Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XXXIX

[Draft Guru]

Gaining that Dallas first round pick would give us so many different options and even more ammunition at the draft.

Looking at the chart from @Amazing Kreiderman, the Ducks have moved down 5 times in the last 12 seasons. Do they trade #9 to us for 19/28/37? Do we make that trade if Zegras is there and we are all in on him? Does Buffalo or Edmonton take that same offer? As @SA16 pointed out, no team has had that much ammo to make a move that high up with only picks. Immediate picks.

If we don't get into the top 10, I definitely see us using 19/28/37/58 to move up twice. 19+37 for 12, 28+58 for 24, 19+58 for 15, 28+37 for 21, etc.

So many options, and these don't even include any potential deals with roster players. I think the NYR brass is going to be swinging for the fences. This draft is going to be fascinating.

 

[Edge]

I'm good with the extreme case

Yet I'm not entirely convinced it has to be a top 10 pick, depends on how the draft breaks, I could see someone they have ranked in their top 10 still very much being there at 11-15 or so and someone(s) they have ranked in that mid teen spot(s) being there in the late teens. Using Button, if Boldy, Broberg, Soderstrom, Krebs, Knight, Lavoie go up, it could mean Zegras is there at 12, Newhook and Caufield past #15

Not that I think Button has it right, yet if so I'm not passing up on that sort of opportunity if I'm the Rangers if deals can be made.

It's so incredibly hard to make predictions at this point because of the variables, but you're 100 percent correct.

And how does a scenario look where the Rangers receive the 14th in a Kreider trade, and maybe only have to slide up two spots for Zegras? Say, the 58th pick?

And how does that look if you still have the 19th pick and 28th pick in the fold? Suddenly you have a delightful combination of quality and quantity.

Or how does it look if you're sitting at 14, take Newhook, still have 19, 28 and 37 and can land Fox for 58?

There's a plethora of different, attractive scenarios.

 

[Draft Guru]

What a horrid draft, these people should never work in hockey again. The brendl pick was fine, he was close to 2pts per game in his first 2 years of the WHL. He got fat and threw it all away.

That whole first round was awful for the most part. It goes in cycles and it happens. Look at 1996. Sure it's frustrating when players don't pan out and it potentially sets back the franchise for years, but when a whole draft is terrible like that it's not a reason to cost people jobs.

 

[Edge]

Thats better than most teams in that draft.

The truth is we picked the wrong draft to have 2 top ten picks.

Unless you picked the right way to gamble.

Vancouver hit a grand slam in that draft. They were bold, it was risky, and it cost them, but it paid off.

 

[Gardner McKay]

The Winnipeg deal is already more value than I hoped for. If we can get the deluxe package from Dallas as well, the deadline becomes a grand slam for me.

If we get the deluxe package from Dallas, I think for one day, our section needs to be replaced with a giant crow. This way, all those who complained about the Zucc trade can have their crow feast.

In all seriousness, I am really thrilled with how Gorton has handled the deadline. Obviously he had no say in getting us to the 2nd overall pick (sans using all the good juju available to him), but if this rebuild is successful we will look back at this off season being the key to that success.

 

[Kaapo Cabana]

then you shouldn't have traded 4 assets to get the pick if there was no one good

I didn't trade anybody

In all seriousness though, I agree 100%

 

[Off Sides]

You know, something we don't talk about is whether or not – especially in light of the good fortune with the WPG pick – the organization might not prefer to trade his existing roster pieces, not to move up (since the POs so far are helping with that goal), but rather to acquire more guys from the 2014-2017 drafts and/or picks for 2020.

I mean, let's say we get lucky (knock wood) and wind up with the 2, 19, and 28. In addition, we'll have the 37 and 58 with which to work. That's more than enough ammunition to draft 2x in the top 15 and still have a pick left over in every remaining round, including the 2nd.

So, if you're Gorts, do you want to load up and spend your Kreiders and your Skjeis (and to a lesser extent, your Veseys and Namestnikovs) for yet more 2019 draft capital? Or would you rather do more Hayes-type trades to acquire picks for next year (or even 2021) plus young depth?

I'm hoping they are going for the 2019 draft concerning Kreider.

Skjei I'd probably keep for now.

I think any prospects worth trading for who were already drafted and were progressing well probably cost a ton if they are even available.

If they end up in lottery position next draft, and they end up in the top 5 or like this year the top 2, that is three drafts in a row where they may have setup the next ten years of this team with some ceilings that goes well beyond what my expectations were.

 

[Edge]

If we get the deluxe package from Dallas, I think for one day, our section needs to be replaced with a giant crow. This way, all those who complained about the Zucc trade can have their crow feast.

In all seriousness, I am really thrilled with how Gorton has handled the deadline. Obviously he had no say in getting us to the 2nd overall pick (sans using all the good juju available to him), but if this rebuild is successful we will look back at this off season being the key to that success.

This draft is a potential linchpin.

2018 was great, 2020 holds promise. But having picks at 2 and 21 is unique, before you even start factoring in the other potential add-ins to that scenario.

In most years, we're happy if we can land a potential top six forward. This year, we will have the assets, in one form or another, to add not only a potential franchise player, but also a top six forward. And that's without the Dallas pick becoming a first, or Kreider being moved, or any additional actions on our part.

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

It's so incredibly hard to make predictions at this point because of the variables, but you're 100 percent correct.

And how does a scenario look where the Rangers receive the 14th in a Kreider trade, and maybe only have to slide up two spots for Zegras? Say, the 58th pick?

And how does that look if you still have the 19th pick and 28th pick in the fold? Suddenly you have a delightful combination of quality and quantity.

Or how does it look if you're sitting at 14, take Newhook, still have 19, 28 and 37 and can land Fox for 58?

There's a plethora of different, attractive scenarios.

Right, but this was exactly my point on the last page. Depending on how the next round of the POs breaks, the Rangers may already have the draft capital to get Kakko plus their preferred center and still have picks left over in every round.

Say they take Kakko at 2, and then trade 19+28+37 to get Zegras (or one of the other top centers) at 8-12. You've still got 58, plus picks in every round after. Do you then also trade, say, Kreider for 14 to take another guy in this year's draft?

I don't know. It's certainly tempting to add a Caufield or a Kaliyev – or even a Newhook if he's still there.

But I'd love as much ammo as I can get to pick up one or more of Lafreniere, Lundell, Byfield, Barron, Raymond, Guhle, Gunler, Rossi, Drysdale, Holtz, Perfetti, Foudy, etc., etc. the year following...

(As for prospects, I would be thinking more guys like Lemieux who can fill a specific role on the bottom six, or bottom four, not anyone you're expecting can become a gamebreaker).

 

[RangerBoy]

You know, something we don't talk about is whether or not – especially in light of the good fortune with the WPG pick – the organization might not prefer to trade his existing roster pieces, not to move up (since the POs so far are helping with that goal), but rather to acquire more guys from the 2014-2017 drafts and/or picks for 2020.

I mean, let's say we get lucky (knock wood) and wind up with the 2, 19, and 28. In addition, we'll have the 37 and 58 with which to work. That's more than enough ammunition to draft 2x in the top 15 and still have a pick left over in every remaining round, including the 2nd.

So, if you're Gorts, do you want to load up and spend your Kreiders and your Skjeis (and to a lesser extent, your Veseys and Namestnikovs) for yet more 2019 draft capital? Or would you rather do more Hayes-type trades to acquire picks for next year (or even 2021) plus young depth?

Hopefully, Dallas wins 4 more games and the Rangers pick moves up from #49 to #28-#31. Still root for Dallas if they advance to the WCF. The Rangers need the Stars to sign Zuccarello. From everything I have read, the Stars really like Zuccarello. Jim Nill. Jim Montgomery. Zuccarello seems to enjoy playing for the Stars. It's a quality team. Good group of guys. A few top European players. He has been hanging out with the Swedes. Klingberg and Janmark. Zuccarello has given them a secondary scoring option. Montgomery can keep Benn-Seguin-Radulov together without worrying about getting no offense from the other 3 lines. Zuccarello had 3 goals in the Nashville series. GWG in game one.

The Rangers get the Stars #1 in 2020. Zuccarello signs a 5 year extension worth $5M in Texas. $612,500 more per in Texas.

The Rangers should try to acquire TB's pick at #27 for Ryan Callahan's contract. The Rangers have talked with TB about that contract. #58 to TB for Callahan's $5,8M cap hit and #27. The Rangers can flip Callahan at the trade deadline for a 2nd or 3rd in 2020.

The Rangers need to trade Kreider this summer. Whether it's for a 1st in 2019 or 2020 or it's to move up into the top ten this June. Gorton needs to move Kreider. The Rangers know what Kreider is at this point. They have been looking at him since 2012 on an every day basis.

 

[True Blue]

So, if you're Gorts, do you want to load up and spend your Kreiders and your Skjeis (and to a lesser extent, your Veseys and Namestnikovs) for yet more 2019 draft capital? Or would you rather do more Hayes-type trades to acquire picks for next year (or even 2021) plus young depth?

If there is some sort of an opportunity to move up and get into top-10, I think that you need to look at it If there isn't, if there is a chance to get a 10-15 in 2020, I think that you need to look at it.

I think that is how Gorton will see it. If he has to sacrifice Kreider to get into top-10 this year, Kreider is gone. If that does not happen, and if Kreider's contract demands are in line with what Gorton thinks, I think he stays.

One thing we truly do not know is how management percieves Skej. If there is a small deal that will land him more currency (2nd rounders) by trading Nametsnikov or Vesey (especially in 2020)., they are gone.

 

[True Blue]

But if the lottery balls fall the other way, and we're picking 7th or 8th, we're not going to have that same capital and cross-section of good fortune that we have this year.

To be fair, next year's top 10 looks fantastic. The whole draft is looking to be strongest since 2003, which is really saying something. If I am Gorton, I try to come away with lots of 2020 currency. Including another first rounder.

 

[BLOCKERSAVE]

Do anyone know if Hagelin is a FA this year ? With he be a good cheap 3rd or 4th line veteran pick up?

 

[True Blue]

The Rangers need to trade Kreider this summer. Whether it's for a 1st in 2019 or 2020 or it's to move up into the top ten this June. Gorton needs to move Kreider. The Rangers know what Kreider is at this point. They have been looking at him since 2012 on an every day basis.

He is a leader and a legit top line wing. I understand the idea to trade him, but why does Gorton NEED to move him?

 

[McRanger]

I would've gone 1 for 2 at that draft, based on my favorites and approach.

I would've busted on Lundmark. But I would've hit on Jackman.

I’m still surprised the Rangers never ended up with Jackman. It felt like every trade rumor from the early 00’s had his name connected to the team.

 

[Fugazy]

He is a leader and a legit top line wing. I understand the idea to trade him, but why does Gorton NEED to move him?

I would agree it shouldn’t be viewed as a need to trade Kreider, but Gorton should certainly be pursuing any alternative options that will get them a nice bump in a draft pick.

 

[Edge]

To be fair, next year's top 10 looks fantastic. The whole draft is looking to be strongest since 2003, which is really saying something. If I am Gorton, I try to come away with lots of 2020 currency. Including another first rounder.

It certainly does. But for me, it's the combination of factors that makes this year's draft unique: landing the second pick, the Jets pick being anywhere from 5 to 10 spots higher than we could've hoped for, the additional Dallas and Tampa picks, the chance to sell a team on a full year of a player, and not just a rental, etc.

Push comes to shove, I think I'd rather have $20 to spend this year, and $10 next year, rather than $15 for each year.

 

[Edge]

I’m still surprised the Rangers never ended up with Jackman. It felt like every trade rumor from the early 00’s had his name connected to the team.

He was one of those guys we always seemed linked to in some way, kind of like Shanahan.

 

[Thirty One]

He is a leader and a legit top line wing. I understand the idea to trade him, but why does Gorton NEED to move him?

If you don't know RangerBoy's answer to this by now, I don't know what to tell you.

 

[Off Sides]

He is a leader and a legit top line wing. I understand the idea to trade him, but why does Gorton NEED to move him?

To be fair, next year's top 10 looks fantastic. The whole draft is looking to be strongest since 2003, which is really saying something. If I am Gorton, I try to come away with lots of 2020 currency. Including another first rounder.

I would not say need, but if Kreider is moved, and they stay out of the UFA insanity, it probably likens the chances of their own pick being in top 10 position for the 2020 draft.

I think their own 2020 pick possibly being earlier out weights them having an extra later pick for 2020

 

[True Blue]

If you don't know RangerBoy's answer to this by now, I don't know what to tell you.

You're right. Don't know what I was thinking.

 

[True Blue]

I would agree it shouldn’t be viewed as a need to trade Kreider, but Gorton should certainly be pursuing any alternative options that will get them a nice bump in a draft pick.

I think that if Gorton comes across a deal that he views as in the best way to help the franchise for the long term, he will deal anyone.

 

[eco's bones]

Hopefully, Dallas wins 4 more games and the Rangers pick moves up from #49 to #28-#31. Still root for Dallas if they advance to the WCF. The Rangers need the Stars to sign Zuccarello. From everything I have read, the Stars really like Zuccarello. Jim Nill. Jim Montgomery. Zuccarello seems to enjoy playing for the Stars. It's a quality team. Good group of guys. A few top European players. He has been hanging out with the Swedes. Klingberg and Janmark. Zuccarello has given them a secondary scoring option. Montgomery can keep Benn-Seguin-Radulov together without worrying about getting no offense from the other 3 lines. Zuccarello had 3 goals in the Nashville series. GWG in game one.

The Rangers get the Stars #1 in 2020. Zuccarello signs a 5 year extension worth $5M in Texas. $612,500 more per in Texas.

The Rangers should try to acquire TB's pick at #27 for Ryan Callahan's contract. The Rangers have talked with TB about that contract. #58 to TB for Callahan's $5,8M cap hit and #27. The Rangers can flip Callahan at the trade deadline for a 2nd or 3rd in 2020.

The Rangers need to trade Kreider this summer. Whether it's for a 1st in 2019 or 2020 or it's to move up into the top ten this June. Gorton needs to move Kreider. The Rangers know what Kreider is at this point. They have been looking at him since 2012 on an every day basis.

On the TB 27OA---not saying not to try and do it but there's no way in hell the way that Callahan has played the last two/three years that we're getting a 2nd or 3rd for him at next year's deadline. He's basically become a run of the mill 4th liner. We'd be lucky to get a 5th for him.

 

[True Blue]

I would not say need, but if Kreider is moved, and they stay out of the UFA insanity, it probably likens the chances of their own pick being in top 10 position for the 2020 draft.

I think that with the team as is, even if Kreider is not traded, this is still more than likely a lottery team next year with a likely top-5 pick.

 

[Beacon]

McIlraiths NHL career unfortunately ended with his knee injury. Lost too much mobility and foot speed. Had to play a different game thereafter - aka dying breed hockey. Bad luck for the Rangers. Broken record...

Everyone has guys get injured, we just dont care about other teams' prospects. Philly gave up a ton (Forsberg was only a small part of the package) for Lindros and he turned out to have genetic concussion problems. Isles drafted his brother Brett at 9 overall and he retired at the age of 19.

It happens. And when we project our prospects, we should project that some will be injured.

The reason that it seems to hit the Rangers worse is that we never rebuild properly because fans here are impatient. 14 months since the start of the rebuilding, the only discussion in the roster building thread is which UFA do we sign or trade for.

Not only do you need to plug in all holes on paper, you need redundancy because of busts and injuries. You need to have Sanguinetti, Del Zotto and McDonaugh (who all were first round picks with first pair potential) just to get 1 of them to be good. But we here project every prospect to hit his ceiling and never get injured, and when it doesn't happen, we look in amazement with tears in our eyes, "but how could this bad luck happen to us?"