Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XXXIX

[Edge]

This is true but at the same time I don't believe very many teams have had the quantity of picks that we can have to move up. A potential 19/28/37 package is not something that is generally even an option.

Also very true.

It's why I really want that Dallas first. The extra leverage of having another first round pick is potentially a game-changer in negotiations.

 

[SA16]

Also very true.

It's why I really want that Dallas first. The extra leverage of having another first round pick is potentially a game-changer in negotiations.

I also think getting the Dallas 1st this year would significantly increase the chances that we get their 1st next year as it will put much more pressure on them to re-sign Zuccarello since he helped get them that far. Dallas winning four more games would be huge.

 

[Edge]

I also think getting the Dallas 1st this year would significantly increase the chances that we get their 1st next year as it will put much more pressure on them to re-sign Zuccarello since he helped get them that far. Dallas winning four more games would be huge.

The Winnipeg deal is already more value than I hoped for. If we can get the deluxe package from Dallas as well, the deadline becomes a grand slam for me.

 

[Fugazy]

I also think getting the Dallas 1st this year would significantly increase the chances that we get their 1st next year as it will put much more pressure on them to re-sign Zuccarello since he helped get them that far. Dallas winning four more games would be huge.

Completely agree. Just 4 more wins and we will have some great bargaining chips coming our way.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

So it reaffirms what we've talked about:

• 3-5 is usually the range of slots you can move up, with four being the sweet spot

• The cost is typically a second, sometimes a third if the move-up is smaller

Yes. I just wanted to contribute something we can use going forward as a reference. It's easier to have a visual

 

[NYRKing]

Regardless if the Dallas pick becomes a 1st, I think we're either trading up in the first round a la Keandre or we acquire a young player/RFA. The fact that WPG first round is 22 or better rather than 28-31 ain't no small thang. This allows us to attach one of the three top 60 picks to target a mid first rounder. Excited to see how this plays out, and frankly it would be a little less stressful to get a player who the staff covets but also the 'faller.' It's time to have the TSN crew talk about NYR getting a steal!

 

[Edge]

Regardless if the Dallas pick becomes a 1st, I think we're either trading up in the first round a la Keandre or we acquire a young player/RFA. The fact that WPG first round is 22 or better rather than 28-31 ain't no small thang. This allows us to attach one of the three top 60 picks to target a mid first rounder. Excited to see how this plays out, and frankly it would be a little less stressful to get a player who the staff covets but also the 'faller.' It's time to have the TSN crew talk about NYR getting a steal!

I think the Rangers will be very active in talks about moving up, it's just a matter of how much they have to work with, and how much they'd like to move.

It's hard to say right now because there's still a lot being decided. The Jets pick isn't entirely nailed down yet, we're looking at a range of 20+ picks with Dallas, and we don't know if Kreider will be dealt, or if the target would even be a first if they did move him.

If Kreider stays, the Dallas pick stays in the second, and the Jets pick ends up 21st, I think the Rangers will probably look to get into the late teens.

If Kreider goes, the Dallas pick moves up to a first, and the Jets pick ends up in the teens, I could very much see a scenario where the Rangers really go for broke: try for another top 10 and try for a mid-teen pick by packaging all their inherited picks. But I think that's the extreme case.

 

[True Blue]

everything i have read indicates he wants out and they know that. his days there are numbered.

winny has 2 maybe 3 legit d prospects ready to move up. they are stacked. they have depth.

He can want all he wants, Winnipeg still controls him for another year. And they ARE currently a team that is in it to win it. Whichever prospect comes in will not be able to adequately replace Trouba on a team that has their sights set squarely on the Cup. Being all in, means being ALL in. And their best chance to win is with Trouba. They are not going to move him for just future prospects.

hes available for the best offer. if yo uwnat something you go out and get it. if you wait around, you may never get the chance.

Everyone is available for the right offer. How many players have been discussed here as "grab now, they will never be available again"? As yourself, if you are Trouba why would you NOT see what free agency has to offer?

we should kick the tires on jake trouba.

They should stand still, see what they have, evaluate and see what his contract demands are when he is a UFA. They should absolutely NOT trade the assets that it will take to acquire him.

 

[True Blue]

There's an argument to be made that if you can grab Newhook at 21, maybe grab a kid like Dorofyev at 37 and trade 58 for Fox, and add all that on top of Kakko at 2, that you've just pulled off the draft day with the most diverse potential.

If they come away with Kakko, Newhook & Dorofeyev or even Nikolaev, it's time to party like it's 1999.

 

[Edge]

If they come away with Kakko, Newhook & Dorofeyev or even Nikolaev, it's time to party like it's 1999.

Oh God no, please don't mention that year and the NHL draft in the same conversation.

Bad memories, bad, bad memories.

 

[Thirty One]

If they come away with Kakko, Newhook & Dorofeyev or even Nikolaev, it's time to party like it's 1999.

1999 NHL Entry Draft Picks at hockeydb.com

No.

 

[True Blue]

Oh God no, please don't mention that year and the NHL draft in the same conversation.

Bad memories, bad, bad memories.

1999 NHL Entry Draft Picks at hockeydb.com

No.

The context was the Prince song, guys

 

[Edge]

The context was the Prince song, guys

I know, but that draft still kills me.

Brendl I was always lukewarm on, but Lundmark is still my biggest miss AINEC.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

In case anyone is interested, I created a list of teams trading up using only draft picks in the salary cap era:




The ones most relevant to our current situation are probably these:

Excellent work as always.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

1999 NHL Entry Draft Picks at hockeydb.com

No.

What a horrid draft, these people should never work in hockey again. The brendl pick was fine, he was close to 2pts per game in his first 2 years of the WHL. He got fat and threw it all away.

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

You know, something we don't talk about is whether or not – especially in light of the good fortune with the WPG pick – the organization might not prefer to trade his existing roster pieces, not to move up (since the POs so far are helping with that goal), but rather to acquire more guys from the 2014-2017 drafts and/or picks for 2020.

I mean, let's say we get lucky (knock wood) and wind up with the 2, 19, and 28. In addition, we'll have the 37 and 58 with which to work. That's more than enough ammunition to draft 2x in the top 15 and still have a pick left over in every remaining round, including the 2nd.

So, if you're Gorts, do you want to load up and spend your Kreiders and your Skjeis (and to a lesser extent, your Veseys and Namestnikovs) for yet more 2019 draft capital? Or would you rather do more Hayes-type trades to acquire picks for next year (or even 2021) plus young depth?

 

[RangerBoy]

You're right. My apologies. I forgot that all players become useless once they hit 30.

I am reading an article in The Athletic regarding Nashville.

David Poile gave Kyle Turris a 6 year contract worth $36M. Just one season into the contract, that is a bad contract. Turris turns 30 this August.

The disappearance of Filip Forsberg, Ryan Johansen and Viktor Arvidsson against the Stars reinforced the notion that the Predators are overly reliant on their top line. It would be prudent for them to dump Kyle Turris, who has been a major disappointment during most of his time with the Predators, and find a better option at second-line center. But good luck trying to get another team to take on the remaining five years and $30 million on his contract. (In fairness to Turris, the incompetence of the second line in all of its forms is also on Laviolette.)

Poile gave Ryan Ellis a 7 year contract worth $50M last summer. Turris turned 28 earlier this year.

It’s also time for Poile to strongly consider breaking up the Predators’ defense, which has failed to deliver a championship. This was the last season that the team’s quartet of prized defensemen came at a discount, with Ryan Ellis’ eight-year, $50 million deal taking effect next season and Josi up for an extension July 1.

Subban is the natural target for trade speculation because he makes the most money and doesn’t have the same ties to the Predators as the others, who were drafted and developed by the team. But Ellis’ play this season didn’t exactly inspire confidence ahead of his next contract.

The Predators had their chance and blew it. Now it's time...

Ellis wasn't very good in the Dallas series.

Nashville has him under contract for the next 7 years.

You can sit there and mock me but go look at the numerous players under awful contracts in the their late 20's/early 30's. Those teams are regretting those contracts.

James Neal in Calgary.

The Rangers have their share of mistakes too.

 

[Tawnos]

Turris was never really healthy this year. Let's see what he does next year. Last season was fine.

 

[Tawnos]

You know, something we don't talk about is whether or not – especially in light of the good fortune with the WPG pick – the organization might not prefer to trade his existing roster pieces, not to move up (since the POs so far are helping with that goal), but rather to acquire more guys from the 2014-2017 drafts and/or picks for 2020.

I mean, let's say we get lucky (knock wood) and wind up with the 2, 19, and 28. In addition, we'll have the 37 and 58 with which to work. That's more than enough ammunition to draft 2x in the top 15 and still have a pick left over in every remaining round, including the 2nd.

So, if you're Gorts, do you want to load up and spend your Kreiders and your Skjeis (and to a lesser extent, your Veseys and Namestnikovs) for yet more 2019 draft capital? Or would you rather do more Hayes-type trades to acquire picks for next year (or even 2021) plus young depth?

I said something similar to this leading up to the deadline. If the 2016 draft was the target of the 2018 moves, it would make sense if the 2017 draft was the target of some 2019 moves. I listed all of the 1st and 2nd round picks from 2017 I thought might be available.

I'd rather get a guy who has shown some development than a pick, personally.

 

[Kaapo Cabana]

I know, but that draft still kills me.

Brendl I was always lukewarm on, but Lundmark is still my biggest miss AINEC.

to be fair,

looking at what was available at 4 and after, you had to get extremely lucky to not pick a huge bust.

 

[Off Sides]

I think the Rangers will be very active in talks about moving up, it's just a matter of how much they have to work with, and how much they'd like to move.

It's hard to say right now because there's still a lot being decided. The Jets pick isn't entirely nailed down yet, we're looking at a range of 20+ picks with Dallas, and we don't know if Kreider will be dealt, or if the target would even be a first if they did move him.

If Kreider stays, the Dallas pick stays in the second, and the Jets pick ends up 21st, I think the Rangers will probably look to get into the late teens.

If Kreider goes, the Dallas pick moves up to a first, and the Jets pick ends up in the teens, I could very much see a scenario where the Rangers really go for broke: try for another top 10 and try for a mid-teen pick by packaging all their inherited picks. But I think that's the extreme case.

I'm good with the extreme case

Yet I'm not entirely convinced it has to be a top 10 pick, depends on how the draft breaks, I could see someone they have ranked in their top 10 still very much being there at 11-15 or so and someone(s) they have ranked in that mid teen spot(s) being there in the late teens. Using Button, if Boldy, Broberg, Soderstrom, Krebs, Knight, Lavoie go up, it could mean Zegras is there at 12, Newhook and Caufield past #15

Not that I think Button has it right, yet if so I'm not passing up on that sort of opportunity if I'm the Rangers if deals can be made.

 

[Edge]

You know, something we don't talk about is whether or not – especially in light of the good fortune with the WPG pick – the organization might not prefer to trade his existing roster pieces, not to move up (since the POs so far are helping with that goal), but rather to acquire more guys from the 2014-2017 drafts and/or picks for 2020.

I mean, let's say we get lucky (knock wood) and wind up with the 2, 19, and 28. In addition, we'll have the 37 and 58 with which to work. That's more than enough ammunition to draft 2x in the top 15 and still have a pick left over in every remaining round, including the 2nd.

So, if you're Gorts, do you want to load up and spend your Kreiders and your Skjeis (and to a lesser extent, your Veseys and Namestnikovs) for yet more 2019 draft capital? Or would you rather do more Hayes-type trades to acquire picks for next year (or even 2021) plus young depth?

If I'm Gorts, I think I go for the HR talent. I also think there's a distinct possibility that if Dallas makes the WCF, Zucc resigns there. So in that case, I already potentially have two firsts in 2020.

As for trying to get guys from 2014-2017, that can be a little tricky. The further from the draft you go, the more players tend to fall into one category of another. They're either putting most of the pieces together, in which cases teams don't want to trade them for picks. Or they're not putting the pieces together, in which case you're not going to want to trade picks for them. So it's a very difficult sweet spot to find.

Even if we're as bad next season as we are this season, there's no guarantee about picking as high as we do this year. With Kakko being our top pick, I think I'd rather take some big swings in this draft. I think I try to build this draft around him, like I would my broader team. If next year ends with another high pick, fantastic. They'll fit right in with the high-skill level we are trying to produce. But if the lottery balls fall the other way, and we're picking 7th or 8th, we're not going to have that same capital and cross-section of good fortune that we have this year.

And that's really a big driving factor for me - right now, we have some things falling into place very well. I think this is a great opportunity, if we can pull it off. We're in a unique position to come away from this draft with quality and quantity. And if it means sacrificing some of the quantity to get higher quality, I'm willing to do that because the end result could still easily be 3 prime young talents.

 

[Edge]

to be fair,

looking at what was available at 4 and after, you had to get extremely lucky to not pick a huge bust.

I would've gone 1 for 2 at that draft, based on my favorites and approach.

I would've busted on Lundmark. But I would've hit on Jackman.

 

[Kaapo Cabana]

I would've gone 1 for 2 at that draft, based on my favorites and approach.

I would've busted on Lundmark. But I would've hit on Jackman.

Thats better than most teams in that draft.

The truth is we picked the wrong draft to have 2 top ten picks.

 

[Leetch3]

to be fair,

looking at what was available at 4 and after, you had to get extremely lucky to not pick a huge bust.

then you shouldn't have traded 4 assets to get the pick if there was no one good