Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XXXIV

[True Blue]

color me not convinced that our draft day decisions will be sound.

Based on what?

no elite talent. poor drafting history and poor FA signings. many swings and misses on draft day.

What is your proposal for obtaining elite talent? UFAs? Also, what is your definition of "elite"? What do you call ZBad?

they may have made the playoffs if they hung onto 13 and played hank less and georgie more. the pre trade deadline chatter and certainly post deadline culling of the roster killed the teams spirit.

And being first round fodder would have made them feel fantastic?

i liked the team for long stretches this season and would have added to the talent here rather than dump it and rely on the draft to rebuild us.

So what would you have done? And clearly they are relying on more than just the draft.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

There’s no uncertainty. This team is bad. The GM remains in asset accumulation mode, and the goal is to draft players with high-end potential, which they did in the 1st round.

I would say this team has as much certainty as I can remember. Only other period matching it being 2013-16.

 

[offdacrossbar]

Based on what?

What is your proposal for obtaining elite talent? UFAs? Also, what is your definition of "elite"? What do you call ZBad?

And being first round fodder would have made them feel fantastic?

So what would you have done? And clearly they are relying on more than just the draft.

been here before

our best players are poached from other teams or Fa's

our drafting history shows swings and misses and guys who aren't impact players.

i think i showed that only 4 of our top 12 scorers this season were drafted by us. thats pretty weak.

sorry dems the facts.

 

[True Blue]

been here before

our best players are poached from other teams or Fa's

our drafting history shows swings and misses and guys who aren't impact players.

i think i showed that only 4 of our top 12 scorers this season were drafted by us. thats pretty weak.

sorry dems the facts.

It is also de facts that this team went for a long time with either no first round picks or short on picks in general. Gorton was not the GM for most of that time. How many first rounders has he traded? How many drafts have he and Clark run? And if you are so in love with the defensive prospects that he acquired than how can you be so down on him during drafts?

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

been here before

our best players are poached from other teams or Fa's

our drafting history shows swings and misses and guys who aren't impact players.

i think i showed that only 4 of our top 12 scorers this season were drafted by us. thats pretty weak.

sorry dems the facts.

I wholeheartedly agree. Confused on your point. The team is doing everything it possibly can to get that young homegrown elite talent. Will it work? Who the f knows but they are actually trying for the first time ever.

Kravtsov looks like a good swing. Miller too. Heavily rumored interest in Keller and Pettersson. This pick could end up a make or break for Gordie. After 2010 and with the jury still out on 17, this has to be a big resume point.

I’m trying to be a little optimistic here. I still have my reservations (as @Fitzy mentioned, 2nd round being a big one) but generally am supportive.

 

[haohmaru]

been here before

our best players are poached from other teams or Fa's

our drafting history shows swings and misses and guys who aren't impact players.

i think i showed that only 4 of our top 12 scorers this season were drafted by us. thats pretty weak.

sorry dems the facts.

Those "facts" are manipulated.

Vesey, Hayes, Pionk, and Zukes were signed by us and never played for another NHL team so they were effectively "drafted" by us. Pretty deceptive, too, to not count the players that were traded away at the deadline. Our real "homegrown" top 12 is more like this for this season :

Zibanejad
Kreider
Hayes
Zuccarello
Buchnevich
Vesey
DeAngelo
Strome
Namestnikov
Shattenkirk
Skjei
Pionk

Which, by my count, is 7/12 either drafted by us or signed by us as undrafted free agents or college free agents that never played for another NHL team. Take it two steps further and it's 9/14 with Chytil and Fast.

(Edited Again): You have to remember, too, that we gave up a ton of first and second round picks over the preceding years - I'd say you have to give 2017 & later draftees a few more years to see how effective Gorton & Co. are at drafting in slots where it matters.

Historically, though, I'll give you that the Rangers are terrible at drafting high end forwards and centers in particular.

 

[effen]

if only the Rangers had elite talent like Edmonton (McDavid, Draisaitl) or Buffalo (Eichel, Dahlin) or Chicago (Kane, Toews), or Florida (Barkov, Ekblad), or Colorado (MacKinnon, Rantanen, Landeskog) or etc etc etc

alas

 

[Lays]

if only the Rangers had elite talent like Edmonton (McDavid, Draisaitl) or Buffalo (Eichel, Dahlin) or Chicago (Kane, Toews), or Florida (Barkov, Ekblad), or Colorado (MacKinnon, Rantanen, Landeskog) or etc etc etc

alas

Rangers are still a little over a year into their actual rebuild let’s remember that. We made the second round the season before last year. All of the guys you listed except Rantanen were drafted top 3, you say that like we even had an opportunity in our rebuild to draft guys like that. Who after Lias or Chytil have been much better? Lias is like 12th in scoring for his draft year.
Kravtsov looks to potentially be elite. Miller has top pairing potential. Lundkvist has top 4 potential and Gorton was comparing him to Stralman yesterday. How long did any of the teams you listed suck before they got those players? Surely none of them were one year into a rebuild, it takes time

 

[Tawnos]

sadly I've watch most of the games and the ones recently have been difficult.

the talent void has been evident for a while.

certainly since the deadline, the team is harder to watch. which is expected

lias, chytil, howden arent exactly elite talents but that may change

There's plenty of reason for optimism on the youth we've got this year. Don't forget this is still a team in flux. The next wave hasn't fully arrived and the last wave is still on its way out.

I don't think Howden ever projected as a top-liner, but Chytil had a solid rookie season and I still think he has 1C written all over him. Andersson's had an encouraging few games since moving up the lineup. Still an open question if he becomes a Stepan-like 1C caliber player, in my mind.

DeAngelo and Buchnevich's progress are big deals in my mind.

The biggest question was and remains the D. And despite the glut of LD in the system, I personally still take Bowen 3rd if we jump up to that slot.

 

[ThirdEye]

We just need that one elite center and I think we'll be golden. Something like Cozens/Turcotte-Zib-Chytil-Howden down the middle should make us contenders again sooner than later.

In terms of wingers... Kravtsov's upside is sky high and I think he's getting a little underrated because he played for such a shitty, low scoring team. A lot of publications have him ranked very high, with Button not too long ago ranking him as #1 prospect in the game. He's still raw, but I wouldn't put 80 points past him down the line

 

[alkurtz]

Here's a question:

If we had drafted Zbad at #6, as the Sens did, and it took him this long to become a legit #1 center, would we have, before this year, considered him a bust at #6 and looked to move him?

 

[brians1128]

Here's a question:

If we had drafted Zbad at #6, as the Sens did, and it took him this long to become a legit #1 center, would we have, before this year, considered him a bust at #6 and looked to move him?

You know the answer to that, of course this place would of wrote him off at 20

 

[True Blue]

We just need that one elite center and I think we'll be golden.

What is the case for ZBad not being elite?

 

[BobMarleyNYR]

There's plenty of reason for optimism on the youth we've got this year. Don't forget this is still a team in flux. The next wave hasn't fully arrived and the last wave is still on its way out.

I don't think Howden ever projected as a top-liner, but Chytil had a solid rookie season and I still think he has 1C written all over him. Andersson's had an encouraging few games since moving up the lineup. Still an open question if he becomes a Stepan-like 1C caliber player, in my mind.

DeAngelo and Buchnevich's progress are big deals in my mind.

The biggest question was and remains the D. And despite the glut of LD in the system, I personally still take Bowen 3rd if we jump up to that slot.

Agreed on everything but Andersson. He would have shown flashes of top-six potential by now.

 

[Beacon]

the Kane contract was laughed at by basically everyone as an overpayment the second it was signed.

By definition, every star UFA contract must be laughable. Every team would want to add a high end player for nothing. The only way you add him is if you offer a contract so bad, the other 30 GMs decide they'd rather give up a ton of assets in a trade than pay this kind of salary.

 

[Beacon]

Kreider will be at 8ish%. Depending on the cap that's where he'll be. Him not finishing strong plays a role.

6/40 would be a nice deal

You're telling me not 1 team offers him more than 40/6?

 

[Beacon]

What is the case for ZBad not being elite?

You dont win the Cup with the 28th best C, 26 best LW and 29 best RW. Those may be first liners as they are top-31 in their position, but you don't win the Cup if your first liners are the bottom end of first liners. You need your guys who are at least top 10, hopefully top 5 in their position to be a real contender.

 

[duhmetreE]

You're telling me not 1 team offers him more than 40/6?

He's not a UFA.

 

[BobMarleyNYR]

You're telling me not 1 team offers him more than 40/6?

Doubt it. He's a fast 2nd line winger. He shouldn't get more than 6.

 

[Beacon]

If the Rangers are fortunate enough to draft a top 3 talent while also signing Panarin they will be competing a lot sooner than people think.

...

Panarin - Zib - Kravtsov
Kreider - Chytil - Kakko
Lemieux - LA - Vesey
Names - Howden - Strome
Fast

This assumes everything breaks perfectly: every young kid reaches his ceiling, no veteran regresses, no major injuries. The odds of this happening are worse than the odds of winning the mega million lottery - next to zero.

And oh, most 3rd overall players are quality guys, but not difference-makers. It would be nice to get Galchenyuk or Drouin, but it won't change the course of our rebuild. The plan will still be to keep shipping away vets for youth and picks until at least 2021.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

What is the case for ZBad not being elite?

It's semantics really.

This season, Zibanejad has been probably 2 rungs below the superstar elite guys - McDavid, Crosby, MacK, etc.

He's more or less been on pair with Towes, Seguin, O'Reilly, Monahan, etc. on a team that doesn't score.

I'd like to see it backed up by another season, but hes been fantastic this year.

I think in an ideal world, hes your #2 center but what a world that would be.

 

[Lindberg Cheese]

What is the case for ZBad not being elite?

Love the strides that Zbad has taken, it was a great trade but alas he’s not elite at least by my definition. Still younger than most realize however.

1. Flood pipeline with promising players

2. Backfill through FA

3. Window be damned, we should go after elite talent like Panarin

 

[haveandare]

been here before

our best players are poached from other teams or Fa's

our drafting history shows swings and misses and guys who aren't impact players.

i think i showed that only 4 of our top 12 scorers this season were drafted by us. thats pretty weak.

sorry dems the facts.

We didn’t have a first for 4 years in a row. A few of those years we didn’t have a second either.

Nobody is drafting well without first and second round picks. You have to acknowledge that if you’re going to complain about the draft results.

 

[Machinehead]

I've always said I prefer to keep Kreider and I still do, but his injuries are becoming somewhat alarming.

The fact is, he does fail to hit the raw totals he should. I don't think that's effort and inconsistency, I think it's because something always happens to him. When it becomes habitual, it's something to think about as far as your next move.

Now, Zibanejad is totally off the table. That's a guy you move forward with. Core piece identified, obtained, and locked up. One down. And my gut feeling is still that he's the next captain of the New York Rangers when all is said and done.

 

[Beacon]

It is also de facts that this team went for a long time with either no first round picks or short on picks in general.

Since Leetch in 1986, our top-10 draftees were Jay More, Niklas Sundstrom, Manny Malhotra, Pavel Brendl, Jamie Lundmark, Dan Blackburn, Al Montoya and Dylan McIlrath. Only one (Sundstrom) could be called an average NHLer, and he was nothing special, a few years on the second line, mostly on the third.

I get that Gorts and Co aren't responsible for it, but I can understand fans' scepticism.