Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XXXVII

[haohmaru]

If you let one game decide whether or not you want a player, you either wanted him all along or didn't want him to begin with.

Or never watched out of market games? Tough to analyze players if you don't see them play a lot.

 

[Good Intentions]

Real question - does Lias carry any value in moving up?

Is Vesey for a 4th out of the question?

 

[Edge]

Definitely wasn't suggesting packaging 4 firsts to move up, but rather advocating the retention of those picks to get 5 assets for the sake of expediency.

I'd like a balance.

I think we have broad-based talent. But IMO, this is the draft we really take some big swings. I've always believed that.

I think that's also why the Rangers are interested in two top-10 picks as well.

I don't think the Rangers were/are content to come away from this draft with a pair of doubles. I think they've always wanted to come away with a couple of home runs.

A few weeks ago I think the Rangers were hoping to hit two home runs. I also think the draft lottery changes things a little.

Kakko has a chance to be a grand-slam home run. And now they're exploring the chance to maybe have that second homerun be more than a solo shot.

Based on what we've heard, it's becoming obvious that there is some talent at the top of this draft that the Rangers feel have very good odds of being a home run. The fact that they also have a chance to add Kakko, puts the Rangers in a extremely unique situation.

I've always advocated for more chips at the table, and while I'm not interested in trading all of them in at once, we also have an opportunity to come away from this draft with something truly special.

If we can add Kakko, and the Rangers can get someone they have strong feelings about in the top 10, that might be worth going to the podium 3 or 4 times in two rounds instead of 5 or 6 times in the same span.

 

[Fugazy]

I may be changing my mind on Panarin. He was OK last night and playing on the outside. Maybe use his cap allotment to take on a bad contract and try to get a first rder above 12.

I wouldn’t let a one game sample size alter a decision about a player.

 

[haohmaru]

Real question - does Lias carry any value in moving up?

No. And we'd be idiots at this point to give up him.

Is Vesey for a 4th out of the question?

I think you could get a 4th. Possibly a late 3rd.

 

[bl02]

Trade Kreider for a Top 10 pick, or some sort of package involving it. Get Zegras/Turcotte.

Trade the WPG pick (plus a 3rd or something if the pick ends up being lower/not in the teens) to MIN for Kaprizov, before Fenton stops being bad.

Boom.

I don't think he's been as bad as some claimed. I don't think the Boston and Nashville deals (Granlund has not been that good) were terrible. I think he had like 5 points in his last 22. But the Nino trade was bad. Albeit if the reports are true that he could have traded Eric Staal for a first and didn't then that would be pretty bad as well lol

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I don't think he's been as bad as some claimed. I don't think the Boston and Nashville deals (Granlund has not been that good) were terrible. I think he had like 5 points in his last 22. But the Nino trade was bad. Albeit if the reports are true that he could have traded Eric Staal for a first and didn't then that would be pretty bad as well lol

Eric Staal didn't want to move and I think he had No Trade Protection.

 

[Edge]

IMO, the Rangers don’t need depth, they need as many high end prospects as they can acquire. Gorton has been adding depth in trades. I’m all for them trading into the top ten to get a top end center.

The funny thing is we potentially have enough ammo that it doesn't have to be either/or.

There's a very real possibility that this team could pay a premium to have two picks in the top 10, and still not have to worry about their ability to grab depth in the second round and beyond.

On top of that, there's a very real possibility that this team, even after paying said premium, could very well head into next year's draft with another top 10 pick, and an additional first later in the draft, for the fourth consecutive year!

A. The time we are in is that damn unique.

B. That's how many resources we've given ourselves to work with.

Now history is going to judge Gorton and Clark by the targets they successfully hit with the ammo they've acquired.

But I don't know if we truly grasp just how much ammo they've accumulated.

 

[haohmaru]

But I don't know if we truly grasp just how much ammo they've accumulated.

And if Dallas makes the WCF's, Zooks signs with the Stars, and TB wins the Cup we'll have SUPPORT ARTILLERY to go with the above ammo.

 

[Edge]

Real question - does Lias carry any value in moving up?

Is Vesey for a 4th out of the question?

1. Yes. But I don't think it's a smart move or one that I am particularly inclined to make.

2. I think you can get a third for him.

 

[bl02]

Eric Staal didn't want to move and I think he had No Trade Protection.

Just heard the rumor that Boston was looking at him for their first. Did not know he had NTC

 

[Edge]

And if Dallas makes the WCF's, Zooks signs with the Stars, and TB wins the Cup we'll have SUPPORT ARTILLERY to go with the above ammo.

At a minimum, barring any trades, even the "worst case" scenario for the Rangers has them owning 5 picks in the first 62 selections. That's without the Dallas and Tampa picks becoming firsts, and that's without any potential Kreider trade.

At the very least, we'll pick 2nd, 31st, 37th, and have two picks in the late 50s or early 60s. That's the floor.

The ceiling is something along the lines of 2nd, 19th, 28th, 31st and 37th.

The most likely reality is somewhere between the two extremes.

At the very least, they've got a way to start conversations. Now whether those conversations benefit from the best possible draft positions, or eventually involve roster players is another matter. We have a rough idea of a minimum starting point, and it's a good place to at least begin the exploratory process.

 

[duhmetreE]

If you're not trading Kreider, then you don't really have any other ammo for getting into the Top 10.

Rangers aren't trading any of their younger guys. I don't see them trading several of their first rounders just to move up to the Top 10.

As much as you might be on the fence on trading Kreider...if you want a Top 10 pick, he's kinda the only trade bait for that.

Yeah, trading Kreider would be a reactionary thing at the draft. IF a player is there that we like.

If we are to trade Kreider, I'd rather go the route of a 'hockey-trade'.

I'd still keep him, depending on his ask.

 

[duhmetreE]

I may be changing my mind on Panarin. He was OK last night and playing on the outside. Maybe use his cap allotment to take on a bad contract and try to get a first rder above 12.

Getting Kakko changes things. We have too many wingers to begin with. I was assuming, we were to land a Center with our first pick.

Panarin setting up Zibanejad would still be amazing to watch

 

[haohmaru]

Kreider has to bring back a top 4D, IMHO. That's where this team needs to build from here on out (after Kakko/Hughes @ #2). I don't think I move him for picks unless it was a high-ish 1st (top 15) -plus-

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Kreider has to bring back a top 4D, IMHO. That's where this team needs to build from here on out (after Kakko/Hughes @ #2). I don't think I move him for picks unless it was a high-ish 1st (top 15) -plus-

Thats a high ask for a pending UFA.

We do need some help on the back end, I agree with that.

 

[haohmaru]

Thats a high ask for a pending UFA.

We do need some help on the back end, I agree with that.

I don't think it is if he's traded before the draft - he's cost controlled for another year and that team has a year to sign him.

McD had a year+ left on his contract. There's value in that year. I'm not looking at top 5, or whatever, but if someone throws out #14 and a prospect then I'm all ears.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I don't think it is if he's traded before the draft - he's cost controlled for another year and that team has a year to sign him.

McD had a year+ left on his contract. There's value in that year. I'm not looking at top 5, or whatever, but if someone throws out #14 and a prospect then I'm all ears.

Yeah I think 14+ is possible.

Chakya needs to make the playoffs next year and Kreider is an analytics God.

 

[Trxjw]

Does anyone know if the 2020 Dallas pick is protected? I wasn't able to find anything on it.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

Does anyone know if the 2020 Dallas pick is protected? I wasn't able to find anything on it.

Pretty sure it’s completely unprotected.

If Zucc re-signs the Ottawa scenario is a possibility.

 

[SA16]

Protecting picks is kind of a sham anyway. Teams do it way too often in spots they should not.

 

[Trxjw]

Pretty sure it’s completely unprotected.

If Zucc re-signs the Ottawa scenario is a possibility.

That could be huge. Dallas is a decent team but also one of those you could see missing the playoffs if they face some injuries.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

Protecting picks is kind of a sham anyway. Teams do it way too often in spots they should not.

Like the Jets top 3 protecting the first we got.

That really nails down what kind of GM Chevy is lmao.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

That could be huge. Dallas is a decent team but also one of those you could see missing the playoffs if they face some injuries.

Imagine we get two top 10 picks in NEXT year’s draft? In addition to Kakko?

Oh lordy. We’d be building 50-60 Canadiens type shit at that point.

 

[SA16]

Like the Jets top 3 protecting the first we got.

That really nails down what kind of GM Chevy is lmao.

Yea I just mean you can't protect a pick two years in a row so really the correct time to use it is just if you think this years draft is better than next years draft. Most teams that are trading the picks are borderline playoff teams anyway so it's not like they are giving away huge lotto odds to do it. Given the 2020 draft is supposed to be great you probably want to protect the pick but maybe in 2019 it would have been a bad idea as then if you hit you are giving away an unprotected 2020 pick.

But yea, thinks like the WPG one is just pointless.