Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XXXIII

[BklynTerp]

Unfortunately, I don't see much room to meet in the middle.

I think there is plenty of room to meet in the middle. Realistically we are asking people to "give up" one more season of contending to continue to build our assets. I have no interest in watching the Rangers suck for a long but after basically a decade of regular season success and memorable postseason runs, I can absolutely swallow two seasons of poor play. It was pretty easy to watch these games with a different lens of seeing the young players progress and the coach for this next era establish the teams identity.

You've started the process and are out in the deep end with it, lets finish the lap instead of turning around now to tread water at 6 feet where its more comfortable

 

[Heckler81]

I’m all for signing Panarin.

I think a first line of Kreider-Mika-Panarin is probably one of the top 1st lines in the league.

I also think that we have great depth on the 3rd and 4th lines. I like Lemieux-Howden-Chytil 3rd line. They are young, physical, and could put up pints.

What do we Do with the 2nd line? We have Names, Vesey, and Buch.

I would probably trade Names and sign Hayes and have a Vesey-Hayes-Buch 2nd line.

Defense still needs some work.

 

[TheTakedown]

There seems to be a sentiment going around Rangers twitter that the Rangers medical staff is bad because guys have played through injuries.

That's not an issue related to the Rangers medical staff, that's just hockey culture. I'm not saying it's right, but that's how hockey players are. If they can play, even if they're at 75% then they want to play.

The Rangers medical staff is regarded very highly in the league for good reason. The Rangers are among the least man games lost to injuries teams in the league.

And to people saying "it doesn't matter because it's a lost season, why not just sit out" - you think Jesper Fast or Chris Kreider care that it's a lost season? They're only going to get so many years in this league, we expect them not play through something that they would play through if the team were higher in the standings? That's not how these guys are wired. If it were a serious injury, they'd be out.

It's that old hockey adage "are you hurt or injured?" There are some things you play through (hurt) and some things that will keep you out (injured).

I'm not sure why all of the sudden people seem to think hockey culture of playing through injuries is all of the sudden an indictment against the Rangers medical staff.

I'll further the bold even more, would you WANT those guys on your team if they were all "oh my leg hurts, we suck ass this year, I am gunna have the coach scratch me"? Probably not. Managers want employees that go out of the way and go the extra mile, even if its at the employees expense. Same thing with these guys

 

[TheTakedown]

I'd be okay with a Kreider trade if the return is a top10 pick or a blue chip prospect. Similar value to Stone

Yeah, it has to be that otherwise I resign him to a $6x6 deal

 

[TheBloodyNine]

Defense still needs some work.

Gee ya think? Maybe we should focus on that instead of signing Panarin.

 

[gravey9]

There really is no summer plan until we know where we land in the draft lottery. If we get Hughes, it's a different plan than if we get Byram, Turcotte or Cozens. If we get Hughes or Kakko, it's possible the process gets accelerated. Then I could see the Rangers holding Kreider. I can see Panarin. I can see them trying to move up in the first round and focusing on adding one higher end talent as opposed to multiple late first and early seconds. But, if we're looking at Byram, then THAT'S a very different plan. We would still need to add 2-3 high end forward prospects. And they would all be at least 1-2 years away, if not more. And the guarantee they develop into a top 3/top 2 let alone elite skater is not as assured. My guess is the Rangers have about 3-4 plans for this summer. A lot will depend on draft lottery.

 

[Edge]

Yeah, it has to be that otherwise I resign him to a $6x6 deal

People keep floating the 6x6 number out there, and based on the Stone and Kane contracts, I don't think that's what we're looking at.

What if the deal is closer to $8 million+ for 6?

 

[Off Sides]

I'm in the rebuild camp.

I think the 2017-2020 drafts are going to make or break the next ten years or so.

I'm keen on keeping, the prospects, the entry levels, and Lemieux, ADA, Buch, Georgiev, Zbad.

Everyone else is on the table. If any deals come up which can return a higher ceiling prospect, or a pick that could be used on such, even if by moving up, I'd be all ears.

 

[East Coast Bias]

It's kinda funny that some people are so laser focused on breaking this down to be as awful as possible to get that top pick, cause f*** everything in between - THAT is the blueprint to success, while we're battling for the 6th position with McDavid, Petterson and Eichel.

(No I don't think we should sign EK & Panarin or stop rebuilding before people start crying. It's just funny)

 

[Edge]

It's kinda funny that some people are so laser focused on breaking this down to be as awful as possible to get that top pick, cause **** everything in between - THAT is the blueprint to success, while we're battling for the 6th position with McDavid, Petterson and Eichel.

(No I don't think we should sign EK & Panarin or stop rebuilding before people start crying. It's just funny)

I think Kreider comes up because we're looking at a higher salary and a longer contract on the horizon. So if you're committing to Kreider, you're really committing to him.

With regards to Zibanejad, I think it's the opposite. He's signed long-term to a great contract, and whether he's a first line center or a second line center, he's got a spot here.

The only question with Zibanejad, and it's one that should at least be mentioned, is that his movement clause kicks in after this season. He has missed significant time over the last couple of years and so there's inherently going to be some thought that this is an opportunity to sell high.

We hear those two because of the value of they have, but also because their contract situation will be significantly different in 12 months than it is now. So a decision has to be made, and we have to comfortable with the consequences for a longer period of time, with less room to make a maneuver.

 

[Edge]

No.

Stepan is declining. McD rebounded in Tampa(I dont think he does here), Hayes would be the 3C and probably doesnt have a single season like the one hes having now..

It's funny with McD, but rebound isn't the word that comes to mind for me.

I think he's basically what he was in 2017, he's just not expecting to be a number one defenseman and he can blend in a lot better.

There's not expectation for him to score 15 goals, or take the next step to 50 points, or play 25 minutes a night. He's not chasing down the ghosts of what could've been, and looked like it was going to be back in 2014.

He can produce at a 10 goal, 40 point pace, play 21 or 22 mins, and not inherently have to go up against the other team's best players.

Tampa and him are a good fit for each other.

 

[FIRE DRURY]

There really is no summer plan until we know where we land in the draft lottery. If we get Hughes, it's a different plan than if we get Byram, Turcotte or Cozens. If we get Hughes or Kakko, it's possible the process gets accelerated.

I could be wrong but I don’t think our draft position will have much of an impact with the direction Gorton goes this or even next offseason.

 

[FIRE DRURY]

People keep floating the 6x6 number out there, and based on the Stone and Kane contracts, I don't think that's what we're looking at.

What if the deal is closer to $8 million+ for 6?

Whether it’s 6.5 or 8, if there’s a pick available for him in the mid-teens Is like to see Gorton jump on that.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

I think 7x7 is a pretty obvious outcome for the Kreider negotiations. Same deal as Kane.

 

[True Blue]

I’m all for signing Panarin.

I think a first line of Kreider-Mika-Panarin is probably one of the top 1st lines in the league.

I also think that we have great depth on the 3rd and 4th lines. I like Lemieux-Howden-Chytil 3rd line. They are young, physical, and could put up pints.

What do we Do with the 2nd line? We have Names, Vesey, and Buch.

And where does that get you next year?

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

I think 7x7 is a pretty obvious outcome for the Kreider negotiations. Same deal as Kane.

That Kane deal has almost no trade protection though (has a 3 team NTC).

I think it will be used as a reference point for sure, but if he wants more trade protection than that I'd like to see it come in under 7 AAV. He might be okay with 6.5x6 with more trade protection.

Kane was also 27 when the 7 year deal began. Kreider will be 29.

That needs to gets factored in.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

That Kane deal has almost no trade protection though (has a 3 team NTC).

I think it will be used as a reference point for sure, but if he wants more trade protection than that I'd like to see it come in under 7 AAV. He might be okay with 6.5x6 with more trade protection.

Kane was also 27 when the 7 year deal began. Kreider will be 29.

That needs to gets factored in.

Also consider the fact that Kane came with baggage whereas Kreider has been a consummate professional since he came into the league.

 

[duhmetreE]

That Kane deal has almost no trade protection though (has a 3 team NTC).

I think it will be used as a reference point for sure, but if he wants more trade protection than that I'd like to see it come in under 7 AAV. He might be okay with 6.5x6 with more trade protection.

Kane was also 27 when the 7 year deal began. Kreider will be 29.

That needs to gets factored in.

Along with some degree of a 'hometown discount', he's not a UFA on his 3rd team. He's older.... and funny enough, in a lower tax state.

He could demand more money but it doesn't mean he will. Same reason a player like Marchand signed well below what he would have received as a UFA.

 

[effen]

People keep floating the 6x6 number out there, and based on the Stone and Kane contracts, I don't think that's what we're looking at.

What if the deal is closer to $8 million+ for 6?

Narrator: It's closer to $8 million.

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

Along with some degree of a 'hometown discount', he's not a UFA on his 3rd team. He's older.... and funny enough, in a lower tax state.

He could demand more money but it doesn't mean he will. Same reason a player like Marchand signed well below what he would have received as a UFA.

Yeah I mean I look at it like this too. I think if the Rangers are willing to go 6 or 7 years in term I think the AAV will be lower than people expect.

Now if Kreider wants to demand top dollar and leave in UFA to seek that, he could probably command near 8m AAV for 6 or 7 years. But that doesn't mean that's how this will go.

 

[FireGerardGallant]

Gutsy move?

Brady Skjei
Lias Andersson

for

Quinn Hughes
Jake Virtanen

Why does Vancouver do that

 

[Mikos87]

Just speculation by Friedman: But he thinks Karlsson would love playing for the Rangers.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Just speculation by Friedman: But he thinks Karlsson would love playing for the Rangers.

So do I.

I think he stays in San Jose. If he does make it to UFA, I think he, not Panarin has the best shot of ending up here.

He’s a riskier proposition, but one that makes a ton more sense.

Part of me would love to see him here, I love the player. The more rational part of me knows that committing the money and term he would require is a massive, massive risk and unnecessary.

 

[Jaromir Jagr]

I think there is plenty of room to meet in the middle. Realistically we are asking people to "give up" one more season of contending to continue to build our assets. I have no interest in watching the Rangers suck for a long but after basically a decade of regular season success and memorable postseason runs, I can absolutely swallow two seasons of poor play. It was pretty easy to watch these games with a different lens of seeing the young players progress and the coach for this next era establish the teams identity.

You've started the process and are out in the deep end with it, lets finish the lap instead of turning around now to tread water at 6 feet where its more comfortable

I'm totally in agreement with you in terms of the logic presented regarding the direction of the team.

That being said, the reaction to myself and others who continuously advocate for such a direction makes it quite obvious that the other side doesn't see it this way.

My overall point is, I will never agree to bringing a Panarin, etc., in here, but those guys will continuously advocate for it no matter what. This is simplifying the context enormously, but where can you meet in the middle? I fail to see it. To me, those people are wanting to head down a path that results in another decade of mediocrity, whereas they are only willing to believe that if we take my (our) path, we will inevitably end up like the Sabres or Edmonton.

I believe logic is on our side. And the plan you support is a million times more attractive to me. But the ones who support 'camp 2' are never going to agree with the concept of burning it down.

The good news here is, Gorton has shown every sign of seeing the plan through, so it seems the most important person when it comes to this process agrees with our vision.

 

[GAGLine]

Just speculation by Friedman: But he thinks Karlsson would love playing for the Rangers.

So would I, but they aren't signing me either