Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XXXVI

[True Blue]

hence 'semi-strawman'. You, or some, were saying, 'no because a hypothetical unicorn may present itself'. Setting up a false reality to prove your point.

Where have I ever said that? Can you point to where I said that success lies with the ability of such a unicorn? If you can do that, then you have your straw man. If you cannot, then you are clearly debating an issue with me that I have not raised. Hence the sole straw man argument in this case is yours.

Being the best UFA available doesn't mean they are on the same level. There's no connection. Panarin is a superior player.

Are we really going to get start debating semantics? Ok, let me be crystal clear. Parise = Panarin.

Max dollars? That'd be over $16M. I wouldn't be surprised if he signed for 6/70.

Why would the premier free agent sign for anything less than max years? Isn't that 7 years? Or do you think that he will not get such an offer? He is getting at a minimum of 7 years at $11m per . At least.

Wasting? Nothing is 'wasting'. That's non-sense.

If he does the exact same thing next year with the Rangers that he did this year, they are not a playoff team. Is that not called wasting a year of his prime?

We will hopefully be competing next year. As in playing/competing in meaningful games. Improving

Hopefully the Rangers win the Cup next year. Hopefully. I have my reservations on that. Just like I have reservations on the being competitive. You are now talking a full year without Hayes or Zucc. You are now talking about another full year of depreciation on Staal, Smith & Shattenkirk. You are now talking about Henke being another year older. At best you will see a time share with him. He is not going to all of a sudden be relegated to 20 games a year.

Based on what do you base your belief that this team will be materially better next year?

He would help the team transition over the next year or two. How many close games were we in? that we lost? Changing out Ruff's antiquated 'defensive' structure, in and of itself, should yield noticeable improvements. Adding an elite producer should help. Getting Zibs an elite- playmaker, should help. Getting the Ruskies some leadership, should help.

Ruff's defense was not great, but the personnel was overall poor. That does not change next year. The Rusikes already have leadership here. So do the other players. There is no doubt that he makes team better. There is every doubt that his presence on this team would suddenly propel them to new heights.

You are also ignoring the fact that you are removing him from a team where he has great support and placing him on a team that he will not be so supported. Or do you view him as a player who can place a franchise on his back and carry it? If so, let's discuss how dealing with such immense pressure will be dealt with.

'Saddled' ... 'Albatross contract' because he's out of his prime and he will turn into a potato at 30... I forgot... the pejoratives are overwhelming.

When he is 32 and no longer the player that he once was, being saddled is paying him $11m for an immovable contract.

He will be an elite-top tier point producer until 34-35. He will be paid fair value and earn his pay. The team will be filled with ELCs and/or RFA's. In 2 more seasons, hopefully sooner, $26M worth of dead weight come off the books. If you want to talk about 'wasting', that is what it looks like.

How many players can you point to that were elite at 34-35? Give me a number please.

 

[GAGLine]

I don't get this notion that the Rangers have never rebuilt before. That's just untrue. They did it when The Cat took over in the 60s, they did it from 1975-78, they sort of did one following the 1985 season, they did it in 04, and now.

There were also retools like when Herb Brooks took over in the early 80s, when Neil Smith took over in 1989 (and he had a lot of Patrick's previous picks to play around with because those NCAA kids all turned pro around 88 or 89), from Torts to AV, and then recently before the letter went out.

The one in 04 was a half-assed rebuild at best.

 

[True Blue]

I’m actually quite impressed by the fact that I disagree with every single one of those points.

I am more impressed that you chose to respond to that drivel.

 

[True Blue]

ADA has been given a bum rap for too long. i think his attitude and jersey shore shtick works just fine.

he seems well liked, has an engaging personality on and off the ice and seems to be easy going and fun off the ice. I've yet t to see anything that needs to be "healthy scratched" out of him.

the more i see this kid the more im shocked hes not punching babies and stealing money out of the salvation army bucket.

bum rapp.

I will say that this is one of the more amazing things from the entire year. You just never give up on this. Like a woodpecker constantly pecking at the same spot, letting the noise drown out everything else.

 

[HFsNumber1Heel]

The one in 04 was a half-assed rebuild at best.

I wouldn't call it half assed. The league literally reset and the early success was a shock. A lot of those picks from 04-09 became important parts of the Rangers for that entire run they went on.

If they win that Cup in 2014 or 2015 that rebuild is viewed entirely different.

 

[HFsNumber1Heel]

@bobbop I think the Rangers are fine with D prospects now. Hajek looks promising and to a lesser extent Lindgren looks like he could be an NHLer. K. Miller the sky is the limit for his potential. Lundkvist looks very good and no one talks about him ever. So that's a good start. Reannaunen (sp?) has sleeper potential, and then Keane. Gross is an ok prospect. They have 5 picks in the first two rounds that are heavy on D. They'll probably get another DMan or two.

 

[BBKers]

@bobbop I think the Rangers are fine with D prospects now. Hajek looks promising and to a lesser extent Lindgren looks like he could be an NHLer. K. Miller the sky is the limit for his potential. Lundkvist looks very good and no one talks about him ever. So that's a good start. Reannaunen (sp?) has sleeper potential, and then Keane. Gross is an ok prospect. They have 5 picks in the first two rounds that are heavy on D. They'll probably get another DMan or two.

You forgot Adam Fox and Yegor Rykov.

 

[HFsNumber1Heel]

You forgot Adam Fox and Yegor Rykov.

Yup totally forgot about Rykov. Fox....lololol not yet.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

Carolina is absolutely going to lose Fox for nothing

 

[Lindberg Cheese]

I will say that this is one of the more amazing things from the entire year. You just never give up on this. Like a woodpecker constantly pecking at the same spot, letting the noise drown out everything else.

Define amazing...

Which year? 2018, 2019 to date, or the last year form now?

Explain in detail your analogy using a wood pecker? Why not a beaver gnawing at wood or a jack hammer?

 

[RangerBoy]

Panarin's coach in Chicago going to the Panthers. Goalie Bob. Barkov is a stud.

 

[RangerBoy]

 

[True Blue]

Define amazing...

Amazing: causing great wonder or astonishment

Which year? 2018, 2019 to date, or the last year form now?

Both, 2018 and to-date in 2019.

Explain in detail your analogy using a wood pecker? Why not a beaver gnawing at wood or a jack hammer?

Ok, we can be beavers.

 

[Cag29]

I just don't get why people keep saying Tankathon doesn't work when it's been proven over and over that it does.

We're going to do this all over again next season anyway. Maybe a full season without Hayes, Zucc and Kreider will help us see the true way.

#middleground

It’s the only way to get impact talent at a controllable price. Without giving up half your team in trade.

 

[JohnC]

Them continuing to play him was one of this season’s biggest mysteries.

Did he practice once after the new year?

 

[LORDE]

We are trying something new...doing a rebuild instead of buying players.

We finished with more pts this year than last.

By different I mean picking in the top-2

Maybe next yr

 

[NernieBichols]

Lol what?

Parise was 1000000% on the level of Panarin when he signed, ditto Suter who is a legitimate top pair D.

That’s not true

 

[Matt4776]

That’s not true

In what way?

He has a higher career high in points than Panarin, scored 94 and 82 points in a lower scoring era than Panarin currently plays in, and was also 27 turning 28 for his first season with the Wild, all while playing better defense than Panarin.

Panarin drove possession a bit more, but it is clearly hindsight bias to say they aren't on the same level.

 

[E-Train]

Panarin's coach in Chicago going to the Panthers. Goalie Bob. Barkov is a stud.

100% Q, Panarin and Bob are all going to Sunrise. Panthers will be a force. In Rangers best interests.

 

[haohmaru]

I agree, which goes to my original point - Panarin wouldn't be signing here for less than double digits.

Not a point I've disputed. Saying he didn't take a discount (ie... could've gotten significantly more elsewhere), however, isn't accurate.

 

[TheTakedown]

I for one never saw all the hype behind Parise. There was never a point where I would compare him to Panarin.

Another issue is that the devils system helped those players become more than their collective sum. Clarkson got that crazy contract the year when Parise .Total joke

 

[Edge]

The point per game average for Parise and Panarin, in the three or four years prior to hitting free agency, we’re almost identical.

Parise has the slightly higher peak, Panarin was a little more stewdy over the same time period.

You could argue there were concerns about how Parise’s injury would impact his ability going forward, but you’d also have to take into account the belief that a change of scenery and a better environment was seen as a potential boost for him.

But, at the very least, they weren’t really viewed as being worlds apart.

 

[NernieBichols]

In what way?

He has a higher career high in points than Panarin, scored 94 and 82 points in a lower scoring era than Panarin currently plays in, and was also 27 turning 28 for his first season with the Wild, all while playing better defense than Panarin.

Panarin drove possession a bit more, but it is clearly hindsight bias to say they aren't on the same level.

I’m going based upon natural ability, where they are trending heading into UFA, mileage, health, etc...

Panarin’s a legit 1st line winger with low mileage and a skill-set that isn’t going anywhere.

That’s what makes me say it’s apples and oranges comparing those two guys. Radulov is a better example and he’s not a great one either

 

[Matt4776]

I’m going based upon natural ability, where they are trending heading into UFA, mileage, health, etc...

Panarin’s a legit 1st line winger with low mileage and a skill-set that isn’t going anywhere.

That’s what makes me say it’s apples and oranges comparing those two guys. Radulov is a better example and he’s not a great one either

Are you saying Parise is not a legit 1st line winger? If so, I truly can't take your opinion seriously.

EDIT: To be clear, I mean pre-UFA Parise.

 

[kovazub94]

100% Q, Panarin and Bob are all going to Sunrise. Panthers will be a force. In Rangers best interests.

In what way?