Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XXXIX

[Anthony5967]

Payback for the MSL robbery.

 

[Gardner McKay]

I sometimes wonder where folks on here get their absurd trade proposals from. I read this little gem from blueshirtbanter today on what it would cost to acquire the 2nd overall pick and now I understand.

Blueshirt Banter

From the Vancouver hypothetical above? I think it would have to be 10th overall, 40th overall and/or a 2020 first, and one of Elias Pettersson or Brock Boeser.

 

[duhmetreE]

I sometimes wonder where folks on here get their absurd trade proposals from. I read this little gem from blueshirtbanter today on what it would cost to acquire the 2nd overall pick and now I understand.

Blueshirt Banter

There's a better chance we trade for Q.Hughes and draft J.Hughes than that.

 

[Paulie Walnutz]

How ironic, this past season was Ryan Ellis' worst season in his career in CF%rel. u look like an idiot when you post something like this.

He’s still got 7 years to turn it around, don’t worry!

 

[Gardner McKay]

There's a better chance we trade for Q.Hughes and draft J.Hughes than that.

2nd overall (Kakko) for Petterson is a mystery box scenario in itself. Adding the 10th overall and a 2020 1st rounder or 40th overall on top?

Bernmeister's craziest proposal in HF history has a better shot of happening than that deal.

Maybe. MAYBE. Vancouver is willing to do Petterson + 40th overall. I think that is actually a good enough deal that JG accepts. Adding in 10th? Double you tee eff.

 

[Beacon]

i agree with the impatience but to be fair that is literally what this thread is for...talking about waiting for key prospects is discussed in the threads dedicated to those prospects

This thread is probably the least bad here in terms of patience and in general probably made of the most knowledgeable fans here. I was more talking about the general population that dominates the roster building thread which has nothing but "which UFA do we get".

 

[DutchShamrock]

Payback for the MSL robbery.

Dallas fleeced TB for Brad Richards, we get raked over the coals for MSL, we double down on the 1sts for Zucc. The long con.

 

[duhmetreE]

This thread is probably the least bad here in terms of patience and in general probably made of the most knowledgeable fans here. I was more talking about the general population that dominates the roster building thread which has nothing but "which UFA do we get".

 

[Thirty One]

I just read through the first few pages of reactions in the Zucc trade to remind myself how hilarious that two months later the conversation has turned to "could it be two firsts?"

 

[DutchShamrock]

2nd overall (Kakko) for Petterson is a mystery box scenario in itself. Adding the 10th overall and a 2020 1st rounder or 40th overall on top?

Bernmeister's craziest proposal in HF history has a better shot of happening than that deal.

Maybe. MAYBE. Vancouver is willing to do Petterson + 40th overall. I think that is actually a good enough deal that JG accepts. Adding in 10th? Double you tee eff.

It may have zero chance of happening but that should be the ask. A franchise center with 3 years of ELC for the winger Pettersson with one more at ELC and he has gotten dinged a few times. Little man has done a fantastic job of producing in this league and answered many of the size questions but he has missed time from getting banged around.

Look, EP for Hughes is great value. But I'd be pissed if Gorton didn't take Vancouver to the cleaners. We won the lottery, but its no time to be generous to the bad luck nucks.

 

[Thirty One]

It may have zero chance of happening but that should be the ask. A franchise center with 3 years of ELC for the winger Pettersson with one more at ELC and he has gotten dinged a few times. Little man has done a fantastic job of producing in this league and answered many of the size questions but he has missed time from getting banged around.

Look, EP for Hughes is great value. But I'd be pissed if Gorton didn't take Vancouver to the cleaners. We won the lottery, but its no time to be generous to the bad luck nucks.

Petterson has two years of ELC left, and he played center this season.

 

[SA16]

I'd think if Dallas were so hung up on that 2020 1st they would not have agreed to the condition in the first place.

The alternate logic is they added that condition because they have zero desire to re-sign him yet it let them get away with offering less in guarantees. We will see which is the case. Trading conditional picks based on whether or not a player re-signs should not be allowed by the CBA for exactly that reason.

 

[LORDE]

This team is lurking in the weeds, with all of these picks, to offer-sheet Point. I see it coming.

f*** no

 

[Off Sides]

This thread is probably the least bad here in terms of patience and in general probably made of the most knowledgeable fans here. I was more talking about the general population that dominates the roster building thread which has nothing but "which UFA do we get".

I too do not understand the long term expensive UFA ideas, I mean, I get the wanting to try to improve the team and stuff, yet in it's essences a UFA contract like that is paying the most that player will ever receive and the team doing so has a pretty decent chance of not even getting many of that players best years. Plus there is likely a clause involved on top of all that.

Signing one to try to put an established team over the top and expecting the back end of that contract to suck, that I can understand even if I think that too is a questionable idea.

Signing one to try to improve a rebuilding team who's best prospects were just drafted or have not even been drafted yet, I really don't understand that one.

I get trying to take advantage of their entry level contracts cap hits, yet I think it should be more about trying to take advantage of their 2nd contracts if they are long term, bridges and contract beyond bridge.

If any of these or multiples of these prospects get huge 2nd contracts that is probably a good thing. Sure they may have to make some choices at that point but they'll know what they have and what they still need. If they do it right they will even still have entry levels coming up behind who take over for the more expensive outgoing. That too should be considered utilizing entry level cap hits.

Rangers don't even know what's up with their goalie situation, they have like 3 defender contracts which are not anywhere near ideal, they have no idea which prospects do what or do not. How anyone can try to anticipate what is going to come out of all that... I don't know.

 

[Gardner McKay]

It may have zero chance of happening but that should be the ask. A franchise center with 3 years of ELC for the winger Pettersson with one more at ELC and he has gotten dinged a few times. Little man has done a fantastic job of producing in this league and answered many of the size questions but he has missed time from getting banged around.

Look, EP for Hughes is great value. But I'd be pissed if Gorton didn't take Vancouver to the cleaners. We won the lottery, but its no time to be generous to the bad luck nucks.

I'm not saying to be generous. But I am also practical. I think EP + 40th overall is actually a big win for us. I wouldn't make the trade simply because the child in me wants to see our team pick 2nd. I want to see the Rangers go up there and pick second overall. (that is intentionally repetitive)

 

[bobbop]

With this scenario--essentially Dallas gives up two 1st round picks in successive years for a 32 year old second line wing for how much $'s and at how long a term? Great for us if all that happens but it doesn't make a lot of sense to me. If anyone were to have said to me at the deadline that Zuccarello was going to bring back two 1st round picks--I would have said to them GTFO!

It’s funny to think how unimpressive MZA was early in the year and then he turns it on and plays the best hockey of his career. One first would be a home run...two firsts? Inconceivable!

 

[DutchShamrock]

Petterson has two years of ELC left, and he played center this season.

Holy crap, this is a long season. I feel like the NHL has been raving about him for 2 seasons. Good points.

 

[eco's bones]

Everyone has guys get injured, we just dont care about other teams' prospects. Philly gave up a ton (Forsberg was only a small part of the package) for Lindros and he turned out to have genetic concussion problems. Isles drafted his brother Brett at 9 overall and he retired at the age of 19.

It happens. And when we project our prospects, we should project that some will be injured.

The reason that it seems to hit the Rangers worse is that we never rebuild properly because fans here are impatient. 14 months since the start of the rebuilding, the only discussion in the roster building thread is which UFA do we sign or trade for.

Not only do you need to plug in all holes on paper, you need redundancy because of busts and injuries. You need to have Sanguinetti, Del Zotto and McDonaugh (who all were first round picks with first pair potential) just to get 1 of them to be good. But we here project every prospect to hit his ceiling and never get injured, and when it doesn't happen, we look in amazement with tears in our eyes, "but how could this bad luck happen to us?"

'Seems' is a substitute for 'is' to some people. The Rangers have had some really bad luck over the years--Cherneski's knee, Blackburn's shouder, Cherepanov's dying. And we had guys who didn't turn out well--Brendl couldn't stay away from hot dogs and donuts. Lundmark who some thought might be the best player out of his draft--lost his edge. Malhotra was kind of a self inflicted wound of being a pawn in a battle between a GM and a coach and trying to rush him into the NHL before he was ready. McIlrath arguably belongs with the first group of Cherneski and Blackburn. I don't know what happened to Sanguinetti--he started off well in his first years in the AHL--lost a competition between him and Del Zotto and just gave up. Then there was Jessiman--another reach of a pick who f***ed up his ankle pretty bad.

But most teams have draft horror stories and there are a lot of different blueprints for how to successfully build a team. No blueprint is the same but you're not going to get anywhere with just kids and throwing them at a wall to see who or what is going to stick. You need a foundation and an environment in which your kids can succeed. Watching some total rebuilds like Buffalo or Edmonton--they give the team to Hall to lead--then McDavid and great, great players but way too much onus on them to carry the entire team and I think it's the same that's going on in Buffalo with too much expected from Eichel and Dahlin. For me Panarin makes players around him better--so will Zibanejad but Mika on his own (Henrik's still here but it ain't really his team anymore) is not enough.

 

[Irishguy42]

I sometimes wonder where folks on here get their absurd trade proposals from. I read this little gem from blueshirtbanter today on what it would cost to acquire the 2nd overall pick and now I understand.

Blueshirt Banter

FWIW....

 

[FireGerardGallant]

Trading the 2nd oa pick would be extremely dumb, please don't

 

[DutchShamrock]

I'm not saying to be generous. But I am also practical. I think EP + 40th overall is actually a big win for us. I wouldn't make the trade simply because the child in me wants to see our team pick 2nd. I want to see the Rangers go up there and pick second overall. (that is intentionally repetitive)

I feel the same. I wouldn't consider a move unless it was EP and 10 OA. Its obscene but I'd need to be forced from #2.

 

[Gardner McKay]

FWIW....

 

[True Blue]

**** no

The Point sheet is only given after the Rangers sign Karlsson & Panarin and trade for Trouba. Maybe resign Hayes. But that may be a bit much and not realistic.

 

[eco's bones]

It’s funny to think how unimpressive MZA was early in the year and then he turns it on and plays the best hockey of his career. One first would be a home run...two firsts? Inconceivable!

Mark Stone considered by practically everybody to be the best player available brought back Brannstrom, a 2nd and Oscar Lindberg. That's really not much better than what the Rangers might get here for Zucc. Brannstrom should turn out great but the 2nd (who knows?) and Lindberg is a bottom 6 forward. If Dallas signs Zuccarello and has a similar season or even misses the playoffs that pick next year could turn out even better for us. Dallas is hot now but even with Zuccarello they're not like the greatest team in the world.

 

[Lone Ranger]

Counter-argument: if they win the next round, one pick is already a sunk cost (and late in the round as well); they've found a guy who works well with their current squad; and is a fan-favorite. Do you let the cost of one more 1st round pick prevent you from re-signing that guy and (hopefully) going on another deep run next year? (And if so, how do you justify that to the average fan?)

Exactly, and even if either condition isn't met, they still owe us their second round pick this year, and a third next year. So, meeting the conditions only means the difference between those picks and the two firsts, which is a great deal I'll admit, but it does mitigate Dallas's costs to a degree.