Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XXXIV

[SA16]

after watching that tire fire last night, i cannot imagine how anyone could argue that were only a few drafts away from being competitive.

were years away.

why would panarin want to come here unless winning isn't at the top of his list. he signs here, he may not make the payoffs foe 3 years let alone win anything.

the talent gap, especially at forward and our outright lack of skill and speed, is alarming.

this season can't end soon enough but sadly, next season will be similar.

Winning is not at the top of every players list. If it was the case than the weaker teams would never sign anyone.

 

[MetalJaws]

after watching that tire fire last night, i cannot imagine how anyone could argue that were only a few drafts away from being competitive.

were years away.

why would panarin want to come here unless winning isn't at the top of his list. he signs here, he may not make the payoffs foe 3 years let alone win anything.

the talent gap, especially at forward and our outright lack of skill and speed, is alarming.

this season can't end soon enough but sadly, next season will be similar.

If the Rangers are fortunate enough to draft a top 3 talent while also signing Panarin they will be competing a lot sooner than people think.

The Rangers haven't had elite talent in quite sometime. Kakko and Hughes could be franchise level skill. Panarin is Elite every season. One could argue Zib is Eilte as well. This scenario doesn't get the Rangers into the Playoffs next year. Which is great because that draft might rival 2006, but it makes them take a momentous step forward while the new bloods get faster and stronger. 20-21 realistically is where I see them making the PO if a scenario as stated above is brought to light.

Panarin - Zib - Kravtsov
Kreider - Chytil - Kakko
Lemieux - LA - Vesey
Names - Howden - Strome
Fast

The roster above is significantly better and you can essentially let it go and see what happens. Factor in Hughes and it's one hell of a foundation. Move around the bottom 6 a bit trade where you can to improve.

I think we can all agree ADA looks like a solid contribution. Miller, Nils and any picks this year will all get solid looks the year after.

Now obliviously if we pick 4-7 it changes things a lot. Really if we do, the team should aim to bottom out next year and aim for a top 3 pick. Guys picked 3-7 likely will contribute in the future but not right away.

We always have the plugs. We always have the bottom 6 guys. We never have elite/franchise talent. Getting 2 pieces in one off-season changes everything. Fingers crossed we land 4 and get some lotto luck to pick 1 or 2. If not, next year might be more of the same. Which is ok, because we need to draft low.

 

[MetalJaws]

I'm sure the Rangers will have a top 5 prospect pool after this draft. That's insane for such a small period of time since the rebuild announcement.

 

[haveandare]

after watching that tire fire last night, i cannot imagine how anyone could argue that were only a few drafts away from being competitive.

were years away.

why would panarin want to come here unless winning isn't at the top of his list. he signs here, he may not make the payoffs foe 3 years let alone win anything.

the talent gap, especially at forward and our outright lack of skill and speed, is alarming.

this season can't end soon enough but sadly, next season will be similar.

Basing anything like that on one game is very silly. They’ve also hung with far better teams just recently. Good teams get stomped sometimes too.

I don’t think they’re good and I doubt they’ll be good next year but basing some long term outlook on a single ugly game is wacky.

 

[Gardner McKay]

after watching that tire fire last night, i cannot imagine how anyone could argue that were only a few drafts away from being competitive.

were years away.

why would panarin want to come here unless winning isn't at the top of his list. he signs here, he may not make the payoffs foe 3 years let alone win anything.

the talent gap, especially at forward and our outright lack of skill and speed, is alarming.

this season can't end soon enough but sadly, next season will be similar.

Did you call for a rebuild at any point over the last 3 years?

 

[E-Train]

no they are. i get that i really do.

this rebuild is going to be painful because we have little to no legit higher end talent on this team save for perhaps 5 players. the farm is painfully thin. the draft is a start but its not going to be enough.

theres an enormous amount of work to do here and its not going to happen quickly.

i continue to believe JG may not have the patience ( or time) for a 3-5 yr rebuild.

i still believe this organization lacks the backbone to stay the course

well see

It’s true, it’ll take 3 years to start coming out of it. I think the farm is in good shape and will be in great shape after the next 2 drafts. It’s coming together but unfinished. Some pieces are in place up front. I see ADA as first not second pair, Skjei solid #3. Keep adding the talent and it will get there.

 

[Ghost of jas]

Did you call for a rebuild at any point over the last 3 years?

Let’s see, there was the ‘this team lacks elite talent ‘ phase, followed by ‘‘this can make the playoffs this year’ and now this latest take.

 

[offdacrossbar]

Did you call for a rebuild at any point over the last 3 years?

absolutely.

a retool or a redo call it what you want. it has to happen but i did want to retain hayes and would have done so while jettisoning some of the other passengers.

we are seeing the extended results of poor drafting and bad FA signings over the last say 7 years. we are now harvesting that crop and its pretty barren.

this organization seems to be caught between competing and rebuilding. adrift in uncertainty.

 

[Paulie Walnutz]

no they are. i get that i really do.

this rebuild is going to be painful because we have little to no legit higher end talent on this team save for perhaps 5 players. the farm is painfully thin. the draft is a start but its not going to be enough.

theres an enormous amount of work to do here and its not going to happen quickly.

i continue to believe JG may not have the patience ( or time) for a 3-5 yr rebuild.

i still believe this organization lacks the backbone to stay the course

well see

I agree, we have stockpiled picks but outside of Kravtsov who else has the potential to be a game breaker in the farm system? And even with Kravtsov it’s way too early to pencil him in to do anything. He can just as easily bust and be the next Nichuskin. Miller has the potential to be a first pair d-man due to his athleticism but he’s still a few years away from even making the team. Chytil’s season can literally be broken down over a one week span of highlights. Hopefully next year he’s bigger stronger and more engaged. Howden hit the rookie wall and still hasn’t gotten up. Lias needs to be more engaged as well. I think it was @Amazing Kreiderman who compared him to a Chris Drury type, meaning he won’t drive the play but he’s always in the right place at the right time. I agree with that. I think Lias needs to be more physically engaged. Have Lemieux take him under his wing. Defensively you have Staal, and Smith as dead weight, Shattenkirk has been at times as well. Then you have DeAngelo and Pionk kind of cancelling each other out. I think Pionk has maxed out his ceiling and he’s a finished product, a 3rd pairing/second pp d-man. DeAngelo has a higher ceiling and is finally starting to hit his stride. I just don’t think he can handle the grind of being a top pair d-man and matching up against the other teams’ best due to his size. What’s the plan for next season? Go with the same 3 right d again? If that’s the case they need to counter balance it by either finding a bigger left handed or right handed d to balance it out. A Marc Staal in his prime so to speak. They need to work with Skjei as well. I think he has untapped offensive potential because of his skating ability to join the rush. I think having Leetch work with him would really go a long away. We’ve done a decent job acquiring picks and mid level prospects but the issue still remains that we lack high end talent on offense and defense. We’ve definitely done a good job acquiring character players and role players: Lemieux, DeAngelo, Strome, hopefully Lias, hopefully Lindgren. Factor in Buchnevich possibly turning a corner and being more engaged, he’s a feisty player go back and look at his WJC days. Namestnikov developed an edge too. We’re slowly building the house with character while already having guys like Smith, Kreider, on the team. And that’s what some posters mean when we talk about “tuffness”, it’s a Wolfpack mentality, guys sticking up for one another, not useless goons like McLeod. We still lack the game-breakers and that concerns me moving forward.

 

[Ghost of jas]

absolutely.

a retool or a redo call it what you want. it has to happen but i did want to retain hayes and would have done so while jettisoning some of the other passengers.

we are seeing the extended results of poor drafting and bad FA signings over the last say 7 years. we are now harvesting that crop and its pretty barren.

this organization seems to be caught between competing and rebuilding. adrift in uncertainty.

There’s no uncertainty. This team is bad. The GM remains in asset accumulation mode, and the goal is to draft players with high-end potential, which they did in the 1st round.

 

[Gardner McKay]

absolutely.

a retool or a redo call it what you want. it has to happen but i did want to retain hayes and would have done so while jettisoning some of the other passengers.

we are seeing the extended results of poor drafting and bad FA signings over the last say 7 years. we are now harvesting that crop and its pretty barren.

this organization seems to be caught between competing and rebuilding. adrift in uncertainty.

Our record indicates otherwise.

Whether you wanted to keep Hayes or not, it is irrelevant. When you call for a rebuild, there are going to be a lot of decisions made that you don't agree with. A lot of guys will get traded. We will suck. Nothing should be a surprise.

 

[offdacrossbar]

Let’s see, there was the ‘this team lacks elite talent ‘ phase, followed by ‘‘this can make the playoffs this year’ and now this latest take.

exactly.

no elite talent. poor drafting history and poor FA signings. many swings and misses on draft day.

they may have made the playoffs if they hung onto 13 and played hank less and georgie more. the pre trade deadline chatter and certainly post deadline culling of the roster killed the teams spirit.

i liked the team for long stretches this season and would have added to the talent here rather than dump it and rely on the draft to rebuild us.

color me not convinced that our draft day decisions will be sound.

 

[Ori]

But the future is exciting and it will take a while to get there.

 

[NYR Viper]

Kane was 27 when his deal started. Kreider will be 29.

Kane also got barely any trade protection (3 team no trade list).

Kane also had a 30 goal season and multiple seasons of point totals higher than Kreider's career high.

Kreider's age will make them less of a direct comp than you think and if he wants some trade protection, that's going to drop things as well. Not to mention the Kane contract was laughed at by basically everyone as an overpayment the second it was signed.

JVR is a better comparable because the ages at the start of the deals will be the same and he got 7x5 while having much better stats and getting NO trade protection.

JVR's deal was 8.8% of the cap when signed. Give Kreider that cap % for 5 or 6 years with no trade protection, drop AAV slightly if he wants some protection and drop the AAV accordingly as more years get added on.

7.2 AAV x 5 years.
6.9 AAV x 6 years.
6.5 AAV x 7 years

See I have seen this before however you aren't taking into account that:

1) JVR was a 3rd line forward and PP specialist in Toronto who doesn't really produce much at 5v5
2) Evander Kane has known off-ice quirks that scared some teams away

I'm sticking with he will easily get the 7x7

 

[DutchShamrock]

Completely disagree with the bolded.

Tavares' contract wasn't a mistake. The Marleau, Zaitsev and, to a lesser extent, Nylander contracts were.

They overpaid second-tier talent, and Nylander should have been used as a trade chip to improve their defense.

Now, Nylander has less value due to a pointless holdout, Marleau is 35+ contract with a NMC, and Zaitsev is approaching Lucic-level contract toxicity.

Elite players making elite money are never going to hurt a team.

Tavares was signed after Marleau and Zaitsev. They are no doubt bad deals. But they were in place when they chased Taveres. I think JT will ultimately be another shovel full of dirt that buries the team, Marleau and Zaitsev are others. That JT money could have addressed defense. The Marleau money could have too, but the fact they spent good money after bad while neglecting their real problem is a bad move. They weren't blind sided by the Marleau and Zaitsev contracts suddenly appearing, they knew it was there and still dove in head first. They had an avoidable problem. Now they need to bribe the Horton contract away, let Gardiner walk, and probably lose Kapanen or Johansson ala Hagelin.

I guess we'll see next season, but they will probably do worse this post season and worse overall next year since their bad d will be worse, and an offensive piece or two will be gone.

Totally agree about the nylander points though. He should have been moved once JT was inked. He is their only way of salvaging the cap issue and defense.

 

[Gardner McKay]

See I have seen this before however you aren't taking into account that:

1) JVR was a 3rd line forward and PP specialist in Toronto who doesn't really produce much at 5v5
2) Evander Kane has known off-ice quirks that scared some teams away

I'm sticking with he will easily get the 7x7

I am in agreement that he easily gets 7 million. I don't think 7 years is a guarantee. In fact, I think 6 years/7 million or even 5 years/7.5 million is much more likely.

 

[Tawnos]

Imagine watching one game between a good team that’s hot and a bad team that’s cold and drawing conclusions about the future of the bad team.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

Imagine watching one game between a good team that’s hot and a bad team that’s cold and drawing conclusions about the future of the bad team.

you’d be larry brooks in that instance

 

[Gardner McKay]

you’d be larry brooks in that instance

Or... ah f***. Never mind.

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

you’d be larry brooks in that instance

And seemingly 95% of Rangers fans on social media.

 

[offdacrossbar]

Imagine watching one game between a good team that’s hot and a bad team that’s cold and drawing conclusions about the future of the bad team.

sadly I've watch most of the games and the ones recently have been difficult.

the talent void has been evident for a while.

certainly since the deadline, the team is harder to watch. which is expected

lias, chytil, howden arent exactly elite talents but that may change

 

[Fitzy]

We really need to start doing better with second round picks.

 

[Off Sides]

Kane in his clause, submits a 3 team list where he can be traded to, not a 3 team he can not be traded to list.

 

[EpicDing]

I agree, we have stockpiled picks but outside of Kravtsov who else has the potential to be a game breaker in the farm system? And even with Kravtsov it’s way too early to pencil him in to do anything. He can just as easily bust and be the next Nichuskin. Miller has the potential to be a first pair d-man due to his athleticism but he’s still a few years away from even making the team. Chytil’s season can literally be broken down over a one week span of highlights. Hopefully next year he’s bigger stronger and more engaged. Howden hit the rookie wall and still hasn’t gotten up. Lias needs to be more engaged as well. I think it was @Amazing Kreiderman who compared him to a Chris Drury type, meaning he won’t drive the play but he’s always in the right place at the right time. I agree with that. I think Lias needs to be more physically engaged. Have Lemieux take him under his wing. Defensively you have Staal, and Smith as dead weight, Shattenkirk has been at times as well. Then you have DeAngelo and Pionk kind of cancelling each other out. I think Pionk has maxed out his ceiling and he’s a finished product, a 3rd pairing/second pp d-man. DeAngelo has a higher ceiling and is finally starting to hit his stride. I just don’t think he can handle the grind of being a top pair d-man and matching up against the other teams’ best due to his size. What’s the plan for next season? Go with the same 3 right d again? If that’s the case they need to counter balance it by either finding a bigger left handed or right handed d to balance it out. A Marc Staal in his prime so to speak. They need to work with Skjei as well. I think he has untapped offensive potential because of his skating ability to join the rush. I think having Leetch work with him would really go a long away. We’ve done a decent job acquiring picks and mid level prospects but the issue still remains that we lack high end talent on offense and defense. We’ve definitely done a good job acquiring character players and role players: Lemieux, DeAngelo, Strome, hopefully Lias, hopefully Lindgren. Factor in Buchnevich possibly turning a corner and being more engaged, he’s a feisty player go back and look at his WJC days. Namestnikov developed an edge too. We’re slowly building the house with character while already having guys like Smith, Kreider, on the team. And that’s what some posters mean when we talk about “tuffness”, it’s a Wolfpack mentality, guys sticking up for one another, not useless goons like McLeod. We still lack the game-breakers and that concerns me moving forward.

It's true that we don't have many potential gamebreakers in the system, but we have a ton of potential 2nd pairing/middle 6 guys. Gorton's plan seems to be to eventually package a few of those guys to bring in elite talent, an option that often seems overlooked. An example is the Penguins Kessel trade.

Some of these prospects will make it with other teams, and we'll have the returns from those trades.

 

[Calad]

Chytil, LA, Howden all very young players in their first full pro season and struggling with consistency.

The only thing less surprising is the amount of armchair GMs here deciding they've seen enough of them to know they will never be talented NHL regulars.