Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XXXVI

[GoAwayPanarin]

I have, but I don't see people saying to go all-in. I see people saying that we should accelerate the rebuild by adding an elite UFA and maybe a trade for a defenseman.

Landing a top 2 pick certainly does change things a bit, but I can't look at the defense and say "hey, thats a pretty simple fix." Thats going to take a while, and as much as I'd love to see guys like Miller step in and kill it right away, it's almost certainly going to take him years to get to where I hope he can get to, if he can get there at all.

OTOH, I've long said that this team really needs Zibanejad to be their 3rd or 4th best forward in order to really move this thing ahead. Panarin and Kakko (eventually) would seemingly push him to #3 with Kravstov having an outside shot at exceeding him as well (unless there is another level to Zibanejad's game, in which case this becomes moot.)

But it still just doesn't line up for me.

 

[Kovalev27]

I have, but I don't see people saying to go all-in. I see people saying that we should accelerate the rebuild by adding an elite UFA and maybe a trade for a defenseman.

That’s my idea of all in

 

[Kovalev27]

Putting actual talent around Mika takes him to another level. I’m certain

 

[Beacon]

#1 - So, you aren't allowed to have anyone over the age of 30 on a Cup contending roster? Does Pittsburgh and Washington know this?

Even if everything breaks wonderfully for us, by the time the kids start reaching their prime around 23-25 years of age, Kreider will be in his mid-30s, at the tail end of his UFA contract, doing his best impression of Marc Staal, with everyone here screaming to buy him out and accept the cap hit.

At best, Kreider will be 33-40 years old during our window... assuming everything works out well and Kakko, Chytil, Kravtsov, Lias, K'Andre don't go the way of Brendl, Lundmark, Cherneski, Malhotra and Jeff Brown. [Our first rounders 1996-1999, three of whom were top-10.]

 

[DanielBrassard]

Landing a top 2 pick certainly does change things a bit, but I can't look at the defense and say "hey, thats a pretty simple fix." Thats going to take a while, and as much as I'd love to see guys like Miller step in and kill it right away, it's almost certainly going to take him years to get to where I hope he can get to, if he can get there at all.

OTOH, I've long said that this team really needs Zibanejad to be their 3rd or 4th best forward in order to really move this thing ahead. Panarin and Kakko (eventually) would seemingly push him to #3 with Kravstov having an outside shot at exceeding him as well (unless there is another level to Zibanejad's game, in which case this becomes moot.)

But it still just doesn't line up for me.

I guess I just have a different view of things, a different philosophy. I don't know if we will be a contender even if we sign Panarin but I think the defense is adequate enough as long as Staal and Pionk are not in the lineup or at the minimum getting 3rd pairing minutes. What is a bigger factor is having a loaded forward group that can attack in many avenues and can keep the pressure on the other team. Adding Panarin/Kakko/Kravtsov could really push this team to where it needs to be. Goaltending is a question mark but I have faith that Hank and Geo/Shesterkin to be above average atleast. The defense will come along with the prospects we have and hopefully Gorton can bring in someone that can be a top-pairing level defenseman, but we can live with an adequate defense which I think we have.

 

[DanielBrassard]

That’s my idea of all in

I suppose we have different definitions of that phrase then.

 

[Matt4776]

So it's ok to pay a 30 year old millions of dollars in three years when they are ready to compete instead of just paying the ****ing 28 year old guy already on your roster who's really very good at hockey AND who will be 31 in three years???? C'mon man. What is this ****?

The 28 year old guy has some injury concerns, plays a very heavy north-south game, and there is absolutely no guarantee he will be the same player at 31, never-mind 33+ when this team is a serious SCF contender (if all breaks right).

It's natural to develop an affinity for home grown guys. Kreider is my favorite Ranger. As you can see by my join date, Kreider was the first Rangers 1st rounder I witnessed as a die-hard fan. First 1st rounder I witnessed as a fan that followed the prospects of the hockey world. I own his home and away jersey.

But, we have to be realistic. If Kreider was a non-Ranger UFA, would you sign him to a 7x7 contract this offseason given the state of the team? I wouldn't. And, we have a chance to add a mid-1st round pick (not a deadline first which often ends up being in the mid-high 20s) for him.

 

[Inferno]

Better than all of them except MacKinnon, McDavid, Eichel, Matthews and maybe Laine.

On par with Barkov and Draisaitl and perhaps Laine.

Laine is a crap player apart from his all world shot. I swear I basically never even notice he's on the ice until he shoots the puck. .. he's basically as 1 dimensional as they come.

 

[Cag29]

Landing a top 2 pick certainly does change things a bit, but I can't look at the defense and say "hey, thats a pretty simple fix." Thats going to take a while, and as much as I'd love to see guys like Miller step in and kill it right away, it's almost certainly going to take him years to get to where I hope he can get to, if he can get there at all.

OTOH, I've long said that this team really needs Zibanejad to be their 3rd or 4th best forward in order to really move this thing ahead. Panarin and Kakko (eventually) would seemingly push him to #3 with Kravstov having an outside shot at exceeding him as well (unless there is another level to Zibanejad's game, in which case this becomes moot.)

But it still just doesn't line up for me.

But we are getting closer. Still have the rest of this draft and 2020.

 

[Cag29]

Building these lines is tough. Lots of ideal RWs and no true 2C.

I think we get Panarin and Fox.

Kreider - Zibanejad - Buchnevich
Panarin - Chytil - Kakko
Namestnikov - Howden - Kravtsov
Lemieux - Strome - Fast
Andersson

Skjei - DeAngelo
Rykov - Fox
Hajek - Shattenkirk
Claesson
Pionk

Lundqvist
Georgiev/Shestyorkin

Vesey traded
Nieves clears
Smith clears
Staal clears...

Lindgren, Keane, and Barron are the potential risers out of the AHL

Miller and Lundqvist rykov reuannen.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

Even if everything breaks wonderfully for us, by the time the kids start reaching their prime around 23-25 years of age, Kreider will be in his mid-30s, at the tail end of his UFA contract, doing his best impression of Marc Staal, with everyone here screaming to buy him out and accept the cap hit.

At best, Kreider will be 33-40 years old during our window... assuming everything works out well and Kakko, Chytil, Kravtsov, Lias, K'Andre don't go the way of Brendl, Lundmark, Cherneski, Malhotra and Jeff Brown.

40??? Dude! Their window isn't opening for 6 years? I'm sorry, I don't buy that. I mean, if that's the case might as well trade Zib and Buch, no?

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Laine is a crap player apart from his all world shot. I swear I basically never even notice he's on the ice until he shoots the puck. .. he's basically as 1 dimensional as they come.

Yeah but he's really, really good at that one thing.

I'd kill to have a one dimensional player of that ability right now. If we're missing anything upfront, it's that.

 

[Matt4776]

40??? Dude! Their window isn't opening for 6 years? I'm sorry, I don't buy that. I mean, if that's the case might as well trade Zib and Buch, no?

Can you give an example of a team who won the cup when their best players were aged 18-21?

 

[NYR Viper]

Yeah but he's really, really good at that one thing.

I'd kill to have a one dimensional player of that ability right now. If we're missing anything upfront, it's that.

I'd rather just sign Panarin

 

[DanielBrassard]

Can you give an example of a team who won the cup when their best players were aged 18-21?

Pittsburgh/Chicago

 

[Off Sides]

Everything that comes out of this rebuild is going to get more and more cap expensive over a short span of years.

The better the rebuild goes, the more expensive some of that will become.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I'd rather just sign Panarin

I'm not advocating trading for Laine. Just saying that kind of player is something we're lacking.

 

[Beacon]

40??? Dude! Their window isn't opening for 6 years? I'm sorry, I don't buy that. I mean, if that's the case might as well trade Zib and Buch, no?

I'm assuming the Cup window isnt 1 year, but 5-7. I'm also assuming our prospects start their prime at the usual age of 23-25, and not as teenagers. I mean, the argument for signing Kreider and Panarin is not merely that all our prospects hit their ceiling, but they will all do it before they can legally buy beer. Good luck with that.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

The 28 year old guy has some injury concerns, plays a very heavy north-south game, and there is absolutely no guarantee he will be the same player at 31, never-mind 33+ when this team is a serious SCF contender (if all breaks right).

It's natural to develop an affinity for home grown guys. Kreider is my favorite Ranger. As you can see by my join date, Kreider was the first Rangers 1st rounder I witnessed as a die-hard fan. First 1st rounder I witnessed as a fan that followed the prospects of the hockey world. I own his home and away jersey.

But, we have to be realistic. If Kreider was a non-Ranger UFA, would you sign him to a 7x7 contract this offseason given the state of the team? I wouldn't. And, we have a chance to add a mid-1st round pick (not a deadline first which often ends up being in the mid-high 20s) for him.

It's not an affinity. He's a really good hockey player that won't cost a lot to keep (unless you know something no one else knows). I give him 7X6 years tomorrow. Don't even hesitate unless you can move him for help on the blue line. And by help I mean an established NHL player. Not draft picks, not reclamation projects, not "could bes" He has a tremendous amount of value to this team and will continue to do so for the life of his contract. You need veterans. He's a bonafide top line LW in this league. You pay to keep your best players.

 

[DanielBrassard]

I'm assuming the Cup window isnt 1 year, but 5-7. I'm also assuming our prospects start their prime at the usual age of 23-25, and not as teenagers. I mean, the argument for signing Kreider and Panarin is not merely that all our prospects hit their ceiling, but they will all do it before they can legally buy beer. Good luck with that.

Players hit their peaks at 23-25 on average, that's not when their primes begin.

 

[Ghost of jas]

I'd rather just sign Panarin

I’d rather not do either. Not yet at least on Laine. I really do not want to rush this process.

 

[NYR Viper]

It's not an affinity. He's a really good hockey player that won't cost a lot to keep (unless you know something no one else knows). I give him 7X6 years tomorrow. Don't even hesitate unless you can move him for help on the blue line. And by help I mean an established NHL player. Not draft picks, not reclamation projects, not "could bes" He has a tremendous amount of value to this team and will continue to do so for the life of his contract. You need veterans. He's a bonafide top line LW in this league. You pay to keep your best players.

He had 52 points this season while playing with a close to ppg center. He's a good player. He's not someone I'm overly comfortable paying from age 29-36

 

[CommaSynapse]

I'm happy as hell to get Hughes or Kakko. Either would be a huge get for our forward depth and our rebuild, though the benefit of having a top C is without question.

At best, we have 2 extra swings in the first along with the WPG pick. Worst-case, we get two extra swings in the second.

Things just got a lot brighter.

 

[DanielBrassard]

Beginning to agree on Kreider. I love him and he's just fantastic at driving the play up ice, but unless he's willing to take 4-5 years I think moving him is the right move. So torn.

 

[Ghost of jas]

Beginning to agree on Kreider. I love him and he's just fantastic at driving the play up ice, but unless he's willing to take 4-5 years I think moving him is the right move. So torn.

Up until his most recent injury, I was firmly in the ‘don’t trade’ group. Now, I’d like to re-sign him, but won’t be shocked to see him get dealt. I just want the situation resolved by the draft.