Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XXXIII

[Amazing Kreiderman]

It kinda is.

Why else would you bring up Stones value if not to imply that Kreider would get same value? Let's be more realistic when you name drop other players. Kreider will never return what Stone got.

I didn't say that Kreider is definitely worth the same as Stone, but that's what I'd be happy with. Kreider isn't a player we have to trade. That should give Gorton the freedom to wait a bit more and get more value for him.

 

[Edge]

I re-sign Kreider for 6.5x6 before I trade him for a mid first rounder.

I think the funny thing is that a lot of the prospects that we want, but can't get in trades, the ones we refer to blue chippers, are the players taken in the first round --- and often in the top 20. From Tampa to Winnipeg to Nashville to Toronto to Boston, there's a decent list of guys taken with the picks that we're hesitant to accept as the return for someone like Kreider.

The reality is that not many teams are trading blue chip prospects. And if they are, I don't think they're doing it for Chris Kreider.

So if we want to increase our odds of having more of those prospects that we target in other organizations, it comes down to having picks. Otherwise we potentially get caught in a catch-22 where we can't land the prospects we like after they've been drafted, but we don't want the picks to try and land someone similar.

So if we're moving Kreider, it's going to be for a pick --- and the higher end return would be a mid-first. The question for the Rangers is what is Kreider worth to them now and through the mid-point of the next decade.

Of course that question also comes down to the asking price --- and it will likely include a NMC. Because that's what Kreider will be able to command in 15 months.

As for the dollars and years, I'm not really sure what the ask will be. But I think we might be looking at significantly more than 6.5 x 6.

 

[apoptygma]

A lot of these blue chip prospects we want for Kreider is former picks in the 10-62 range.
I doubt we can get a prospect that was picked that range and is now overperforming for Kreider.
On the other side we should get a number of "tickets" to get that blue chip prospect for Kreider.
Get a mid-first round pick and a third rounder, and a second that becomes a 1. if he resigns.

We are all very happy with the progress of Lundkvist and Miller. Getting a couple more of them is our best bet to find a "building block" in a Kreider deal.
Though, it all depends on our confidence in our scouting department. Last years 1. round look great, the goalie pick in the 2. round makes us all wonder.

During this rebuilt some of our higher picks will bust, nobody bats 1.000 on drafting. But work those odds so we will find our home run or atleast some decent hits.

 

[SA16]

I see why it was interpreted this way but I understood it to be more of a "I am only trading Kreider if we get a return similar to Stone". Essentially, over payment or bust.

I don't really see the leverage to do that since if he's not traded before the season starts he is most likely going to be traded for a worse package at the deadline. I don't think signing him to a 7 or 8 year deal is going to be a wise move.

 

[Gardner McKay]

I don't really see the leverage to do that since if he's not traded before the season starts he is most likely going to be traded for a worse package at the deadline. I don't think signing him to a 7 or 8 year deal is going to be a wise move.

Okay. So you don't trade him.

 

[haohmaru]

Trade Kreider for a better return than Hayes.

Sign Panarin.

So you've replaced Kreider with a better player at a similar age, + a 1st, and a prospect + whatever else is thrown in. Another pick for the 2020 draft that's supposed to be really good.

We've got the cap space and Panarin is young enough that when the Rangers are competing again in a couple of years he'll still be elite at his position.

 

[RangerBoy]

Senior center Nick Jones signed a two-year, one-way deal with the Hartford Wolf Pack in the AHL, according to Herald sources. His contract will start immediately. Hartford is the top minor-league affiliate of the New York Rangers.

 

[Thirty One]

Cup is ours.

 

[Irishguy42]

Cup is ours.

Kelly Cup, maybe

 

[RGY]

“Top Minor League Affiliate of the Rangers”

As if we would sign someone to go play in the ECHL....its bad enough we have Hartford to offer them.

 

[bobbop]

The Rangers have five very loseable games in a row coming up. Clearly making our move.

Sigh...

 

[bobbop]

Jones right hand shot. Unusual career path: college, BCHL, college. Had better stats two years ago. Anyone have eyes on him?

 

[Edge]

The Rangers have five very loseable games in a row coming up. Clearly making our move.

Sigh...

It's exciting and depressing at the same time.

 

[Ghost of jas]

“Top Minor League Affiliate of the Rangers”

As if we would sign someone to go play in the ECHL....its bad enough we have Hartford to offer them.

‘Top’ is a relative term in this case.

 

[bobbop]

More on Nick Jones

UND's Nick Jones, Hayden Shaw sign pro deals

 

[Edge]

I’ve seen him a few times over the last two years. Don’t remember seeing him with Ohio State.

Decent enough college player. I noticed the hussle and his work created some turnovers and chances, but I didn’t see any particular skills that stood out.

 

[Beacon]

Need to finish off the rebuilding by trading away Kreider for picks and prospects. The Rangers most certainly wont be good until they clear the cap of the contracts given to Hank, Staal, Smith, Shatty. By then Kreider is on the wrong side of 30, and it is unlikely the team competes for the Cup by 2021-22.

Kreider brings back a better package than Nash or Hayes, but worse than McDonaugh. A first, a third, a Lindgren-type prospect, a Lemieux-type young player.

Staal and Smith will likely have some value st the TDL because they'll have just 1 year of term left. A third for each, maybe a second of they have a good season.

Shatty probably brings back a second and a youngish role player.

Names for a second or third, depending on his season.

MZA already got them a third (maybe a first) in 2020.

So a pair of firsts, then 8 picks in rounds 2 and 3 (including our own) in 2020, plus a couple of prospects and/or young players.

Having so many picks allows the team to go for high risk, high return draftees and not be scared that they will get nothing from the draft.

 

[egelband]

I think the decision is more elementary than that on Kreider. Before we get to money, I need to know if he is ever going to be more than an inconsistent winger with elite athletic ability. I'm concerned he has never put it all together and he fell off again. He's 28, I can't tell myself any more that he is a leader, a night in, night out performer. He's not a 30 goal scorer, not a 60 pt wing. A lot of people bought into him turning a corner when his first half was great. I wanted to wait to get the full picture before I was convinced.

I like Kreider and I want a home grown player to be the guy, but I'm getting more and more into the camp that his greatest value for us would be in a trade. 6 x $6.5m is a good and fair deal, but that doesn't mean that is the best course of action going forward.

I think he will be getting more than that but if he would take that deal is definitely give him that.

 

[Ola]

There have been some talk about how Quinn coaches to win too much despite we being a rebuilding team and so forth.

Maybe some deployments can be questioned.

But if we like look at how we played last night, that is far from how a team — with our roster — would have played if the points were crucial for us. We play a very opportunistic style of hockey.

 

[NYR Viper]

Shattenkirk is among the league leaders in assists since mid-February. He is finally getting more healthy. At least that's the way the Rangers should 'sell' him to other teams. Trade him this off-season. Retain if you must.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

There have been some talk about how Quinn coaches to win too much despite we being a rebuilding team and so forth.

Maybe some deployments can be questioned.

But if we like look at how we played last night, that is far from how a team — with our roster — would have played if the points were crucial for us. We play a very opportunistic style of hockey.

Well they finally waived the white flag with the call ups and moving the young guys to the middle.

You’re kidding yourself if you don’t think Quinn was trying to win games before this though. Look at how heavily he leaned on our top guys prior to yesterday.

 

[egelband]

So did Stralman, he had an issue that was derailing his career and possibly his life. Columbus, Toronto and New Jersey medical staffs all failed to diagnose the problem.

The Rangers staff figured it out and his career took off from there.

Stint with Rangers gave Lightning's Stralman a career

Amazing. Great story. Thanks.

 

[Vinny DeAngelo]

Shattenkirk is among the league leaders in assists since mid-February. He is finally getting more healthy. At least that's the way the Rangers should 'sell' him to other teams. Trade him this off-season. Retain if you must.

more healthy from the injury that he suffered last december(no september)[no in camp]{no he has a genetic issue from birth}???

 

[Ola]

Shattenkirk is among the league leaders in assists since mid-February. He is finally getting more healthy. At least that's the way the Rangers should 'sell' him to other teams. Trade him this off-season. Retain if you must.

Shatty is very good from the blueline and in, that has always been his forte. The game is more mobile and dynamic now that it was 5 years ago, that is what is holding him back. He is what 29, its not like he is a shell of his former self physically.

Really hope we can find a taker this off-season.

 

[NYR Viper]

more healthy from the injury that he suffered last december(no september)[no in camp]{no he has a genetic issue from birth}???

He had major knee surgery and didn't play the entire second half of the season last year. It hindered some of his training I am sure this past summer as he needed to do PT in lieu of pure hockey and strength training. Some of these injuries take years for the players to catch back up physically. It's not like they can work out during the year so if you miss out on 2-3 weeks of training in the off-season that can hinder an entire year of playing.