ola]

So much wrong with this post. And it starts with referencing the Panarin-Strome-Blackwell line. Like please don’t reference that combo as being a better matchup line than like…anyone. That is vomit worthy.

Doubling down stating the center position isn’t involved in physical battles (completely untrue) and then referencing guys like Cirelli and Gourde is also misplaced. Those guys are willing to go to the physical areas, get their hands dirty. Even Tyler Johnson was to a degree. Yamamoto is not that player. Stay the f*** away from him. Far away.

1. On Yamamoto, sure it’s up for debate. From my POV, he meet some of the criterias and others are unknown.

2. But I don’t agree at all with the rest. This is the NHL, it sounds like you think that a smaller player that is “willing to go to the physical areas, get their hands dirty” is something unique. I think you will have a hard time finding many that don’t meet that criteria and ever made it to the NHL. We must misunderstand each other here, what do you mean?

3. I said that a center isn’t involved in physical battles where he benefits from being big 99% of the time he is on the ice.

You don’t think that is correct? All I can say is open the stop watch function on your smart phone and watch a hockey game. What is the real number? Physically engaged 5% of the time and how many of those 5% do a player really benefit from being stronger/bigger?

4. For Christ sake, look around the league. How can these things even be questioned?

Hockey will never be completely black and white. Theo Fleury was great when size was a requirement, prime Malkin skated well compared to anyone despite being big. But the bigger checking line centers are almost extinct. Just go to nhl.com and sort centers by size. Where are the 6’5-6 centers?

Guys like Ryan Johansen, Sean Monahan, Marc Schleife, PLD, Sean Coutier and many others — are very gifted hockey players — but hardly thriving and carrying their teams. On the other side of the spectrum, these smaller speedier centers thrives, they are match-up monsters, and they produce.

Size is really important on the Wing. (a) It’s there the physical battles are. (b) Unlike the centers, it’s not their job to cover the entire ice sheet. A winger can be two zones behind the play on the back check, preferably a center is back in time to nip the attacking wingers in the heels.

 

[Ola]

I think I have an idea - we need an affordable, young 2C with a 1C ceiling and be able to obtain this asset cheaply

Haha, I guess we are all guilty of the above.

But seriously, the more I think about it, the more it stands out that we have three guys who are valuable, of which none really fits the roster like a hand in a glove.

Brendan Schneider has two guys who can’t be moved in front of him. There is a small chance Trouba could be moved after two more seasons here, but it can’t be counted on that he still will have value then.

Kaapo Kakko is a very talented young winger, with a sick winning instinct who is complete in many ways. But he isn’t a counter attack player who is a great fit with Ziba and he isn’t a perfect natural fit with Panarin either. Kakko also really should play on a PP, a classic playmaker on the right side. We haven’t had any room there.

It’s not like we are super great at RW on the depth chart, but Kakko haven’t jumped at his shots there — mostly because not really getting to play to his strengths — and at least in terms of style, Kravy fits better with Ziba than Kakko.

And Laf is naturally behind both Panarin and Kreider on the depth chart at LW.

The above can be misunderstood, it’s not in any way commenting on these guys’ future. Just saying that they aren’t perfect fits on the roster.

Realistically, if we are trading for a young center, it’s not like it’s totally illogical that one of those three would go. Right?

I like Newhook in Colorado the most. Don’t think either of the young Cs in Columbus can be had. They have two real gems that will start to make noise sooner rather than later. LAK have rushed their kids and that is always a recipe for disaster in this league right now. Newhook haven’t taken of, but which young players are? There aren’t many. He got the wheels. I would do Schneider for Newhook.

 

[mas0764]

Not every player develops best by being thrust into a top NHL role too early.

You know that

I didn’t say right now

 

[gump116]

I’m on the same wagon. Don’t just not qualify them. Move them for mid to late round picks to recoup those picks and it’ll wash those moves except Copp.

Those picks aside they do have assets. Whether they would trade them or not is a different story.

Lundkvist
2022 2nd
2023 1st
Othmann
Robertson
Jones

Those are all really good assets. Nothing they gave up (even 30th overall) is really a PRIME asset.

Othmann is the one guy not on the roster who may be considered a prime asset by us and other teams. Potentially a top 10, at worst top 30 prospect in the league.

Outside of that, it’s young roster players like Schneider, Miller, and Lafrenierre who may be worth trading for a top young center. Similarly Kakko or Chytil, but they don’t have the same value right now of those other guys. For example, I don’t think Florida would do this but you probably trade Schneider or even Miller in a package for Lundell who is a great defensive 3c already and would be the perfect long term 2c on this team.

 

[RangersFan1994]

How about Lundqvist to Montreal for Christian Dvorak? Probably have to unload nemeth to make the cap work.

Rather trade for Dubois, Dach or someone who is skilled with some emotion and bite.. Dvorak is not that good and overrated. No thanks. Rather resign Strome than trade for Dvorak

 

[gump116]

How about Lundqvist to Montreal for Christian Dvorak? Probably have to unload nemeth to make the cap work.

Rather trade for Dubois, Dach or someone who is skilled with some emotion and bite.. Dvorak is not that good and overrated. No thanks. Rather resign Strome than trade for Dvorak

If Montreal would take Nemeth with Lundkvist for Dvorak, that is a potentially really good trade for us. Only adds like 2m in cap for a potential #2 center signed at a reasonable contract for 3 more years. One of the benefits of Panarin is he can elevate other players on his line. Wouldn’t be surprised to see someone like Dvorak (or Chytil) put up similar numbers to Strome if given the opportunity.

 

[CLW]

I don't see this management and coaching team go for another "young center". They don't know what to do with Chytil as it is. Fil is not a 3rd line checking center at heart, and he doesn't really fit with Panarin anymore than Zib does (or does he if Panarin gets back on track?). He's yet another square peg youngster isn't he?

 

[HFsNumber1Heel]

Haha, I guess we are all guilty of the above.

But seriously, the more I think about it, the more it stands out that we have three guys who are valuable, of which none really fits the roster like a hand in a glove.

Brendan Schneider has two guys who can’t be moved in front of him. There is a small chance Trouba could be moved after two more seasons here, but it can’t be counted on that he still will have value then.

Kaapo Kakko is a very talented young winger, with a sick winning instinct who is complete in many ways. But he isn’t a counter attack player who is a great fit with Ziba and he isn’t a perfect natural fit with Panarin either. Kakko also really should play on a PP, a classic playmaker on the right side. We haven’t had any room there.

It’s not like we are super great at RW on the depth chart, but Kakko haven’t jumped at his shots there — mostly because not really getting to play to his strengths — and at least in terms of style, Kravy fits better with Ziba than Kakko.

And Laf is naturally behind both Panarin and Kreider on the depth chart at LW.

The above can be misunderstood, it’s not in any way commenting on these guys’ future. Just saying that they aren’t perfect fits on the roster.

Realistically, if we are trading for a young center, it’s not like it’s totally illogical that one of those three would go. Right?

I like Newhook in Colorado the most. Don’t think either of the young Cs in Columbus can be had. They have two real gems that will start to make noise sooner rather than later. LAK have rushed their kids and that is always a recipe for disaster in this league right now. Newhook haven’t taken of, but which young players are? There aren’t many. He got the wheels. I would do Schneider for Newhook.

Schneider is not getting traded. He's in a perfect position to come along slowly on his ELC and when that's up, he replaces Trouba (the summer of 2024).

Kaako has another 1-2 years to figure things out here. He either will become a line driver/cycle monster and learn to shoot more, or he'll be part of a package if the Othmanns/Cullyes pass him.

One thing the Rangers have been pretty bad at historically is patience and internal replacements. It's ok for kids to be secondary/support players their first few years in the league and then become main guys. A classic example if the post-94 Rangers. Smith leaves that team alone, they're a contender the next decade.

 

[HFsNumber1Heel]

Othmann is the one guy not on the roster who may be considered a prime asset by us and other teams. Potentially a top 10, at worst top 30 prospect in the league.

Outside of that, it’s young roster players like Schneider, Miller, and Lafrenierre who may be worth trading for a top young center. Similarly Kakko or Chytil, but they don’t have the same value right now of those other guys. For example, I don’t think Florida would do this but you probably trade Schneider or even Miller in a package for Lundell who is a great defensive 3c already and would be the perfect long term 2c on this team.

Othmann is Drury's first pick as GM which he did all alone before he started making scouting changes. He's not going to dump that. This is not Sather trading all of Smith's picks.

ELCs are the lifeblood of the NHL. It's impossible to roll out a team of all vets. You might get lucky like that one year Florida made the playoffs in the mid-2010s, but it's not sustainable.

 

[Ola]

Schneider is not getting traded. He's in a perfect position to come along slowly on his ELC and when that's up, he replaces Trouba (the summer of 2024).

Kaako has another 1-2 years to figure things out here. He either will become a line driver/cycle monster and learn to shoot more, or he'll be part of a package if the Othmanns/Cullyes pass him.

One thing the Rangers have been pretty bad at historically is patience and internal replacements. It's ok for kids to be secondary/support players their first few years in the league and then become main guys. A classic example if the post-94 Rangers. Smith leaves that team alone, they're a contender the next decade.

Yeah for sure, I am definitely not saying that either don’t have a future here.

Just saying, in the off chance we actually manage to pull of a trade for a young center that can step in — reasonably, it’s going to be one of those 3 that are moved. Not the tier below them.

And it’s not like there aren’t any examples in history of trades like that being made either. Like the Nolan for Ozolinsh trade was huge for both teams. I am not advocating that we give up on either kid — of course — or even trade for a more established player, like say Iginla for Niewendyk. Kid for kid. Nils won’t get us Newhook from Colorado. Schneider might.

 

[mike14]

I don’t agree with this at all.

Hajek is probably worth a 5-7th rounder.

Gauthier a 3-5th. Remember he’s young, fast, and big. Some team may give him a shot in a top 9 role and value that. Yes, they may wait to see if we non-tender them, but a team like montreal has like 3 3rds and a bunch of picks, might value adding the body over a shot in the dark pick.

Georgiev may be able to get you a couple of mid-round picks.

Gauthier will be 25 and 7 years post draft at the start of next season, having never really broken into the league. That doesn't mean he's no chance of making it, but history would be against him and I don't think he'd be viewed as 'young' by league standards.
If Drury can get a 5th for him he's done well

 

[Ola]

Trading Miller is ‘killing my darlings’ territory for me.

But just for the sake of argument — which young center would be worth giving up Miller for? Stutzle? Jack Hughes?

I said early this year that there isn’t a player save for McDavid that I would trade K’Andre for given our cap situation. Like we can’t afford any big contract and we can’t move one single of the contracts we have (only Fox and Shesty don’t have NMCs).

When saying that, I envisioned that he wouldn’t break out as fast as he did and could be locked up say 5 years at 4m or whatever next summer. Miller won’t have arbitration rights then. Kreider got a 5 year deal at that age. About the same contract for Miller.

Now he might be a bit more expensive which brings his value down a bit. But at the same time, like we can’t trade Miller for someone that is due to make 8-12m per in 1-2 years. Right? It’s impossible given our cap situation.

 

[Ola]

I don't see this management and coaching team go for another "young center". They don't know what to do with Chytil as it is. Fil is not a 3rd line checking center at heart, and he doesn't really fit with Panarin anymore than Zib does (or does he if Panarin gets back on track?). He's yet another square peg youngster isn't he?

This is how I see it, think it’s a bit apples and oranges. Chytil’s problem is that he doesn’t play an advanced offensive game. I think Gallant sees him as a 3rd line center.

Chytil isn’t dumb, but look at his history. He hasn’t been a PPG player and run a PP since he was 16 y/o. After that he played against men in the Czech Rep. 8 pts in 38 games. We deemed that he was done developing their and rushed him to the AHL. Chytil was 17 to start that first year in the AHL. He was amazing down there, 31 pts in 45 games. But the AHL isn’t an easy league, it’s not like he got any time with the puck on his stick.

What you have today is of course a product of that. A kid who haven’t held a stick with a puck on it and time on his hand in 6 years or since he was a 15-16 y/o in the Czech Rep.

What Chytil does well is put his head down and skate. He has good hands and can make plays down low. But honestly, he got a long way to go to think the game on a level like Panarin’s.

Strome was very different in that regard. He had pwned the Canadian junior leagues and is really good at processing the play very fast. His problem was that he couldn’t create any room for himself in the NHL. When Panarin opens things up for him, he broke out. Give Chytil time and he ends up in a situation he isn’t used to.

 

[Lays]

Johan Larsson would be a really good addition. So would Michael Raffl. So would Tyler Motte.

I disagree that this team has lots of assets anymore. They had a lot of assets. They just traded a bunch for Copp, Braun and Vatrano.

Hopefully Drury can use players like Gauthier, Hajek and Georgiev to recoup a few middle-round picks.

What did we trade for those 3 players (also forgot Motte) that could be considered legit assets aside from the pieces we moved for Copp? All we moved were 2 2nds and Morgan Barron. Sure the 2nd became a 1st (because we made the f***ing ECF!) but nothing significant was lost, and I really liked Barron

Trading Miller is ‘killing my darlings’ territory for me.

But just for the sake of argument — which young center would be worth giving up Miller for? Stutzle? Jack Hughes?

I said early this year that there isn’t a player save for McDavid that I would trade K’Andre for given our cap situation. Like we can’t afford any big contract and we can’t move one single of the contracts we have (only Fox and Shesty don’t have NMCs).

When saying that, I envisioned that he wouldn’t break out as fast as he did and could be locked up say 5 years at 4m or whatever next summer. Miller won’t have arbitration rights then. Kreider got a 5 year deal at that age. About the same contract for Miller.

Now he might be a bit more expensive which brings his value down a bit. But at the same time, like we can’t trade Miller for someone that is due to make 8-12m per in 1-2 years. Right? It’s impossible given our cap situation.

I’m not moving Miller for anyone that isn’t a young established 1C or 1D. This kid will be a top pair defenseman as soon as late next season