Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XXXIV
- Thread starter Krams
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LaffyTaffy
Brooklyn-Belarussian
They were both great coaches in their careers. Babcock significantly better than AV of course, but they were never overrated. At some point in every coach's career they start to lag behind the times and they can either adapt or fall through the cracks. The fact that AV and Babcock are no longer with the times doesn't mean they aren't great coaches, they are just not fit to be great anymore. That doesn't make them overrated, overrated would be calling Babcock the best coach in the league RIGHT NOW. Saying he is the greatest coach still coaching in the league would not be a reach in my opinion. Guy is a legend.
Ghost of jas
Unsatisfied
Actually, the truth is @RangerBoy is correct...even after signing Tavares, the Leafs are no better than they were last year. They’re still third in the Atlantic and more than likely facing Boston in the first round without home-ice advantage.
DutchShamrock
Registered User
The point about Tavares is his cap prevented them from addressing the real issues. They had the offense solved, no reason to add more at that cost. They probably hurt their cup chances instead of improving.
That doesn't make Tavares a bad player or the return on investment bad, it was just a bad choice. I think people are being willfully ignorant about the point because of who said it.
What I don't understand at this point is why everyone is chalking up Marleau as trade bait when he has a no move. They can ask but I don't see why he agrees to leave Toronto at this point in his career, especially for New York.
That doesn't make Tavares a bad player or the return on investment bad, it was just a bad choice. I think people are being willfully ignorant about the point because of who said it.
What I don't understand at this point is why everyone is chalking up Marleau as trade bait when he has a no move. They can ask but I don't see why he agrees to leave Toronto at this point in his career, especially for New York.
Thirty One
Safe is safe.
- Dec 28, 2003
- 28,981
- 24,357
I'm not going to put all the league's divisional structure on Tavares. Most of it, yes. But not all.
FireGerardGallant
The Artist Formerly known as FireDavidQuinn
- Mar 19, 2016
- 6,656
- 7,576
Tavares didn't make the Leafs worse, but they neglected the one area of their team where they had a real deficiency.
They won't win a thing until they beef up their D with actual talent.
They won't win a thing until they beef up their D with actual talent.
Gardner McKay
RIP, Jimmy.
The Penguins D was an abomination at times during their cup runs but they at least had Letang. Toronto doesn't have a Letang. Reilly aint it.
FireGerardGallant
The Artist Formerly known as FireDavidQuinn
- Mar 19, 2016
- 6,656
- 7,576
Gardner McKay
RIP, Jimmy.
- Jul 20, 2005
- 4,926
- 2,340
They won without Letang in 2017.
That's the year they looked worse than every team they played and somehow won the cup anyway because they're the Penguins.
Beer League Sniper
Homeless Man's Rick Nash
Completely disagree with the bolded.
Tavares' contract wasn't a mistake. The Marleau, Zaitsev and, to a lesser extent, Nylander contracts were.
They overpaid second-tier talent, and Nylander should have been used as a trade chip to improve their defense.
Now, Nylander has less value due to a pointless holdout, Marleau is 35+ contract with a NMC, and Zaitsev is approaching Lucic-level contract toxicity.
Elite players making elite money are never going to hurt a team.
Thinking we should gauge the Pionk market, what’s his value? Can we get a F Lemieux type roster player back, turn a 2nd into a 1st?
Beacon
Embrace the tank
- May 28, 2007
- 13,676
- 1,454
Lucic got $42/7, but 4 years earlier. Adjust that for the rising cap and you approach $50. Kreider scored .67 ppg last 3 seasons, Lucic scored .65 ppg last 3 seasons before his contract. Both are huge, but Kreider is much faster, likely giving him more career years. Someone will give him 7x7. Someone else will give him even more. He's not signing a $39/6 contract unless he absolutely loves the places and is willing to lose millions.
NYR Viper
Registered User
100% this. He's getting 7x7 at a minimum. The market was set by Evander Kane
offdacrossbar
misfit fanboy
after watching that tire fire last night, i cannot imagine how anyone could argue that were only a few drafts away from being competitive.
were years away.
why would panarin want to come here unless winning isn't at the top of his list. he signs here, he may not make the payoffs foe 3 years let alone win anything.
the talent gap, especially at forward and our outright lack of skill and speed, is alarming.
this season can't end soon enough but sadly, next season will be similar.
were years away.
why would panarin want to come here unless winning isn't at the top of his list. he signs here, he may not make the payoffs foe 3 years let alone win anything.
the talent gap, especially at forward and our outright lack of skill and speed, is alarming.
this season can't end soon enough but sadly, next season will be similar.
Beacon
Embrace the tank
- May 28, 2007
- 13,676
- 1,454
That's because 1 player never puts you over the top. 19 players skate each game. No one player can make that much of a difference. That's why rebuilding takes forever, even if you draft a superstar at #1OA. that's also why it was crucial for the Rangers to sell off their aging assets, and to keep on doing it. ADA, Lias, Lemieux, Strome are already on the team as a result of trades, and more are coming. This depth will be needed one day, if we can acquire our own Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Tavares.
Glen Sathers Cigar
Sather 4 Ever
Kane was 27 when his deal started. Kreider will be 29.
Kane also got barely any trade protection (3 team no trade list).
Kane also had a 30 goal season and multiple seasons of point totals higher than Kreider's career high.
Kreider's age will make them less of a direct comp than you think and if he wants some trade protection, that's going to drop things as well. Not to mention the Kane contract was laughed at by basically everyone as an overpayment the second it was signed.
JVR is a better comparable because the ages at the start of the deals will be the same and he got 7x5 while having much better stats and getting NO trade protection.
JVR's deal was 8.8% of the cap when signed. Give Kreider that cap % for 5 or 6 years with no trade protection, drop AAV slightly if he wants some protection and drop the AAV accordingly as more years get added on.
7.2 AAV x 5 years.
6.9 AAV x 6 years.
6.5 AAV x 7 years
E-Train
Registered User
Ok. And what? I’ll take this over the dark ages any day. ‘05-‘17 wasn’t good enough? Team became old and stale, rebuilds are rough.
offdacrossbar
misfit fanboy
no they are. i get that i really do.
this rebuild is going to be painful because we have little to no legit higher end talent on this team save for perhaps 5 players. the farm is painfully thin. the draft is a start but its not going to be enough.
theres an enormous amount of work to do here and its not going to happen quickly.
i continue to believe JG may not have the patience ( or time) for a 3-5 yr rebuild.
i still believe this organization lacks the backbone to stay the course
well see
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