Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XXXIII

[LORDE]

I'm not saying he has been fantastic, but he is almost exactly what he was prior to joining the Rangers. A #5 and PP specialist. If you were expecting a top-pairing guy the bar was set too high to begin with. If you watch games from the beginning of the season compared to now he is moving much better now. It's not that I think he is some amazing player, it's just that he has clearly improved mobility wise as compared to the beginning of the season. That and I know knee injuries can take a while to come back from especially for a hockey player.

Doesn’t fit the narrative of a patient rebuild and doing that would be something that a GM who was trying to cut corners would do?

 

[Edge]

Time will tell. We have players on Havlat’s level. We have talent here already with Zibanejad and if we keep Kreider. We have drafted/acquired (6) 1st round picks alone from the last three drafts. We very well may end up with (3) more in this upcoming draft. That is just the 1st round alone. Forget who may emerge in rounds 2-7. Guys that we acquired like Lindgren and Rykov who were drafted in those rounds but their stock rose a bit after they were drafted.

I think we could match that “window” of competitiveness because of how many early round picks/talent we have accumulated

I don’t doubt we can. The question is timing.

And I feel like every proposal that pushes for Panarin really wants that timing to be something it probably isn’t.

The businessman in me doesn’t typically plan on everything going right and ahead of schedule in order to make a scenario fit. And that’s what I feel forms the basis of most Panarin proposals.

Thus the reason I keep saying this feels like a forced fit.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

You wonder why Panarin might want to come here but it's really not that hard to understand. From 2008-2011 Artemi Panarin played for Chekhov Vityaz of the Kontinental Hockey League. One of his teammates there? Former Ranger Chris Simon. You don't think Simon might have told Artemi a little bit about his time as a Ranger and made it sound appealing to him? He also briefly played for Kazan. Who did he play with there? Jarkko Immonen. Then he went to SKA. Guess who he played with there. Petr Prucha. Fedor Fedorov. Alexei Semeonv. Dmitri Kalinin. Igor Shestyorkin. Is it that hard to believe that he's always wanted to be a Ranger based on the connections he made while in Russia?

This never gets old.

 

[LORDE]

At this point speculating when a window "starts" is pure conjecture without knowing how our draft picks develop, who is or isn't traded, who is or isn't signed, which UFA's we sign or don't sign, etc...

2023 is your guess. That's all it is.

And yet it’s a much “safer” guess than most on this board want to admit.

Like as soon as we buy out Staal and Smith and retain on Shatty all will be complete and they’ll hand us the Stanley Cup.

The lack of patience and outright folly of watching this team and seeing ANY sort of contender until at least 2023 is laughable.

 

[Leetch3]

How does Panarin accelerate everything by a year? He doesn't cut a year off of the Staal, Smith, or Shattenkirk contracts. He doesn't force the development of any player ahead by a year. He doesn't turn this team into a playoff team. So what exactly is he accelerating?

not disagreeing with your premise, but it accelerates things based on the assumption that we need to add elite talent and one of the best ways to acquire elite talent is to be bad and draft high. well panarin is elite so getting him eliminates the need to get an elite player in the draft. we need multiple guys, but you'd need to draft one less

the problem though is the timing and i don't see how the blueline is fixed before you've wasted half of his contract

 

[Edge]

There are a lot of older guys continuing to excel into their 30s.

Getzlaf leads ANA in scoring yet again. Bergeron is pacing 97pts/season, Marchand (30) leads the team, and Krejci is pacing for a career year (70pt pace). Giordano is about to win the Norris at 35. Kane and Toews are about to shatter career highs at 30y/o. Yandle @ 32 is pacing the same. Kopitar (32) and Brown (34) lead the kings in scoring and Parise and Staal (34) lead the Wild. On our own team, Zuccarello was scoring at his best rate ever at 31.

10 0f the top 30 scorers are 30+.

Then there's consideration of how many games Panarin has played. 313 Regular Season, 17 Playoffs. (Taylor Hall — a month younger — has played 562 and 5 for comparison -- with many not counted bc of injuries)

What about Panarin himself makes you think he wouldn't still be an elite player at 32?

You’re right Getzlaf does lead Anaheim in scoring...with 48 points.

I don’t know if we should be looking at that outcome as a source of comfort.

Getzlaf is also not making 11 million a season and Anaheim doesn’t appear to be on the brink of a breakthrough.

I mean facts are facts, look at the top 30 scorers in the NHL, or even the top 50. How many 32 year olds do you see?

Maybe a handful?

So we’re going to pay a guy $11 million a year and in a few years, when we’re competitive, he’s going to be around 32. So we’re getting his best years when we’re not ready and his downside years when we are?

Because it really won’t mattet what he does at 29 or 30 or even 31, because the timing isn’t there.

Basically, the entire strategy comes down to throwing a boatload of money at Panarin, so he joins a team that almost everyone on here agrees has a long road ahead, based on the optimistic prediction that the Rangers have one of the fastest turnarounds in modern NHL history, so that there’s a brief overlap where maybe their good fortune aligns with Panarin still being a productive player at around 32, despite the number of players 32 and older scoring in the top 30 or 50 in the NHL being a short list, and ignoring the fact even the ones who are successful (using your examples) are not making 8 figure salaries.

I’m sorry, but that ain’t too convincing for me.

 

[Edge]

And yet it’s a much “safer” guess than most on this board want to admit.

Like as soon as we buy out Staal and Smith and retain on Shatty all will be complete and they’ll hand us the Stanley Cup.

The lack of patience and outright folly of watching this team and seeing ANY sort of contender until at least 2023 is laughable.

Look, if anything, I think our current situation really highlights that we’re not an NHL max contract away from being on our way to better days.

There’s quite a bit of work to do.

I know some of these things people really don’t want to hear, but history and a look at our roster paints a pretty telling picture.

It’s the Rangers’ inconvenient truth.

 

[LORDE]

We don’t have one player on this team at the moment whom we’ve drafted since the rebuild began, that is anything more than a question mark and people feel we have acquired enough draft picks that we should start filling in w UFAs

I’m boggled

 

[egelband]

He had major knee surgery and didn't play the entire second half of the season last year. It hindered some of his training I am sure this past summer as he needed to do PT in lieu of pure hockey and strength training. Some of these injuries take years for the players to catch back up physically. It's not like they can work out during the year so if you miss out on 2-3 weeks of training in the off-season that can hinder an entire year of playing.

Thank you. Not just this, but there are so many things that have to fall into place for every player, every team. So many variables.
Bottom line, they have to produce. Everyone. But I'm glad to see this acknowledgement rather than name-calling. Sorry. Probably should have just hit Like and left it at that ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Edge]

We don’t have one player on this team at the moment whom we’ve drafted since the rebuild began, that is anything more than a question mark and people feel we have acquired enough draft picks that we should start filling in w UFAs

I’m boggled

We have potential and it’s very good potential. But it’s still just that - potential.

If this were a couple of years from now, and we knew more of what we had, besides projections, I really think it could be a good idea. But we’re not there yet.

I mean literally, despite potential, we have three rookie centers who have scored a combined 2 goals in 2019 thus far.

It’s not like these guys are in year three and possibly on the brink of bigger and better days. We’re still trying to figure out what they are, and what positions some of them will play. And those are the guys who are here, the rest still aren’t even here yet.

We’re already eyeing big purchases, and half the checks we’re counting on haven’t even arrived in our mailbox yet, let alone our bank account.

 

[RGY]

I would argue adding an established elite player, who these young kids could learn from, could help those same young kids actually reach their potential ceiling.

 

[Edge]

I would argue adding an established elite player, who these young kids could learn from, could help those same young kids actually reach their potential ceiling.

For $11 million and the back end of that contract, he better come with a the ability to edit players EA sports style.

 

[egelband]

Hockey is such an advanced sport, it’s not about talent, it’s about development. It’s like gymnastics. Some half serious 15 y/o girl doing gymnastics 3- 4 times a week out in some small town would never even remotely be able to compete with a peer training at an elite school, they wouldn’t be on the same planet. Talent can not to a large extent make up for training. Hockey is getting more like that. Everyone are talented, the big difference is training. The exceptions like a Barzal or McAvoy making a super early impact doesn’t change the rule.

This is JMO. I don’t think I am afraid to raise concerns when I have them or that I am as a rule is overly optimistic or something. I wouldn’t say that everyone in the system will reach/exceed expectations. But I would — definitely — claim that I think you will be very positively surprised by how these kids will have developed over the coming 5-6 years. Especially if we keep doing the right things.

And that might involve getting a bit more support for the kids playing, don’t have to be Panarin but maybe more than what they have right now. Sure, but I don’t think we have to be pessimistic about the kids on the team due to the team not competing in the NHL.

Well said. No team is comprised of just Jack-of-all-trade types. Most players are specialists at a facet or three. Develop these guys correctly according to a good blueprint and I think we'll be ok. Development and planning is huge. Maybe more than talent in isolation. My opinion.

 

[RGY]

For $11 million and the back end of that contract, he better come with a the ability to edit players EA sports style.

I would hope for that too.

But i would like to have him wih Chytil. And possibly Kravtsov on the opposite side. I think he helps these kids take the next step.

Kreider-Zib-Buch
Panarin-Chytil-Kravtsov

Thats could be a very strong top 6 as the foundation for your forward group. Its a lot of money, yes, but I think the investment would be worth it.

I would like to move Namestnikov’s salary out and replace with Hagelin at a less AAV even if it isnt significant. Maybe move Strome’s salary as well.

Hagelin-Howden-Lemieux
Strome/Vesey-Andersson-Fast
Boo

Eventually you hope whomever we draft in the top 10 this year slides in somewhere. Maybe we move Lias. Maybe Vesey/Fast/Strome are gone in 2-3 years.

 

[effen]

This never gets old.

I for one am enjoying the sweetheart 2/10 deal Ilya Kovalchuk signed last summer to be close to his family and enjoy the first-class treatment, practice facilities, and medical staff the New York Rangers enjoy. Players talk to each other and he certainly heard what the Rangers were all about from Nigel Dawes and Marcel Hossa.

Can't believe some people thought he'd take 3/18 from a West Coast team.

 

[wafflepadsave]

We have potential and it’s very good potential. But it’s still just that - potential.

If this were a couple of years from now, and we knew more of what we had, besides projections, I really think it could be a good idea. But we’re not there yet.

I mean literally, despite potential, we have three rookie centers who have scored a combined 2 goals in 2019 thus far.

It’s not like these guys are in year three and possibly on the brink of bigger and better days. We’re still trying to figure out what they are, and what positions some of them will play. And those are the guys who are here, the rest still aren’t even here yet.

We’re already eyeing big purchases, and half the checks we’re counting on haven’t even arrived in our mailbox yet, let alone our bank account.

If the talking heads would shut up, this thread would slow down. Problem is these guys are claiming that the Rangers will be big game hunting. It scares me that they’ll go back to their old ways. Hope not.

 

[Thirty One]

You wonder why Panarin might want to come here but it's really not that hard to understand. From 2008-2011 Artemi Panarin played for Chekhov Vityaz of the Kontinental Hockey League. One of his teammates there? Former Ranger Chris Simon. You don't think Simon might have told Artemi a little bit about his time as a Ranger and made it sound appealing to him? He also briefly played for Kazan. Who did he play with there? Jarkko Immonen. Then he went to SKA. Guess who he played with there. Petr Prucha. Fedor Fedorov. Alexei Semeonv. Dmitri Kalinin. Igor Shestyorkin. Is it that hard to believe that he's always wanted to be a Ranger based on the connections he made while in Russia?

lol Semenov

 

[Shesterkybomb]

We don’t have one player on this team at the moment whom we’ve drafted since the rebuild began, that is anything more than a question mark and people feel we have acquired enough draft picks that we should start filling in w UFAs

I’m boggled

It's not filling in, you continue doing what you are doing but you have one less high end player to look for.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Adding a top line player we don't have to draft isn't the same thing as accelerating everything by a year. It could take the team 2 years to find a 3rd top-line player, or they could draft one this June that steps in right away. Panarin is just a single player. He doesn't have some sort of sweeping impact on the roster or the direction of the franchise.

Exactly...no player does unless we are talking Crosby. But when you hold hope in a bunch of draft picks and you get an option for an elite scorer without having to give up assets in years you dont have to worry about the cap you take it if you can. Nobody is saying "We get Panarin we are a cup team now". I'm saying we add Panarin, he compliments the young players we drafted and shelters them a bit from the pressure to immediately be a first line player. We have a lot of holes at wing, and outside of Kravtsov we really haven't drafted a top 6 winger yet that has shown themselves yet.

 

[Miamipuck]

Didn't Gaborik credit the Rangers medical staff to helping him finally get past some of his lingering issues? Granted, that was 10 years ago but I don't think our staff is quite that bad.

They also figured out Stralman's problem and then did fantastic work on Kreiders blood clot problem. The Rangers medical staff isn't that bad. They also have to deal with hockey's culture, as the players aren't pansies sitting for games with a blister or absurd little injuries , like they do in other sports. The Rangers haven't lost an inordinate amount of players due to injury for as long as I can remember. With many NHL teams, it seems like half their players are always injured. This team has a very good medical staff from the trainers to the Dr's.

 

[effen]

Save us, Fedor Federov

 

[LORDE]

It's not filling in, you continue doing what you are doing but you have one less high end player to look for.

Again, the rest of the team isn’t there.

This is Hank 2.0

We luck out w a generational goalie and force a jump start rebuild that gets close but not there.

Timing is everything

 

[FireGerardGallant]

It's not filling in, you continue doing what you are doing but you have one less high end player to look for.

Instead of selecting top 5 next year this team would prob be selecting between 10-12. Signing Panarian is just making things harder on ourselves, our team isn't ready to sign big name fa's yet

 

[Miamipuck]

Signing Panarin would be one giant mixed message.

We all know the rebuild at present, is in its nascent stages. Management can't believe anything other that that, I don't think they're dumb. Not a single first round pick, or any pick for that matter, from 2018 is on the team and the ones from 17 are struggling big time.

As of now, there is not one guaranteed star or even a decent NHL player out of the bunch. Yes, they are young and developing but the fact remains that we have no idea what we have there, even if many look quite promising.

The team sold off all the low hanging fruit and collected a ton of draft assets. Those assets won't be ready for quite a while.

The problem with a big signing is its in direct opposition to being patient and letting the picks develop at their proper pace.

Signing an 11 or 12 million dollar player does nothing to accelerate the process other then to make the average fan think the rebuild is getting close to being over. Hey if management wants to open that can of worms then they will be out of jobs in two years. It's in direct opposition to the the letter last year warning the fans to prepare for penetration.

With all the draft capital that they are building and hopefully young players that are developing there will be other opportunities to get high caliber players. More specifically when the timing is right.

I just don't see the timing here. Signing Panarin just doesn't make any sense for a team in an early rebuild. There are too many ifs right now.

Great the Rangers have expiring contracts in a few years. By all means let them expire.

I am ok with a crappy team next year. Let's do the rebuild correctly. Let the picks develop at their own pace, fix Hartford, and Quinn continue to get the most out of what he can. Panarin is just a bandaid on an arterial wound. Meh

 

[egelband]

Panarin and Kreider are the same age basically. So I think it's either (try to) sign both or ignore Panarin and trade Kreider. Or, at least, that's one way the front office can go.