Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XXXIV

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Would love to bring Boyle back.

YES! Okay, now that Lemieux happened, I have to move on to touting something else. Brian Boyle on a high dollar short term 1-2 year deal please. Guy plays wing or center, is a true leader, is great with young players, can play 3rd or 4th line, excels on the PK. That and he knows the Rangers and NY.
 


If Fox decides not to sign with Carolina, I would expect the ’Canes to explore the trade market. The New York Rangers are among the teams believed to be interested in his services and really, it comes down to where Fox would want to play. No team would trade for him without knowing they could sign him.

The key question is when exactly Carolina would be ready to deal his rights? There is no question that if Fox decides to turn pro he would want to sign his NHL contract before the end of this season so that he could burn the first year of his entry-level deal. Which he could certainly do if he signed with Carolina. Of intrigue to me is whether the ’Canes would be willing to move his rights asap so he could immediately sign with another NHL team or whether Carolina chooses to wait until the offseason which would put Fox a year behind on his NHL service time. The ’Canes could potentially decide to wait if they believe a better offer will present itself during the offseason.

(Of note, a source confirmed that Fox would burn the first year of his entry-level deal without even playing a game as long as he signs before that NHL team’s season ends, which includes the playoffs. Another interesting subplot is if Fox were to play an NHL game before the end of the season, he would need to be protected in the Seattle expansion draft of June 2021.)

By all accounts, Fox should develop into a top-four NHL blueliner although I got some differing views of him on Thursday.

“I guess the question marks would be about his ability to defend,’’ said one NHL scout via text message. “He can run a PP. Offensive D-men are hard to find!’’

Said a rival Eastern Conference NHL team executive: “Above average puck skills. Really smart, terrific vision. Sub six-footer with modest speed and quickness. His size/speed ratio really bothers me. Drives a lot of production on the PP but I don’t see him being a major PP guy in our league.’’

From a Western Conference team exec: “There’s no question he’s a skilled guy. He’s undersized but full of offensive skill. Not a great skater but good instincts. How will that translate to the NHL?’’

Fox holds all of the cards here. Putting him on the active roster starts the contract.
 
If the Rangers are fortunate enough to draft a top 3 talent while also signing Panarin they will be competing a lot sooner than people think.

The Rangers haven't had elite talent in quite sometime. Kakko and Hughes could be franchise level skill. Panarin is Elite every season. One could argue Zib is Eilte as well. This scenario doesn't get the Rangers into the Playoffs next year. Which is great because that draft might rival 2006, but it makes them take a momentous step forward while the new bloods get faster and stronger. 20-21 realistically is where I see them making the PO if a scenario as stated above is brought to light.

Panarin - Zib - Kravtsov
Kreider - Chytil - Kakko
Lemieux - LA - Vesey
Names - Howden - Strome
Fast

The roster above is significantly better and you can essentially let it go and see what happens. Factor in Hughes and it's one hell of a foundation. Move around the bottom 6 a bit trade where you can to improve.

I think we can all agree ADA looks like a solid contribution. Miller, Nils and any picks this year will all get solid looks the year after.

Now obliviously if we pick 4-7 it changes things a lot. Really if we do, the team should aim to bottom out next year and aim for a top 3 pick. Guys picked 3-7 likely will contribute in the future but not right away.

We always have the plugs. We always have the bottom 6 guys. We never have elite/franchise talent. Getting 2 pieces in one off-season changes everything. Fingers crossed we land 4 and get some lotto luck to pick 1 or 2. If not, next year might be more of the same. Which is ok, because we need to draft low.
lol @ people who leave Buchnevich out of these projected lineups
 
The dream is we get lucky in the lottery and jump to 2. Draft Kakko. Trade a mid to late round pick for Fox’s rights. Carolina does not have much leverage if he says he has only a couple teams in mind that he would sign with. Kravtsov, Kakko, Fox join the roster next year.
 
If I'm the Rangers, I jump at the opportunity to send a 3rd to Carolina right now, and then sign Fox on the last day of the season. It gives Fox what he wants and the Rangers get a highly skilled RD
 
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See I have seen this before however you aren't taking into account that:

1) JVR was a 3rd line forward and PP specialist in Toronto who doesn't really produce much at 5v5
2) Evander Kane has known off-ice quirks that scared some teams away

I'm sticking with he will easily get the 7x7

JVR isn't a PP specialist. 1.85 pts/60 last year. 2.38 the year before. 1.71 the year before. He's a good 5v5 scorer.
 
You dont win the Cup with the 28th best C, 26 best LW and 29 best RW. Those may be first liners as they are top-31 in their position, but you don't win the Cup if your first liners are the bottom end of first liners. You need your guys who are at least top 10, hopefully top 5 in their position to be a real contender.
This is based on their offensive stats, yes? Put Krieder to ride shotgun with Crosby, and what do you think you have? Put ZBad in Tampa, and what do you think those point totals look like?
 
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Since Leetch in 1986, our top-10 draftees were Jay More, Niklas Sundstrom, Manny Malhotra, Pavel Brendl, Jamie Lundmark, Dan Blackburn, Al Montoya and Dylan McIlrath. Only one (Sundstrom) could be called an average NHLer, and he was nothing special, a few years on the second line, mostly on the third.

I get that Gorts and Co aren't responsible for it, but I can understand fans' scepticism.
Hey, I understand the history. It is no miracle that there has been 1 cup in nearly 80 years. However, to say that they have no faith in Gorton on draft day is punishing today for the misdeads of yesterday. The fact of the matter is that largely, his moves have been good ones.
 
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I think in an ideal world, hes your #2 center but what a world that would be.
Yes and no. Yes, what an amazing world if would be if your #2 center was an elite #1 center. That would be great, but not realistic. At best what can be hoped for is that they draft someone that can, in time, do what ZBad is doing. I think that people greatly underestimate what they have and always see greener pastures elsewhere.
 
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I think it boils down to a few things

1. Does NY sign a free agent or two at the possible expense of a better draft slot (tanking) AND
2. Blocking a roster spot for a prospect who could really emerge as a difference maker if given the chance
We need so much that a free agent or 2 won't be blocking anyone. Also any prospect that is ready really does not have anyone blocking him right now. If you look at our forwards who is guaranteed a spot? I think many assume both Chytl and LAS will be on team next year but if someone comes along that is better IMO he would easily jump over LAS at a minimum if not Chytl. Both have been unimpressive this year and have really fallen off last month or so. LAS in my mind does not project to be more than a 3rd/4th liner at best. I know he is young but he is not a great skater nor is he someone who has a scorer's attributes. I look at him as a Fast lite type player.
 
Did anyone catch the Dave Maloney and Kenny Albert interview with Jeff Gorton on Wednesday night between first and second period?

Maloney sent out a tweet before the game and I listened to it. I have tried to find a clip on post here but they didn’t post it anywhere.



It was a good listen. A good % of the 17 minute intermission.

Gorton was asked about the status of the rebuild. Gorton said the plan is for the Rangers to be a good team for a every long time. Not one of these teams which is good for a few years and then has to retool again. The Rangers have traded away so many good players and people but it was necessary. He mentioned a few of them.

Gorton likes Chytil at center. He has more room to skate and create.

They like Georgiev’s progress. Gorton said now is the right age for Shestyorkin to come over to the NHL. Same age as when Hank came to New York. The Rangers will see how much of an adjustment Shestyorkin has to make to playing in North America. He didn’t say anything about trading Georgiev. They didn’t ask him.

He was asked about the three first round picks from last June. They want Kravstov here for next season. They really like the progress made by Miller at Wisconsin. Gorton compared Lundkvist to Stralman. They hope Miller and Lundkvist can be a top pairing for the Rangers in the future.

Maloney asked about free agency. Gorton said the Rangers are looking for veteran character players to help the young players play the right way.

Everything was about the long term. Be patient with this player and that player. Waiting for the young players to develop. He didn’t sound like someone eager to accelerate the rebuild with a huge free agent signing. Time will tell.


To me that all makes perfect sense.

I think they did accelerate the rebuild by selling stuff before it was not worth anything. In that process he added extra picks to their own, added a couple younger on the cusp prospects, stuff a team who waits too long to rebuild has trouble doing.

They seem to have maybe found something in ADA, Buch, where they have the talent to play above the 3rd pair, 3rd line, some of the prospects look, well promising.

Why not keep on that track and see what comes out of it all?

In the mean time they are not in danger of losing anything important to expansion, they can see what happens with the CBA, whether opt out or natural end, see what changes are made and adjust accordingly.

2021 Four of the biggest contracts on the team go away if not before hand. Same off-season is the first round of entry level contracts ending.

How flexible can they be that off-season? I'd say almost completely as long as they keep enough in reserves to make the next couple rounds of entry level contracts happen.

Between now and then need be, sign some older vets to contracts that do not go beyond the 2021 off-season. If they have to overpay on the cap hits so be it. If those players can be sold the same deadline as Shattenkirk, Staal, Smith, awesome that is a bonus, if not they all end that off-season.

Rangers get their mentoring/shielding vets who are not good enough to really change their draft position all that much, they see what all this youth does and does not do in between, and they are set up cap structure wise to make tons of choices in the 2021 off-season and beyond. If by that point they need to add some UFAs, or make some hockey trades they will be in great position to do so. If some trade comes up between now and then where a good younger player is on the block, they can look into that as well.


The concerns I still have should they do that,

The ceilings of the current NHL/AHL prospects, I'm patient and all yet it sure would be nice to see some more glimpses of good plays out of them. Some have shown more than others, I think that is normal, yet again, would just be nice to see more promise.

Their drafting, it is of the utmost importance they get it right. They have the ammo to do so, trust factor has to come into play. They need to get some elite/near elite stuff out of that. If they have to trade up to get those talents, whatever they have to do has to be done or else pretty much this is all for naught. High ceilings over high floors I believe needs to apply.

The AHL environment, I don't get to see the games so I do not have much insight yet it seems from an outside perspective they should be doing better.

My biggest concern is probably whether or not the organization has the patience to see it through. It's going to be bad for a couple seasons, progress is not linear, is there a breaking point there where they decide to rush it?

Temptations will arise, even right now with a couple expensive UFA on the market, some trade may present itself where it's close but just not quite the right fit, can they resist? Can they set limits on offers and just stick to them?

What becomes of the 3 NHL goalies situation should Shestyorkin come over? Can they they give him and Georgiev enough games, and still keep Lundqvist somewhat happy or is the idea to have him play less and less to the point maybe he starts to think about retiring instead of staying around for his last contract year?

Even once beyond that I question their pro NHL scouting somewhat, I mean they traded for and signed Smith, they signed Shattenkirk, is there something wrong with their NHL player evaluations? Yet on the flip side they also traded for Zbad, Strome, which were pretty savvy moves. Perhaps they need to figure out a way to differential between what is worthwhile and what is not. That mini odd retool thing with the whole Girardi buy-out, Stepan trade, still confuses me as to what their intentions were. Is there a faction within management who still thinks retooling is possible or was that a compromise that had to be made among management which has now past with the letter?

All in all I do think this can work, eventually make them a really solid team that can contend, yet to beat out the other contenders who they'll face in the playoffs, they are going to need some elite/near elite stuff just as the other contenders have. Some luck, good scouting, patience and I think they can get that stuff, yet until that happens and develops that is still going to be the big question mark.

I like what they are doing, I'm hoping all of management and ownership is also supporting it, comprehends how long the process can take even in the face of possible declining financial indicators, understands there are no guarantees only better and worse odds, and they have the right talent evaluation people in the right places.

I guess we'll see what they do, yet I'm far more optimistic about this direction should they stick with it than I was during any other era which was built around two or three big names.
 
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Love the strides that Zbad has taken, it was a great trade but alas he’s not elite at least by my definition. Still younger than most realize however.
And what is that definition?
1. Flood pipeline with promising players

2. Backfill through FA

3. Window be damned, we should go after elite talent like Panarin
1. How do you propose to flood it?

2. Please explain what "backfill" is and how it is used?

3. Please let me know how old Panarin will be when the Rangers are truly ready to compete (not just take steps forward, but legit Cup contenders)?
 
YES! Okay, now that Lemieux happened, I have to move on to touting something else. Brian Boyle on a high dollar short term 1-2 year deal please. Guy plays wing or center, is a true leader, is great with young players, can play 3rd or 4th line, excels on the PK. That and he knows the Rangers and NY.
I would love to see Boyle back to center the 4th line for a few years.
 
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Chris Kreider: Injuries have taken their toll on the alternate captain, and that no doubt will be taken into consideration. But management is not going to be able to simply ignore No. 20’s two goals over the last 21 games after he had recorded 24 in the first 52 matches in pondering whether to sign Kreider to an expensive long-term deal or trade him this summer — ideally it would be part of a package for a legit matchup righty defenseman — before he enters his walk year.

He wrote the same thing with Stepan. The Rangers need to bring back a RHD for Stepan. The Rangers traded him for futures. They took the best deal available to them.

If you read his stuff, he hates the rebuild so much. He wrote this crazy column about the Rangers screwing up their rebuild when they didn’t select Bergeron in 2003 and Krejci in 2004. Where is the really meme on this board?

Pining away for Kevin Hayes.

 
He wrote the same thing with Stepan. The Rangers need to bring back a RHD for Stepan. The Rangers traded him for futures. They took the best deal available to them.

If you read his stuff, he hates the rebuild so much. He wrote this crazy column about the Rangers screwing up their rebuild when they didn’t select Bergeron in 2003 and Krejci in 2004. Where is the really meme on this board?

Pining away for Kevin Hayes.



Trouba for Kreider.

Sorry. Had to do it. I really have, and have had zero interest in Trouba.

See how it goes at the draft. See what we can get. Reassess at the start of the season. I've always been a Kreider fan and don't want him moved, but for the right deal, you have to and I think the "right deal" is a bit less than it was before the trade deadline.
 
He wrote the same thing with Stepan. The Rangers need to bring back a RHD for Stepan. The Rangers traded him for futures. They took the best deal available to them.

If you read his stuff, he hates the rebuild so much. He wrote this crazy column about the Rangers screwing up their rebuild when they didn’t select Bergeron in 2003 and Krejci in 2004. Where is the really meme on this board?

Pining away for Kevin Hayes.



His fascination with Kevin Hayes has almost reached the point of stalker levels.

Post TDL, I feel like Uncle Larry continues to show why newspaper reporting is a dying occupation. Because it's a business model that has become so desperate to generate clicks and ad revenue, that it usually results in content that is only marginally better than that average person who takes to social media these days.

And why in the world would anyone pay for essentially the same quality of insight?
 
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Boyle? Jagr? Why don’t we just rename ourselves the New York Nostalgias? Let them go.
I’m not even bringing Jagr up for nostalgia’s sake, I think he’d suck which would help the team be bad, but by all accounts he’s a great leader/mentor for younger players. 1 year deal for who cares how much could help kill 2 rebuilding birds with one contract
 
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