Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XXXVI

[GoAwayPanarin]

this might be a tough question to answer, but hoping someone can help out. I do not follow anything outside of NHL hockey and am not familiar with draft prospects. How does Kakko project coming out of the draft as these top forward coming out in the past few years? Is his potential higher or lower than the following players when they were coming out of the draft? Thank in advance.

1. MacKinnon
2 Barkov
3. Drouin
4. Reinhart
5. Draisaitl
6. Bennett
7. McDavid
8. Eichel
9. Strome (Dylan)
10. Matthews
11. Laine
12. Puljujarvi
13. Nico
14. Patrick
15. Svechnikov

These are all forwards I rember being very highly regarded going into the last 6 drafts.

Better than all of them except MacKinnon, McDavid, Eichel, Matthews and maybe Laine.

On par with Barkov and Draisaitl and perhaps Laine.

 

[True Blue]

Its pretty simple the NYR take Krieders potential per annual salary in a new deal and use it for breadman..so 7million towards breadmans 10million salary then you trade Kreider for RD or top 15 pick in this years draft plus extras. You replace our top left winger with a better left winger and strengthen a weakness for about 3 million more a year. That 3 million extra per year was payment for the assets you acquire from Kreider trade.

Leaving out the NMC/NTC is a point that cannot be forgotten about. With Panarin, you have no idea if 1) he can handle playing in NY 2) he is a leader 3) Can he perform with a (much) lesser supporting cast. This team is still not contending next year.

And he will take no less than $11m, not $10.

 

[apoptygma]

So many players having offensive careeer years this year. Lots of young forwards taking the next step. Players like Barkov, Hunberdeau, Lindholm, Monahan, Point, Zinbadejad.
The common deminator? All drafted between 2011 and 2014. Chytil and Andersson was drafted 2017, Kravtsov 2018. There still might be 3-6 years until our first high picks of our rebuild bloom fully.

We wont be a contender until the needed time has passed, putting a Panarin lipstick on our Staal-bear-pig defence wont make this pig of a team a beatifull cup contender.
Heck, even Eichel had his first ppg season in his D+4 season. Barkov had a gradual increase from his 24 point rookie season to this years 96 point. Mackinnon had some sub-par years after a nice 63 point rookie year.
McDavid might be the only player that have had a D+1 ppg in the NHL season since Crosby.

Kakko should absolutly be a offensive monster and a true star in his prime, but that prime is still several seasons away. The rebuild and restocking of assets will continue next season.

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

If we’re talking super aggressive (regardless of my personal opinions) you move Kreider and get that second home run swing - let’s say there is indeed a path that leads to Zegras.

Then you separately go out and pursue a guy like Trouba via trade.

Then you go out and make a hot pursuit of Panarin.

You lose Kreider, Skjei, and the quality of picks, and then a little more.

You add Kakko, Trouba, Panarin and Zegras.

Things still need work, but you’ve definitely picked a direction.

As I've said, I've wavered all year long on whether or not to sign Panarin, so I wouldn't be terribly upset at this. But at the end of the day, I think the 3 year gap between him and the next oldest "core" guy in an offseason with the team just coming off a season with the fewest ROW is the problem. Trouba still fits due to being 2.5 years younger. So, I do all of that sans the Panarin deal, then see what hay we can make the following offseason. (Hall?)

 

[True Blue]

The Lottery helps in many ways but it really shouldn't effect the Rangers plans THAT much this off-season.

Agreed with sentiment, not some of the pieces.

Yeah, the plans do not change that much. Gorton needs to figure out if Kreider is a part of the future. I also do not want kids playing on 4th line or in roles that they are not ready for. For argument's sake let's say that Kreider is not traded:

Kreider-ZBad-Buch
Howden - Chytil - Nametsnikov
Lemieux - Andersson-Strome
Smith - Nieves - xxxx

I do agree that I would look to sign a 4th liner that excels with standing up for his teammates. Brinkley appeared ok. But not sure he excels in that dept. I would also check in on Boyle as 4th line center. If Nametsnikov is traded, could slide Strome up and retain Vesey.

Am pretty sure that Shattenkirk, Staal and Smith are borderline unmoveable.

 

[Matt4776]

Agreed with sentiment, not some of the pieces.

Yeah, the plans do not change that much. Gorton needs to figure out if Kreider is a part of the future. I also do not want kids playing on 4th line or in roles that they are not ready for. For argument's sake let's say that Kreider is not traded:

Kreider-ZBad-Buch
Howden - Chytil - Nametsnikov
Lemieux - Andersson-Strome
Smith - Nieves - xxxx

I do agree that I would look to sign a 4th liner that excels with standing up for his teammates. Brinkley appeared ok. But not sure he excels in that dept. I would also check in on Boyle as 4th line center. If Nametsnikov is traded, could slide Strome up and retain Vesey.

Am pretty sure that Shattenkirk, Staal and Smith are borderline unmoveable.

You forgot Kakko.

 

[E-Train]

I can’t blame the posters pining for Panarin after last night. Add him to Kakko and Kravtsov and we’re much improved even with the questionable D. I just don’t think there’s much chance he’s going anywhere other than Sunrise.

 

[Kovalev27]

Again I said it earlier but a lot of these teams with one or two top end elite talents don’t have the depth around them. What we’ve done is accumulated so many first rounders that we will have a roster full of them. That’s 3 4 lines deep with first round talents. That’s how you build a champion.

Teams like buffalo just bottom out get one guy and done. We actually had desirable guys to move and accumulate first rounders and talents like Howden and DeAngelo to add that middle to late first round talent to surround guys like Mika and Kakko. This is going to be a lot of fun over the next few years.

 

[Vitto79]

Agreed with sentiment, not some of the pieces.

Yeah, the plans do not change that much. Gorton needs to figure out if Kreider is a part of the future. I also do not want kids playing on 4th line or in roles that they are not ready for. For argument's sake let's say that Kreider is not traded:

Kreider-ZBad-Buch
Howden - Chytil - Nametsnikov
Lemieux - Andersson-Strome
Smith - Nieves - xxxx

I do agree that I would look to sign a 4th liner that excels with standing up for his teammates. Brinkley appeared ok. But not sure he excels in that dept. I would also check in on Boyle as 4th line center. If Nametsnikov is traded, could slide Strome up and retain Vesey.

Am pretty sure that Shattenkirk, Staal and Smith are borderline unmoveable.

Perhaps a Finn 4th liner for Kakko?

2 yrs with adding more kids and then Staal, Shatty, Smith, Hank money is all off the books. Then sign a big UFA and resign RFA kids

 

[E-Train]

Perhaps a Finn 4th liner for Kakko?

There’s a pretty good one already in Hartford.

 

[True Blue]

The ironic thing is, if people here had their way and Gorton and co. purposely tanked the season instead of trying to win games at the end, we wouldn't be here making plans for Kakko or Hughes.

To be fair, I think that very few people advocated this.

 

[True Blue]

Staal needs to GTFO

Sure. So too does Shattenkirk and Smith. But how are you planning to do that?

 

[True Blue]

Excellent post

ODC's head cleared once he realized he could stop debating Byram being the first pick.

 

[Greg02]

Byram would cost us Zibanejad, blowing a hole down the middle. And who says Byram is a 1D? Most guys who go 4-6 dont come close to playing on the first pair.

Trade Kreider for a position that allows us to take a K-Andre-like prospect. Hopefully ADA, the new kid or one of the 2 first round defensemen last year develop into s first pair guy. Maybe use the Winnipeg pick on another high risk, high reward defenseman.

I think some combination of Skjei, Hajek, Rykov, Lindgren, Crawford, Keane, Lundkvist, Pionk will turn into very good bottom-4 in their prime. Then you hope ADA, K'Andre or one of this year's draftees can fill up the top pair. The hardest part is still ahead.

Hah– if you didn't notice, I have no clue what I'm talking about when it comes to the draft prospects and am subsisting off of a contact high from winning the draft lottery.

I think directionally it feels like there's opportunity and risk here. We have a bunch of high end offensive prospects such that within two to three years we should have a high octane and cheap offense. Paying a piece like Panarin now might make sense so it's a contract coming off the books by the time the kids need to be paid, whereas investing in a top free agent when the window is wide open will be more expensive and run further into the future. On top of that, between Shestyorkin and Georgiev there's a chance that we have the pieces on forward and in net to shoot for a cup sooner than I would have thought possible.

The D scares me though. There's a lot of pieces, but defensemen have a much longer learning curve. I'm excited about Miller, but it doesn't feel like we have enough bets on high end defensemen to make it work. Hence the Kreider + picks for Byram comment (despite not knowing if that's possible, or anything substantive about Byram besides what I've read on HFBoards). The sentiment is basically get the top defenseman now in the hope that he's a 1D in three years to strike if that window opens up.

Like I said, don't know anything, but that's the general thought process behind the exuberance.

 

[Ghost of jas]

Again I said it earlier but a lot of these teams with one or two top end elite talents don’t have the depth around them. What we’ve done is accumulated so many first rounders that we will have a roster full of them. That’s 3 4 lines deep with first round talents. That’s how you build a champion.

Teams like buffalo just bottom out get one guy and done. We actually had desirable guys to move and accumulate first rounders and talents like Howden and DeAngelo to add that middle to late first round talent to surround guys like Mika and Kakko. This is going to be a lot of fun over the next few years.

Adding potentially eleven 1st round picks in four years will do that for a franchise:

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

To be fair, I think that very few people advocated this.

Bruh, c'mon. Of course they were. Rip it down to the studs, they can't even tank correctly, what is Gorton doing, we need to bottom out. Not just here, Twitter too. This season was exhausting.

 

[SA16]

I can’t drop the notion of PK Subban.

Will be cheap due to cap hit. His contract runs out as Kakko, Kravy and co’s ELCs are done. If we want, we should be able to resign him by then. And vets that age don’t get paid like they used to, look at Bouwmester just resigning for like 3.5m per. It’s not a shortsighted addition, PK should have 5-6 more solid years in him easily. He is in great shape etc.

There is a heck of a difference for us to add a 3 year commitment compared to a 7 year commitment.

Subban can take the toughest minutes, PK, late game shifts and be the leader on our blueline. Assume a lot of pressure overall. Let Skjei, TDA, Hajak, KAndree and co grow into the league in more suited roles for them.

I am far from sold on that anyone would top an offer of like Pionk and a 2nd and a 3rd in 2020 for Subban. Dump Shatty. Get Adam Fox.

Skjei-Subban
Staal-TDA
Hajak-Fox

Smith as a 7th D/13th forward.

Subban is not going to be cheap to trade for. Any team with cap space for him can/would easily beat that offer which is basically a bunch of junk for Subban.

 

[Matt4776]

Bruh, c'mon. Of course they were. Rip it down to the studs, they can't even tank correctly, what is Gorton doing, we need to bottom out. Not just here, Twitter too. This season was exhausting.

Nobody blamed Gorton for anything.

People were frustrated when we would get out-shot 42-18, and steal a game in the shootout. There's a significant difference.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

Nobody blamed Gorton for anything.

People were frustrated when we would get out-shot 42-18, and steal a game in the shootout. There's a significant difference.

I don't agree but feel free to frame it however you want. I saw what I saw and it was really, really, lame. My point stands, if people here had their way, Kakko and Hughes would not be happening.

 

[duhmetreE]

I think Trouba has to be a target. Fills a major need

Rumblings that Subban might be available.. but $9M? Would be worth if Nashville ate a mill or 2

 

[True Blue]

And who says Byram is a 1D? Most guys who go 4-6 dont come close to playing on the first pair.

Trade Kreider for a position that allows us to take a K-Andre-like prospect. Hopefully ADA, the new kid or one of the 2 first round defensemen last year develop into s first pair guy. Maybe use the Winnipeg pick on another high risk, high reward defenseman.

Who says Byram if a 1D? Most experts.

You contradict yourself here you say "Most guys who go 4-6 dont come close to playing on the first pair." But, Miller at 22OA, will? Or saying this" or one of the 2 first round defensemen last year develop into s first pair guy". What are you saying? Only defensemen that go 1-3 get to play on top pair? Or that while you believe that those taken 4-6 do not, miraculously the ones the Rangers picked will?

 

[Matt4776]

I don't agree but feel free to frame it however you want. I saw what I saw and it was really, really, lame. My point stands, if people here had their way, Kakko and Hughes would not be happening.

This is a fundamental misunderstanding of statistics but okay.

 

[True Blue]

Bruh, c'mon. Of course they were. Rip it down to the studs, they can't even tank correctly, what is Gorton doing, we need to bottom out. Not just here, Twitter too. This season was exhausting.

I think that most that I read here were pretty level headed. The ones that weren't tend to scream the loudest.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

This is a fundamental misunderstanding of statistics but okay.

How so, please explain? If they ended up in a different spot, say where LA (2) or Buffalo (5) finished would they still be picking 2nd?

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

I think that most that I read here were pretty level headed. The ones that weren't tend to scream the loudest.

Fair enough.