Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XXXIII

[Miamipuck]

Instead of selecting top 5 next year this team would prob be selecting between 10-12. Signing Panarian is just making things harder on ourselves, our team isn't ready to sign big name fa's yet

I don't think he makes even that big a difference. 1 player is not making a bottom 3 team into a bottom 10 or 12 level team. Making that type of monetary commitment isn't smart for the Rangers at present.

Which means they sign Panarin for 13 million this summer. Lol

 

[egelband]

If the Rangers had kept the 17-18 team together as much possible, would they be a playoff team?
I'm talking, they kept:

-Stephan, McD, Hayes, etc

I suspect they'd have kept AV. So, no. But that team with Quinn, I'd think so.

 

[Calad]

Signing Panarin would be one giant mixed message.

We all know the rebuild at present, is in its nascent stages. Management can't believe anything other that that, I don't think they're dumb. Not a single first round pick, or any pick for that matter, from 2018 is on the team and the ones from 17 are struggling big time.

As of now, there is not one guaranteed star or even a decent NHL player out of the bunch. Yes, they are young and developing but the fact remains that we have no idea what we have there, even if many look quite promising.

The team sold off all the low hanging fruit and collected a ton of draft assets. Those assets won't be ready for quite a while.

The problem with a big signing is its in direct opposition to being patient and letting the picks develop at their proper pace.

Signing an 11 or 12 million dollar player does nothing to accelerate the process other then to make the average fan think the rebuild is getting close to being over. Hey if management wants to open that can of worms then they will be out of jobs in two years. It's in direct opposition to the the letter last year warning the fans to prepare for penetration.

With all the draft capital that they are building and hopefully young players that are developing there will be other opportunities to get high caliber players. More specifically when the timing is right.

I just don't see the timing here. Signing Panarin just doesn't make any sense for a team in an early rebuild. There are too many ifs right now.

Great the Rangers have expiring contracts in a few years. By all means let them expire.

I am ok with a crappy team next year. Let's do the rebuild correctly. Let the picks develop at their own pace, fix Hartford, and Quinn continue to get the most out of what he can. Panarin is just a bandaid on an arterial wound. Meh

Where is the logic in this? I don't understand, please help me, because lots of people keep telling me that signing a big free agent means we suddenly give up on our rebuild.

If we sign him, does it mean we will stop trading expiring assets for prospects and draft capital? Does it mean we will suddenly call up all of our young guns and stunt their development? Will Gorton suddenly turn around and trade all the picks we've collected for rentals? Should we have all of our young prospects surrounded by plugs who are just here to collect a paycheck for a year or two then move on? What kind of environment do you think that would create for them? (See; Edmonton, Buffalo, Arizona aka perpetual darkness). Most of those teams have a superstar and yet somehow they still continue to suck, why is that? I thought if you have a big star (especially on a big contract), then your team won't suck or be rebuilding anymore. Signing an elite talent to a long contract gives our rookies some stability, someone for the coach to lean on a bit more, and something for the fans to enjoy while the team sucks nuts.

Some members of this community have also noted that the notion of Panarin signing here for a reasonable contract is absurd. "Wont accept anything less than ~12 million" "Market will offer him way more hes never comin here lol" . When someone makes a rebuttal to that they just scoff and say shit like "lol ur delusional bro NEVER GONNA HAPPEN". Glad you're here to show us how your opinion is the only correct one and everyone else should shut up (not talking about you here OP, just a select few posters who will definitely know who they are). Panarin has stated publicly he wants to go somewhere his wife would be happy, and NYR seems to be at the top of the list. I think if he ends up signing here he will be leaving more money on the table elsewhere, and he will be here because he wants to be a Ranger.

 

[Ola]

A relevant factor on the Panarin talk:

‘Everything’ is about to change in the coming months. For us it feels like it’s late March and we just have a long wait ahead for us. But one PO series can totally flip how a franchise evaluates itself. Not to mention how the entire league’s perception of for example a player can change so much during a PO series.

A team thinking that it’s a contender today can get swept, 0-4, and really get a wake up call. Looking to make radical changes.

Another team thinking it has things under control for July 1, can have an upcoming RFA do great in the POs and have all calculations blow up.

A super long almost max commitment to Panarin might not be the only way to get another established NHLer on the roster for next summer.

 

[Ola]

Gutsy move?

Brady Skjei
Lias Andersson

for

Quinn Hughes
Jake Virtanen

 

[UAGoalieGuy]

Gutsy move?

Brady Skjei
Lias Andersson

for

Quinn Hughes
Jake Virtanen

Highly doubt Vancouver move Hughes for that.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

You can't expect players to want to stay involved in a dumpster fire forever. This team needs to start moving in an upward trend next year or management has failed miserably. I'm not talking about competing for a cup or anything but playing meaningful games this time of year. There is no way their plan is to bottom feed for 2 more years, ..the players will tune out, check out and leave here. I mean does Kravtsov even want to come here next year, what about shestyerkin? They don't have to, and if it's between getting your butt handed to you nightly for league minimum or playing at home for KHL money then they may pick the latter. College free agents, ufa, rfa players and our own players playing overseas have to see some light at the end of the tunnel to wanna come here. I'm 100% sure they didnt tell Quinn we will be bad for his first 5 years here, he wouldn't have left where he was. If you wanna complain about who we picked fine, but this thing cant linger on forever or your players lose the will to compete, you can already see it happening now as this year drags on. I like Gorton but if he can not turn this ship in the right direction next year, he will be fighting for his job the following year and there is nothing more dangerous than a GM fighting for his job

 

[Ori]

Highly doubt Vancouver move Hughes for that.

Yes Vancouver will not move Hughes at his stage in his career especially not for Brady Skjei with a solid down year and Lias with 1 goal in over 33 games this season, and 2 goals in 40 NHL games since AV was coach with his career stats so far.

 

[Ola]

Highly doubt Vancouver move Hughes for that.

I don’t know how they value Hughes, but I think Lias more or less = Hughes and Skjei is certainly > Virtanen.

 

[Blue Blooded]

I don’t know how they value Hughes, but I think Lias more or less = Hughes and Skjei is certainly > Virtanen.

I don't think many will agree with you on this one, least of all Jim Benning.

 

[haohmaru]

Vegas was a product of an expansion draft, that’s not really a fair example.

As for Islanders, I’d like to believe we’re shooting for more than that.

Deflecting and doesn't answer the question.

You're using outliers (Pittsburgh, with how many top 5 draft picks in how many years and one, arguably two, generational players and Chicago hitting the jackpot on their draft picks) and throwing out words like "window" and speculating about how many years away that will be.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but I'm wondering what qualifies this team, or any team, to be in their "window". Which teams would you say, right now, are in their window? Tampa? Washington? Nashville? Boston? San Jose?

I used Vegas because they kind of fly in the face of the "top 2" homegrown argument

I used the Islanders, not because I aspire the Rangers to be like them, but because they're in a position that nobody foresaw at the beginning of this season. I honestly don't think their cast of characters is all that much better than ours.

 

[Ola]

@KreiderBomb- I think you raise many valid concerns.

The longer we cannot compete on the ice, the more bad habits we will get. The more pressured our kids will be. This guy only has x pts in y games, is he a bust? That guy only has... And so forth. The players will not learn to play the right way.

But what should we do about it? From my POV, Gorton must keep making — value-generating — moves. Win trades. Sign good contracts. Find reclamation projects. UDFAs. Draft well. Gets pick at a price less than what they are worth.

The UFA market has historically been everything except a market offering value-generating moves. There are talks about discounts left and right regarding some guys, but how much discounts do we really see? And what are the marginals really?

So few teams have maneuverability. Gorts has some — not unlimited — cap space his barns are filling up really fast. Gorts should be a buyer on the trade market for assets with more years left in them and that can be had cheap.

 

[Ola]

I don't think many will agree with you on this one, least of all Jim Benning.

Why? Lias had much stronger WJCs than QH, a gold from the WCHs, a SHL gold etc.

I think Lias development after the draft has been a bit more impressive than QHs?

 

[egelband]

For $11 million and the back end of that contract, he better come with a the ability to edit players EA sports style.

I wouldn't do it for $11 million. And maybe that's his demand and I'd walk away. In fact with this cap, I think Lundqvist money is the max you go with anyone that's not a legit franchise player. (And I think everyone agrees Panarin - while excellent - is not a franchise player; He's a Robin on a contending team).

 

[egelband]

You can't expect players to want to stay involved in a dumpster fire forever. This team needs to start moving in an upward trend next year or management has failed miserably. I'm not talking about competing for a cup or anything but playing meaningful games this time of year. There is no way their plan is to bottom feed for 2 more years, ..the players will tune out, check out and leave here. I mean does Kravtsov even want to come here next year, what about shestyerkin? They don't have to, and if it's between getting your butt handed to you nightly for league minimum or playing at home for KHL money then they may pick the latter. College free agents, ufa, rfa players and our own players playing overseas have to see some light at the end of the tunnel to wanna come here. I'm 100% sure they didnt tell Quinn we will be bad for his first 5 years here, he wouldn't have left where he was. If you wanna complain about who we picked fine, but this thing cant linger on forever or your players lose the will to compete, you can already see it happening now as this year drags on. I like Gorton but if he can not turn this ship in the right direction next year, he will be fighting for his job the following year and there is nothing more dangerous than a GM fighting for his job

I think they've got another year grace but I agree with the premise. Bets are off if this team sucks for another two or three years. I imagine Gorton sold upper management on the upward match starting in 2020-2021. If not earlier.

 

[Jaromir Jagr]

You can't expect players to want to stay involved in a dumpster fire forever. This team needs to start moving in an upward trend next year or management has failed miserably. I'm not talking about competing for a cup or anything but playing meaningful games this time of year. There is no way their plan is to bottom feed for 2 more years, ..the players will tune out, check out and leave here. I mean does Kravtsov even want to come here next year, what about shestyerkin? They don't have to, and if it's between getting your butt handed to you nightly for league minimum or playing at home for KHL money then they may pick the latter. College free agents, ufa, rfa players and our own players playing overseas have to see some light at the end of the tunnel to wanna come here. I'm 100% sure they didnt tell Quinn we will be bad for his first 5 years here, he wouldn't have left where he was. If you wanna complain about who we picked fine, but this thing cant linger on forever or your players lose the will to compete, you can already see it happening now as this year drags on. I like Gorton but if he can not turn this ship in the right direction next year, he will be fighting for his job the following year and there is nothing more dangerous than a GM fighting for his job

I think you severely underestimate the allure of playing at MSG in New York City. Players will always want to come to NYC. I live in Europe and after living for the first 27 years of my life in New York, it is ridiculously shocking to me, with all its faults, how it is some kind of dream destination for a huge amount of the populations.

Also, we are literally 1 calendar year from the beginning of a rebuild. Anyone who expected to see results this quickly was just kidding themselves. This is a process and even if we bottom out again next year, it's hardly reflective of management. I would say the season after that is an important barometer for determining where we're at and if we don't see improvement and signs from some of our current/upcoming prospects, then we can begin to talk about he serious issue at hand.

 

[haohmaru]

I think they've got another year grace but I agree with the premise. Bets are off if this team sucks for another two or three years. I imagine Gorton sold upper management on the upward match starting in 2020-2021. If not earlier.

And that's the thing that makes predictions beyond that a bit suspect. Like it or not, this franchise's history shows anything other than patience in building a competitive team. All of those empty seats and unsold tickets aren't going unnoticed and I seriously doubt the higher-ups are think that 2023, or later, is an acceptable target to be a contender.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

I don't think many will agree with you on this one, least of all Jim Benning.

PPG at the World Juniors
Winning gold at the Worlds

Aside from that, it's difficult to compare Quinn Hughes to Lias Andersson because one plays college hockey against kids, while the other played hockey in 3 of the top-5 leagues in the world since being drafted

 

[Graves94]

PPG at the World Juniors
Winning gold at the Worlds

Aside from that, it's difficult to compare Quinn Hughes to Lias Andersson because one plays college hockey against kids, while the other played hockey in 3 of the top-5 leagues in the world since being drafted

Not to mention that Lias centered EP at the WJC. On the other hand, the Canucks already have a Lias type of player in Horvat.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

I think you severely underestimate the allure of playing at MSG in New York City. Players will always want to come to NYC. I live in Europe and after living for the first 27 years of my life in New York, it is ridiculously shocking to me, with all its faults, how it is some kind of dream destination for a huge amount of the populations.

Also, we are literally 1 calendar year from the beginning of a rebuild. Anyone who expected to see results this quickly was just kidding themselves. This is a process and even if we bottom out again next year, it's hardly reflective of management. I would say the season after that is an important barometer for determining where we're at and if we don't see improvement and signs from some of our current/upcoming prospects, then we can begin to talk about he serious issue at hand.

I realize we publicly stated the rebuild started last spring but it started before that. The Stepan trade signalled the start of building up our prospect pool. People love NY that's true, but they also love other places with good hockey teams, Toronto, Tampa, Nashville and Vegas all come to mind. We got the Brad Richard's type players because it was NY with a good hockey team, there is no way Brad Richard's would sign with this team in the same situation. There is no reason after 3 years of multiple first rounders that we cant add a star winger as a buffer to the young players.

 

[Blue Blooded]

PPG at the World Juniors
Winning gold at the Worlds

Aside from that, it's difficult to compare Quinn Hughes to Lias Andersson because one plays college hockey against kids, while the other played hockey in 3 of the top-5 leagues in the world since being drafted

I still like Lias a ton as a prospect, probably still more than most, but we're kidding ourselves if we think we can get Quinn Hughes straight up for him. Quinn's rep around the league (deservedly or not) is sky high.

 

[Ola]

I don't think he makes even that big a difference. 1 player is not making a bottom 3 team into a bottom 10 or 12 level team. Making that type of monetary commitment isn't smart for the Rangers at present.

Which means they sign Panarin for 13 million this summer. Lol

Exactly.

And like an unbalanced team should in theory at least be able to get a big boost from one player. Like look at Colorado, couldn’t they get a big boost from a really good center? Malkin? Probably.

You need at least three strong lines, capable Ds for at least 45 minutes a night. A PP and a PK. If you have a team with a number of those things but not all — sure, one guy could have a big impact.

But just adding a good player, that doesn’t give you something fundamental that you haven’t had, the impact of that guy can be much smaller.

I am not sure if Panarin and Ziba are a great fit together, Ziba is pretty N-S in his style. Chytil is the same. Panarin would of course help us a lot, but I am not sure if he has a major impact.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

I still like Lias a ton as a prospect, probably still more than most, but we're kidding ourselves if we think we can get Quinn Hughes straight up for him. Quinn's rep around the league (deservedly or not) is sky high.

There's not really anything to indicate Lias' value has dropped since he was drafted. A lot of people criticize him for not playing in the NHL but aside from Chytil and Mittelstadt, no one drafted after him has a significantly bigger role in the NHL right now. His production in the AHL puts him ahead of guys who are considered blue-chip prospects (Tolvanen, Necas, Kostin, A. Nylander, Kapanen, Gurianov). I think we get carried away a bit when it comes to criticizing Lias at times. Quinn Hughes is a great prospect, but I don't see how he's that much more valuable than other blue-chip prospects. And Lias is definitely a blue-chip prospect

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

There's not really anything to indicate Lias' value has dropped since he was drafted. A lot of people criticize him for not playing in the NHL but aside from Chytil and Mittelstadt, no one drafted after him has a significantly bigger role in the NHL right now. His production in the AHL puts him ahead of guys who are considered blue-chip prospects (Tolvanen, Necas, Kostin, A. Nylander, Kapanen, Gurianov). I think we get carried away a bit when it comes to criticizing Lias at times. Quinn Hughes is a great prospect, but I don't see how he's that much more valuable than other blue-chip prospects. And Lias is definitely a blue-chip prospect

I don’t think this has anything to do with Lias’ value dropping, and more to do with Hughes being at worst a top 5 prospect in the world

 

[Irishguy42]