Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XXXVI

[Trxjw]

Looking at teams in the top-8, where I'd like to be to add a center, I see two notable names: Edmonton and Buffalo. The proverbial Dante Hicks' of this draft in that "they're not even supposed to be here."

If you can get into the mid or early teens, I think either of those teams might be willing to trade back in order to add some NHL talent to their roster or, in Edmonton's case, clear some salary.

 

[NYR Viper]

The right move is still to trade Kreider. That hasn't changed. He's 27, to be 28 in 20 days, and will be 29 by the time his next contract starts. People are afraid of Panarin who is going to be 27 when his deal starts and is a superior player. Kreider had 52 points in 79 games this season. He doesn't have the excuse of not playing with good players as Zibanejad was close to a ppg.

Kreider, to me, is the last large piece to be moved. He should bring back a good young player/prospect + 1st +. That finishes off the rebuild.

Guys like Fast, Namestnikov and Vesey should also of course be dealt but we're talking smaller returns there.

Arizona. Buffalo. Florida. Carolina. Calgary. Nashville. There are teams out there who will be looking for depth scoring.

 

[True Blue]

You forgot Kakko.

No, I did not. I left him out as I do not see the need to rush him at the start of next year and thrust him into a role that he is not ready for. Let him develop.

 

[Matt4776]

How so, please explain? If they ended up in a different spot, say where LA (2) or Buffalo (5) finished would they still be picking 2nd?

Two parts.

1. We have no idea where we would pick if we placed anywhere else. Butterfly effect.etc.

2. You now have the benefit of hindsight. If someone offers you one free lottery ticket or ten free lottery tickets for a chance to win Mega Millions, which do you take? If the last winner won with only one lottery ticket entry, would you take the one lottery ticket? If you would, you don't know what you're doing.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

* you MUST fix this defense. 76/77/18/22/44 are all here next yr for sure. the others gone. add hajek and a potential return for kreider trade for a top 4 dman who can actually play defense. theres your next yr top 7 dmen. k'andre potentially the yr after. lundkqvist as well.

I feel like the best solution for this, right now is time.

 

[AIexisLafreniereNYR]

No, I did not. I left him out as I do not see the need to rush him at the start of next year and thrust him into a role that he is not ready for. Let him develop.

He literally tore apart the Finnish Elite League against grown men.. he will be in the lineup game 1 for the Rangers next season

 

[Beacon]

I'm confused, if most guys who go 4-6 don't come close to playing on the first pair how is picking someone even later going to fill that void?

It all depends on what you give up. Neither #5 nor #15 guarantees anything. #5 has higher odds than #15, but neither is a guarantee. It's one thing if for a chance we give up an impending UFA who will be in his 30s by the time Kakko, Kravtsov, Chytil, etc mature and Hank, Staal, Shatty and Smith leave the cap. It's another if we give up the only proven top-6 center we have who will still be in his prime when the window should/may open.

 

[True Blue]

I think Trouba has to be a target. Fills a major need

Rumblings that Subban might be available.. but $9M? Would be worth if Nashville ate a mill or 2

Big pass. A talented defenseman, sure. But cannot stay on the ice and would require a big pay day. Also, IMO, he is NOT ready to be THE man. He isn't that in Winnipeg and bringing him here and paying him to be something that he is not smells like Shattenkirk, but more years and more dollars.

 

[I Eat Crow]

Stay with the plan.

This is still a bottom five team even with Kakko or Hughes in the fold. Keep accumulating young assets and picks until next year's draft. Go for it after next season.

There are other wingers available in free agency that can provide veteran leadership for the young group. Trade Kreider and try to acquire another 1st this year or next.

 

[duhmetreE]

The only thing I'd trade Kreider for, is a Center in the top10 of the draft.

Who knows, they might try Kakko at Center.

 

[True Blue]

He literally tore apart the Finnish Elite League against grown men.. he will be in the lineup game 1 for the Rangers next season

I understand what he did. But he is 17 years old, playing against grown men in the NHL and living his first year in the US. Not something I am banking on. Let him marinate, and if he is ready, bring him up.

 

[LiveLongandProspal]

Kakko at 2
Moritz Seiden with the Jets pick

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

Two parts.

1. We have no idea where we would pick if we placed anywhere else. Butterfly effect.etc.

2. You now have the benefit of hindsight. If someone offers you one free lottery ticket or ten free lottery tickets for a chance to win Mega Millions, which do you take? If the last winner won with only one lottery ticket entry, would you take the one lottery ticket? If you would, you don't know what you're doing.

The benefit of hindsight says teams that finished worse than the Rangers did aren't getting either of the best players available. If the Rangers finished 5th instead of 6th, they probably don't either. I don't care about lottery tickets I care about them building a good hockey team. Just my opinion, but purposely tanking doesn't accomplish that.

 

[SA16]

I understand what he did. But he is 17 years old, playing against grown men in the NHL and living his first year in the US. Not something I am banking on. Let him marinate, and if he is ready, bring him up.

Over the last 10 drafts 8 forwards went 2nd overall. All 8 started in the NHL. 8 forwards went 1st overall. All 8 started in the NHL. You should bank on him playing Game 1.

 

[I Eat Crow]

I also get a sense that Howden or Andersson should move to LW this year. Simplify the game for them. Both were trying to do too much.

 

[Beacon]

Who says Byram if a 1D? Most experts.

Literally ZERO people who have any understanding of the draft would say that. He may have 1D potential, but the odds are way, way worse than 50-50 that he doesn't get there.

You contradict yourself here you say "Most guys who go 4-6 dont come close to playing on the first pair." But, Miller at 22OA, will?

Again, you make the same mistake between "will" and "may". It's not 100% or 0%. It is a spectrum. My point is that you draft enough guys whose upper end of the spectrum is a 1D, eventually someone gets there. We drafted/acquired Tyutin, MDZ, Sanguinetti, Novak, Kloucek, McDonaugh and others who had first pair potential. Eventually one of them struck gold. I'm advocating the same strategy.

The draft is a crapshoot. Some players have better odds than others, but there's never a guarantee the player becomes any good outside maybe the first or second pick.

 

[True Blue]

Over the last 10 drafts 8 forwards went 2nd overall. All 8 started in the NHL. 8 forwards went 1st overall. All 8 started in the NHL. You should bank on him playing Game 1.

Go ahead and bank. Banking on odds that tend not to be in your favor, that is not in my nature. Where the Rangers are, I would let him develop in another year.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

It all depends on what you give up. Neither #5 nor #15 guarantees anything. #5 has higher odds than #15, but neither is a guarantee. It's one thing if for a chance we give up an impending UFA who will be in his 30s by the time Kakko, Kravtsov, Chytil, etc mature and Hank, Staal, Shatty and Smith leave the cap. It's another if we give up the only proven top-6 center we have who will still be in his prime when the window should/may open.

So why am I trading the teams best LW (when I don't have to and where they are thinnest) for something that isn't at least close to guaranteed? Kreider for Trouba or someone like him, maybe. Kreider for the 15th pick in the draft, no thanks. Can we at least wait to see what his contract demands are before moving him? He's not even 28 years old yet. And who wants to give up Zibanejad?

 

[SA16]

Go ahead and bank. Banking on odds that tend not to be in your favor, that is not in my nature. Where the Rangers are, I would let him develop in another year.

I mean considering literally 100% of forwards taken 1st/2nd overall the last ten years played in the NHL immediately I'm pretty sure the odds are actually in my favor (*Sam Reinhart got 9 games).

Now the majority of them were NOT great right away. Mostly adequate depth scoring and some of them got played in very weird roles like Seguin and his 12 mins/game. But they all were NHL players.

 

[Matt4776]

Go ahead and bank. Banking on odds that tend not to be in your favor, that is not in my nature. Where the Rangers are, I would let him develop in another year.

What are you talking about odds not in our favor? As he just showed, the odds are very much in our favor.

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

Go ahead and bank. Banking on odds that tend not to be in your favor, that is not in my nature. Where the Rangers are, I would let him develop in another year.

He’ll be in the NHL, he won’t be a first liner though

 

[apoptygma]

Again I said it earlier but a lot of these teams with one or two top end elite talents don’t have the depth around them. What we’ve done is accumulated so many first rounders that we will have a roster full of them. That’s 3 4 lines deep with first round talents. That’s how you build a champion.

Teams like buffalo just bottom out get one guy and done. We actually had desirable guys to move and accumulate first rounders and talents like Howden and DeAngelo to add that middle to late first round talent to surround guys like Mika and Kakko. This is going to be a lot of fun over the next few years.

Its worse to start a rebuild to late then to early. Thankfully NYR have deep pockets and what looks like a owner that are willing to be patient. I doubt any other franchise have done a similar yard sale that we have been doing these 2 last seasons, and we are not out of stock yet. Every asset we sold gave us atleast 2 new ones. Some of those cheap scratch off tickets, but enough tickets and you will win something decent in the end. Our prospect/young asset depth is starting to get real dep, and yesterdays magic happening helps of putting those top assets in there aswell.

Comparing our sell off to the ones Buffalo, Leafs, Oilers etc have done the last year, we end up with more assets then several of them combined. Just the pure numbers should give us some sucess stories in the end. If we can get 40% of 1. and 2. rounders from 2017-2020 to be mainstay NHl players, and add 1-2 players from round 3-7 each year in the smae period that is a shitton of either a future core or moveable assets we can pool together to get that young budding star that is in a situation that dont work out. Would be great to be able in the 21-22 season as we are a young emerging team, missing say a good LW, we then trade a young middle 6 but with upside forward like Barron, a young nhl d-man like Ragnarsson and our own late 1. round pick in 2022 for that seasons "Seguin" player.

 

[Ghost of jas]

I feel like the best solution for this, right now is time.

But then the Rangers can’t ‘go all in’ next season.

 

[True Blue]

Literally ZERO people who have any understanding of the draft would say that. He may have 1D potential, but the odds are way, way worse than 50-50 that he doesn't get there.

The same can be said of anyone in any draft. All they have is potential. Even Hughes is nothing but potential right now. Literally ZERO people who have any understanding of the draft can possibly unequivocally state that Hughes WILL be a franchise top line center. All they can say is that he has a good chance. Ditto Byram.

Again, you make the same mistake between "will" and "may". It's not 100% or 0%. It is a spectrum. My point is that you draft enough guys whose upper end of the spectrum is a 1D, eventually someone gets there. We drafted/acquired Tyutin, MDZ, Sanguinetti, Novak, Kloucek, McDonaugh and others who had first pair potential. Eventually one of them struck gold. I'm advocating the same strategy.

But by your own logic, barely any defensemen who get drafted 4-6 play on the top pairing. By that logic, no matter how many defensive prospects you draft, unless you are taking them 1-3, will virtually never play on top pair.

The draft is a crapshoot. Some players have better odds than others, but there's never a guarantee the player becomes any good outside maybe the first or second pick.

How much do I detest this argument? Let me count the ways. The draft is absolutely NOT a crapshoot. If it were, then why bother having scouts? Why not just read a bit about some players and make your decisions from there? The higher the pick, the greater likelihood that said prospects develops into a good NHL player. Of course there are no guarantees, but good scouting tends to cut through the crapshoot BS. That and development.

 

[offdacrossbar]

Whoa.....all it took was the Rangers winning the lottery and we suddenly start to agree.....on some things

whoa easy there big guy.

pump the brakes a little bit