Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XXXIX

[Bluto]

I've said it before and I'll say it again; it would be horrible asset management to trade the Jets 1st and the Stars first to move into the top 10, let alone adding more to it. Keep all of the draft picks and pick BPA all the way through and go with that. In a draft this deep, quantity is much better, especially if you have 2 OA.

 

[Rangerfan4life90]

I've said it before and I'll say it again; it would be horrible asset management to trade the Jets 1st and the Stars first to move into the top 10, let alone adding more to it. Keep all of the draft picks and pick BPA all the way through and go with that. In a draft this deep, quantity is much better, especially if you have 2 OA.

It's not THAT deep a draft. If you move the Jets pick and Stars pick (if they get it) to jump into the top 10 and get a Zegras or Turcotte, that'd be a home run on top of Kakko.

 

[FIRE DRURY]

I've said it before and I'll say it again; it would be horrible asset management to trade the Jets 1st and the Stars first to move into the top 10, let alone adding more to it.

You might be right. Or, you might be wrong.

All we really do here is exchange different ideas. The “smart” posters are sometimes wrong, and the “not-so-smart” ones are sometimes are right.

Is the risk worth the reward this draft? Are you in position to even take a risk?

Lindgren.. Howden.. Andersson.. Hajek.. Good prospects. Not Great. I view these guys as potentially important pawns in our rebuild. Who are the game changers though?

Kakko is one.. Kravtsov, Miller, and Shesty are the others. Maybe Chytil.

Getting a chance to draft a Zegras or Cozens is imperative for us imo given the total makeup of the team. If moving up in the top-10 is possible for a realistic return, then you go for it.

 

[RGY]

It's not THAT deep a draft. If you move the Jets pick and Stars pick (if they get it) to jump into the top 10 and get a Zegras or Turcotte, that'd be a home run on top of Kakko.

This.

Had they not come away with the #2 overall and ultimately Kakko, then I would lean towards holding onto the picks. Stock more 1st round picks.

But imo Kakko is a game changer. And in a way it changes the approach. You start to consider to build around him. There are a few top end centers in the top 10. You start thinking about getting a kid who could be, more than likely, a very solid top 6 center to compliment your insane depth on the wings, especially if Chytil slides over.

So is it better to have those late 1st rounders or the 2nd top 10 pick.

I can understand the other side if the argument is hold onto those picks to get at least 1, maybe 2 defenseman. In the proposal, i had added the 2nd round pick, could be this year or next. But still thats an additional pick that could be used as a forward.

 

[Kakko Schmakko]

How about trade up a few spots maybe several times using the likes of Vesey and Namestnikov?

 

[egelband]

I cannot understand wanting to buyout Smith regardless of whether you are on team go for it next year or on team keep tanking for the foreseeable future.

If you want to win you should want to keep Smith since he's actually good.

If you want to lose why would you care about the cap next year and want to add on two years of a dead cap hit?

Exactly. Smith has turned into a good fourth liner. In fact, his problem as a defender is mistakes leading to big scoring chances. But as a forward there's less of that worry. Playing forward actually accentuates his positives. And he can take some shifts on defence if need be. He's overpaid but that's not a big deal for this team. If he plays well he might even have some trade value next winter with some retention. Keep him. As a forward. He doesn't block anyone either.

 

[flamesforcup]

Hey guys im a Flames fan hoping you guys could shed some light on Mika Zibanejad. Im sure you all know of our epic playoff collapse and one of the biggest reasons for that was having Monahan as our #1c. I was looking around at some realistic centre targets for the Flames to play with Gaudreau. Im curious how do you guys think Zibby played this year? Was it a fluke or do you think he can keep playing at a high level? How do you think he would do with a guy like Gaudreau? Monahan is 2 years younger so i think for a rebuilding team this might be an interesting trade idea. What would you guys want added to a trade centred around Zibanejad and Monahan?

Bonus: How was Hayes this year and do you think he can be an ok #1c for a team or would it just be a downgrade? Thanks

 

[egelband]

McDonagh is hailed around here as the best defender weve had in well..... forever.

over the last 7 seasons, hes played an average of 70 reg season games per yr. 70

trouba 6 seasons averaged 68 reg season games. 68

so why are we afraid of jake trouba ?

I think there was a large group of people who were concerned about McDonagh, too.

 

[egelband]

Hey guys im a Flames fan hoping you guys could shed some light on Mika Zibanejad. Im sure you all know of our epic playoff collapse and one of the biggest reasons for that was having Monahan as our #1c. I was looking around at some realistic centre targets for the Flames to play with Gaudreau. Im curious how do you guys think Zibby played this year? Was it a fluke or do you think he can keep playing at a high level? How do you think he would do with a guy like Gaudreau? Monahan is 2 years younger so i think for a rebuilding team this might be an interesting trade idea. What would you guys want added to a trade centred around Zibanejad and Monahan?

Bonus: How was Hayes this year and do you think he can be an ok #1c for a team or would it just be a downgrade? Thanks

Mika is legit. He is powerful and fast and controls the play going forward. He's also pretty good defensively. Basically he was healthy and kept his level of play high all year. Maybe he has found himself as a player. The only worry is injuries. But he has been well for a while now.
Hayes is a good 2C, I think. He feasts on other 2Cs and lower. When he's matched up against 1Cs he becomes a defensive guy.

 

[flamesforcup]

Mika is legit. He is powerful and fast and controls the play going forward. He's also pretty good defensively. Basically he was healthy and kept his level of play high all year. Maybe he has found himself as a player. The only worry is injuries. But he has been well for a while now.
Hayes is a good 2C, I think. He feasts on other 2Cs and lower. When he's matched up against 1Cs he becomes a defensive guy.

Mika sounds like exactly what we need. What would it take from Calgary to make the trade (with Monahan as our main piece)?

 

[egelband]

I think I could be persuaded if he was a free agent, maybe. And I fully admit that it's a big maybe for me.

But we have to trade for him first, and then still sign him.

So what exactly are we giving up for him? Because it's not just a contract and cap space.

It's going to cost us.

Yep. And Trouba truly has the Rangers over a barrel of they give up value for him before negotiating a new deal.

 

[Ola]

Mika sounds like exactly what we need. What would it take from Calgary to make the trade (with Monahan as our main piece)?

I think its hard, Gorton will find ways to get a good solid roster, but what we in NY always struggle with is finding those prime top talents. In a way Ziba is that. Its not that the value around a deal with Calgary would be off, whatever Gorton may be looking for in return is probably not there.

 

[Ola]

There's another really underrated defensive dmen that we're overlooking in free agency this summer. He has great size, is physical, can stick up for his teammates, has a bomb of a slap shot when he can get it off, and really fits that gritty, in-your-face mentality that Quinn wants us to play. Also has great numbers on the PK, which is an area that we drastically need to improve.

His name is Dylan McIlrath.

Don't tease me.

To be honest, Quinn would love McTruck as a 3rd pairing RD that can PK if we had two clear no 1-2 RDs in front of him. But at 236 lbs he will never play in the NHL.

So much is focused around McIlrath and the draft. But from a development POV its also a ship we didn't manage to steer quite right. When McI first came to the AHL he was a high pick with a reputation as a bad ass fighter. He more or less had to fight every single night, every heavy-weight fighter in the AHL challenged him whenever they got a chance too. And those guys were true heavies, guys that easily can toss them with someone like Reeves, and often a notch above RR too. Its very dangerous vicious fights.

McI fended himself in those fights, but he spent a big part of his focus going forward to prepare himself for them. The opposite would have been much better. He also had a part in that decision.

 

[Ola]

Yahoo!! Now can Dallas beat St. Louis?

Dallas actually have very good stats against STL this season. They are 3-0-1 with a GFPG of 3.3 and a GAPG of 1.8. And all games came late in the season, not early when STL were struggling. Or late, two in Jan, one in Feb and the fourth in March.

But STL did a great job to totally shut down Winnipeg's top guys. Benn-Seguin-Rads have been amazing, but everything will be decided on if they can keep it up against STL. I think it will be much harder, and if that is the case Dallas odds aren't great.

 

[BBKers]

McIlraiths NHL career unfortunately ended with his knee injury. Lost too much mobility and foot speed. Had to play a different game thereafter - aka dying breed hockey. Bad luck for the Rangers. Broken record...

 

[aufheben]

I look at guys like Panarin like Knights, Rooks, Bishops, and Queens.

If your pawns are not setting up your attack, or poising some sort of threat, those special pieces won’t do much on their own.

Getting the 2OA pick on top of all the other assets Gortons drafted and acquired is the equivalent of nailing a Caro Kano opening after 1.e4.

I don’t know what the “correct” answer is. Maybe it is signing Panarin and trading for Trouba. Or, maybe it’s doing neither and stay the course of building from within.

I’ve seen us try and sign mercenaries to fill our voids one too many times. I’m at a point in my life where I have the patience to see this team do something different.

I think we’ve acquired enough “good” assets where Gorton feels we have enough pieces to go swinging this draft. If that includes moving guys like Kreider, Skjei, Andersson, then so be it.

I think it’s more like reaching the 8th rank with a pawn and promoting that shit to a queen.

Yasss.

 

[eco's bones]

If I'm the Rangers GM and can find another pathway into the top 10 by packaging draft picks together I'm almost probably doing it. There is a tier dropoff after 10-12 guys and getting within that range for the kind of player you're looking for would be a smart thing to do. The center guys--Cozens, Dach, Zegras, Turcotte, Newhook would be guys I'd be looking for. Having 3 1st's is good but the quantity isn't a more important factor than quality. I can live with having two 1st's instead if they're higher quality. After the last two drafts we have quantity as it is and another glut of prospects coming this draft and next.

 

[RangerBoy]

I find it hard to believe that spending 11 million dollars on a player is not "building around that player"

I know, right? The Rangers are going to drop $11 million large on Panarin and the expectations won't increase? $11M for a complementary player. People here love to talk about windows. Panarin's window is in the next 2-3 years. The Rangers will spend the next two seasons trying to figure out their goaltending situation. When you spend $77M on one player, the rebuild is over. It's time to win. The player is 27 and his prime seasons are winding down. The Rangers are planning to miss the playoffs next season or the next two years with Panarin? People are losing their jobs in that scenario. The Rangers getting back into the free agent is the dumbest idea ever.

 

[eco's bones]

McIlraiths NHL career unfortunately ended with his knee injury. Lost too much mobility and foot speed. Had to play a different game thereafter - aka dying breed hockey. Bad luck for the Rangers. Broken record...

Dylan was going into his rookie pro year and it took him almost two and a half years to get over it. Those were key development years--and that injury just f***ed up his career. I agree though his kind of game is dying but there's no reason to believe he couldn't have turned out like Brayden McNabb or someone like that who has had a pretty decent career all in all. It's almost like Kyle Jean came into our lives like a bolt of lightning out of the blue to cause havoc. Jean looked like a world beater for a development camp and for about a month into that first year and then fell completely off a cliff and disappeared. In the meantime his goofy hit had destroyed what could have been a promising career for McIlrath.

 

[eco's bones]

Panarin is not a complementary player. The guy can carry a line.

 

[Edge]

I've said it before and I'll say it again; it would be horrible asset management to trade the Jets 1st and the Stars first to move into the top 10, let alone adding more to it. Keep all of the draft picks and pick BPA all the way through and go with that. In a draft this deep, quantity is much better, especially if you have 2 OA.

I don’t think the Jets and a potential Stars pick gets them into the top 10.

I think the only way they get into the top 10 is to either trade directly in, or be close enough that a team might be willing to trade down.

Fortunately, for what you prefer, I don’t think a team trades out of that range for 21 and 28.

However, the Rangers could trade up from either slot with the inclusion of a second. I’d say 2-4 picks is most likely the value. So the Rangers could look to slide up to 17 or 24.

 

[Beer League Sniper]

If we're trading into the Top-10, it's going to cost Kreider or Skjei. Our two late 1sts (if the DAL pick pans out) aren't going to get us there.

Given that reality, I think it might make more sense to trade down and take as many swings as possible in the 2nd and 3rd rounds with the makeup of this draft.

 

[Irishguy42]

I know, right? The Rangers are going to drop $11 million large on Panarin and the expectations won't increase? $11M for a complementary player. People here love to talk about windows. Panarin's window is in the next 2-3 years. The Rangers will spend the next two seasons trying to figure out their goaltending situation. When you spend $77M on one player, the rebuild is over. It's time to win. The player is 27 and his prime seasons are winding down. The Rangers are planning to miss the playoffs next season or the next two years with Panarin? People are losing their jobs in that scenario. The Rangers getting back into the free agent is the dumbest idea ever.

You're right. My apologies. I forgot that all players become useless once they hit 30.

 

[eco's bones]

If we're trading into the Top-10, it's going to cost Kreider or Skjei. Our two late 1sts (if the DAL pick pans out) aren't going to get us there.

Given that reality, I think it might make more sense to trade down and take as many swings as possible in the 2nd and 3rd rounds with the makeup of this draft.

I agree that 18OA + 28OA (best case scenarios for those two draft picks) probably doesn't get us into the top 10--there's a chance but moving up 10 spots to 8 is a real reach. So Kreider and the 18OA right now (though no guarantee) is probably our best shot. Failing at that though there's no way I'd move the 18OA down for more draft picks--maybe diversify the later one but quantity isn't necessarily a problem for us anymore.

 

[True Blue]

No it has not. That is how they are spinning it. To cover for the fact that they ruined their own rebuild. Please do not buy it.

Ruined their own rebuild? What are you talking about? This rebuild is still nascent. The trading of Brassard was a retool on the fly. The rebuild started when they have started to trade away major pieces for future assets.

Still early but results have been very positive.