Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XXXIX

[Off Sides]

The alternate logic is they added that condition because they have zero desire to re-sign him yet it let them get away with offering less in guarantees. We will see which is the case. Trading conditional picks based on whether or not a player re-signs should not be allowed by the CBA for exactly that reason.

If there was a more in guarantees offer, you don't think Gorton would have taken or pushed for that?

Seems more to me that the guaranteed 2nd and 3rd was the best offer, him finding conditionals beyond that were based on Dallas thinking if they made the 3rd round or extended Zucc they must be happy enough with the return to give up the picks.

 

[Greg02]

I'm not saying to be generous. But I am also practical. I think EP + 40th overall is actually a big win for us. I wouldn't make the trade simply because the child in me wants to see our team pick 2nd. I want to see the Rangers go up there and pick second overall. (that is intentionally repetitive)

I mean, isn't this the exact point the author is making? Even when you're winning the trade, you wouldn't do it. It seems like the point is the only way the Rangers trade 2OA is a highway robbery where the other team obviously wouldn't do it.

 

[SA16]

If there was a more in guarantees offer, you don't think Gorton would have taken or pushed for that?

Seems more to me that the guaranteed 2nd and 3rd was the best offer, him finding conditionals beyond that were based on Dallas thinking if they made the 3rd round or extended Zucc they must be happy enough with the return to give up the picks.

I didn't say there was an offer with more guarantees.

I said that 2+3 (where 3 can become 1 if he re-signs) appears to be more valuable than 2+3 (with no conditions) but is actually completely identical if the GM makes the offer knowing that he is not going to make a contract offer to keep the play. Given that that is the case you might as well always offer these type of conditions when trading for rentals that you don't want to keep longterm since it will reduce what you will actually end up trading. Perhaps without that condition the deal would have been a 2+2 or 2+3+5 but it wouldn't just be a 2+3.

 

[Thirty One]

If there was a more in guarantees offer, you don't think Gorton would have taken or pushed for that?

Seems more to me that the guaranteed 2nd and 3rd was the best offer, him finding conditionals beyond that were based on Dallas thinking if they made the 3rd round or extended Zucc they must be happy enough with the return to give up the picks.

No, I doubt that a 2nd and a 3rd was the most guaranteed he could get.

 

[bobbop]

Looking back on the last few Stanley Cup Champions, there certainly is a measure of luck involved. Ron Ryan, then President of the Flyers told me how much he regretted trading Patrick Sharp to the Blackhawks for next to nothing. That turned out pretty good for Chicago. The Kings picked up Justin Williams for Patrick O’Sullivan. And on and on.

Perhaps this trade deadline and draft will be forever looked upon as our stroke of good luck.

 

[Off Sides]

No, I doubt that a 2nd and a 3rd was the most guaranteed he could get.

I'm not so sure, the market for sellers of rentals was not all that great and Dallas was not even in firm playoff position at the time.

I didn't say there was an offer with more guarantees.

I said that 2+3 (where 3 can become 1 if he re-signs) appears to be more valuable than 2+3 (with no conditions) but is actually completely identical if the GM makes the offer knowing that he is not going to make a contract offer to keep the play. Given that that is the case you might as well always offer these type of conditions when trading for rentals that you don't want to keep longterm since it will reduce what you will actually end up trading. Perhaps without that condition the deal would have been a 2+2 or 2+3+5 but it wouldn't just be a 2+3.

I understand your point about how that could be abused, yet I'm not too sure Gorton just fell for it without thinking there was a pretty good chance Dallas wanted to extend Zucc.

 

[Gardner McKay]

I mean, isn't this the exact point the author is making? Even when you're winning the trade, you wouldn't do it. It seems like the point is the only way the Rangers trade 2OA is a highway robbery where the other team obviously wouldn't do it.

I'm talking about me as a fan. If I were the GM of the Rangers, I would strongly consider it. Mystery box scenario IMO.

 

[LORDE]

The Point sheet is only given after the Rangers sign Karlsson & Panarin and trade for Trouba. Maybe resign Hayes. But that may be a bit much and not realistic.

Just threw up in my mouth... standby

 

[bl02]

Not only that, they have some good up and coming players. I don't think they end up in the lottery next year.

I have not seen much of Dallas this past season but the playoffs,

Heiskanen is in my opinion going to be maybe even elite.

Lindell, Hintz, Dickinson seem to be coming around too.

He will be 100 percent! I thought Thomas Chabot was a real good young dman (and he is). Heiskanen not only has tremendous potential but he was already the best defenseman on the ice between Nashville and Dallas.

 

[Edge]

I think Gorton could win the cup and we'd still be talking about how abused he apparently is.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

He will be 100 percent! I thought Thomas Chabot was a real good young dman (and he is). Heiskanen not only has tremendous potential but he was already the best defenseman on the ice between Nashville and Dallas.

We desperately need a player like him on our back end in our system.

 

[duhmetreE]

We desperately need a player like him on our back end in our system.

it costs a top pick or a bad GM to trade with

 

[bl02]

We desperately need a player like him on our back end in our system.

First name Starts with a K...Last name ends with an R
He won't be at that level but potential is there to be a top pairing LHD.

 

[bl02]

it costs a top pick or a bad GM to trade with

Yeah and right now we will be spending our top pick on Kaako. If we get another top 5 next year I'm guessing another top center/wing.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

it costs a top pick or a bad GM to trade with

Or just be bad and we can draft one like him ourselves.

 

[duhmetreE]

Or just be bad and we can draft one like him ourselves. Pretty simple.

So simple. I cant understand why other teams haven't thought of this

 

[Leetch3]

Or just be bad and we can draft one like him ourselves.

i think thats what he meant by costing a top pick

 

[Beacon]

I too do not understand the long term expensive UFA ideas... Signing one to try to put an established team over the top and expecting the back end of that contract to suck, that I can understand even if I think that too is a questionable idea. Signing one to try to improve a rebuilding team who's best prospects were just drafted or have not even been drafted yet, I really don't understand that one...

Funny enough, we didn't even draft our best prospect yet. Not for another 2 months.

 

[wafflepadsave]

Wondering if Arizona has an interest in Kreider for the 14th?

 

[wafflepadsave]

I am reading an article in The Athletic regarding Nashville.

David Poile gave Kyle Turris a 6 year contract worth $36M. Just one season into the contract, that is a bad contract. Turris turns 30 this August.



Poile gave Ryan Ellis a 7 year contract worth $50M last summer. Turris turned 28 earlier this year.



The Predators had their chance and blew it. Now it's time...

Ellis wasn't very good in the Dallas series.

Nashville has him under contract for the next 7 years.

You can sit there and mock me but go look at the numerous players under awful contracts in the their late 20's/early 30's. Those teams are regretting those contracts.

James Neal in Calgary.

The Rangers have their share of mistakes too.

Potential turnover in Nashville this summer. Centers were underwhelming as was subban.

 

[Thirty One]

Wondering if Arizona has an interest in Kreider for the 14th?

Think they would want someone with term if they were giving up that pick.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Wondering if Arizona has an interest in Kreider for the 14th?

Sounds like it's going to go for Kessel.

Perhaps if that falls through.

 

[Ghost of jas]

Sounds like it's going to go for Kessel.

Perhaps if that falls through.

Rob Rossi, Pens beat writer for the Athletic, was just on NHL Network Radio and thought Kessel to AZ would be more of a salary dump, maybe a conditional pick and a decent prospect, but the full salary going out. I know beat writers aren’t the best with trade speculation, (hi, Larry!), but, maybe the cost won’t be the 14OA.

 

[Thirty One]

Sounds like it's going to go for Kessel.

Perhaps if that falls through.

Think he okays a trade to Arizona?

 

[TheBloodyNine]

Also, for what it’s worth, reading Trouba’s quotes today, he seems very non-committal to Winnipeg.