Speculation: Roster Building Thread - Part XXXI

[jay from jersey]

Move Trouba and promote Schneider.

Think it’s too early to depend on Schneider to give you that 20+ minutes a night plus Pk/physical play.
Especially if you pair him with another young guy ( Miller) who also has growing pains.
You’re not really putting the kid in the position to succeed.
Especially if you want the team to maybe make a run of it in the playoffs over the next 2-3 seasons with prime Kreids/Zibby/panarin and possibly shesty. At least at his current cap hit

 

[Ned Braden]

But Lafreniere has 8 goals 5 on 5 playing on a lower line and less minutes.

I'm not saying Kreider isn't producing but his major value is PP time.

And I'm saying breaking up the kid line - and putting Lafreniere with someone who can feed him and build his confidence - may increase his own production, and Kreider may be able to help Chytil because clearly Laf and him aren't mixing. It may be better all around.

Frankly at 5 on 5 the Kreider - Zibanejad pairing just isn't great. It's ok, but it's not some amazing top line. You know what might be amazing and unstoppable? Panarin-Zibanejad.

There's just no real reason not to try Kreider elsewhere.

Kreider-Zib-Kakko is a high-end defensive line. They are being used to shut down other team's top lines and doing a really good job of it. This line should not be broken up.

 

[jay from jersey]

Yes, he said flat out the Rangers preferred the Blais and a second deal and passed on the Kupari and a first deal.

Because they are grit-obsessed idiots who don't understand what actually wins in the league (quality center depth!).



Blais isn't helping this team at all right now cause he's hurt, and that is unarguably OBJECTIVE. Obviously there is no projecting a season-ending injury but the point is, what he brings is unnecessary for a team that also has Goodrow, Hunt, Reaves, etc, and our run right now is proving it. And the Hunts and Reaves of the world are available in literally every free agent class.

I project that Kupari is eventually a solid top 6 center. Not a first line center but probably a good second liner capable of 50-ish points.

If the Rangers plan to be a wing-driven team in the future (as a team with Kakko, Lafreniere, and Kravtsov could reasonably claim to be planning for) then having a center or two of Kupari's skill level is still infinitely valuable as it means you are guaranteeing solid center play with your production-driving wingers.

So yes Kupari and his 7 points was way better.



And I'll reiterate that I'm not bitching just to bitch about Buch. The problem is we are short two future top 6 center types and now also a top 6 RW. We had opportunities to address it and failed.

So as the franchise sits here right now the team needs some young forwards. I am compelled to advocate for ways to get those pieces, and pointing out the past opportunities is instructive for how we can obtain these pieces moving forward.

there’s no way LA was offering the 8OA and Kupari for Buch.
Edge reported it. But there’s no evidence of any stipulations on the pick, or if LA pulled the offer when they could get Arvidsson cheaper.
I have no doubt Drury targeted Blais, and I still maintain we haven’t seen the best Blais has to offer for NYR.
But I highly doubt any top 10 pick was offered for Buch needing a new contract.
Blais was not solely a toughness/physical addition. He’s a lot cheaper then buch, and while adding that element also has a good set of hands. There was significant runway for him to improve his point totals here with more talent.
His health was always the main concern, which is a blessings and a curse this year. Subban being terribad with his slew foot means we’ll likely retain Blais for a lot cheaper while tight up against the cap the next 2 seasons.
The rangers were in the mix for eichel, tried like hell to trade up for Zergas, and likely Lundell as well. And offered kreider straight up for the Newhook pick.
That’s what we know of...
The need off getting a young 2C is high up on the list of priorities. But some things fell thru, and others just never materialized.
I expect it’s still high up on the importance factor, as was changing the culture, adding some leadership and gritty 2-way players to build on what they currently have already. I expect they will revisit it in the offseason

 

[egelband]

there’s no way LA was offering the 8OA and Kupari for Buch.
Edge reported it. But there’s no evidence of any stipulations on the pick, or if LA pulled the offer when they could get Arvidsson cheaper.
I have no doubt Drury targeted Blais, and I still maintain we haven’t seen the best Blais has to offer for NYR.
But I highly doubt any top 10 pick was offered for Buch needing a new contract

I wonder if that LA offer - or some version of it - came before the trade deadline. The rangers probably could have gotten more for Buch then. But they decided to make a run with Buch, which obviously didn’t materialize, and we’re stuck with taking the best offer over the summer.

 

[jay from jersey]

I wonder if that LA offer - or some version of it - came before the trade deadline. The rangers probably could have gotten more for Buch then. But they decided to make a run with Buch, which obviously didn’t materialize, and we’re stuck with taking the best offer over the summer.

Yea, hard to believe they’d deal him in a playoff race.
You also don’t know what kind of season he’d have here.
Buch is playing well no doubt, but he’s also benefited from Tarashekos resurgence, chemistry with 2 Russians, and the ROR line taking on teams 1 D pairings

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

there’s no way LA was offering the 8OA and Kupari for Buch.
Edge reported it. But there’s no evidence of any stipulations on the pick, or if LA pulled the offer when they could get Arvidsson cheaper.
I have no doubt Drury targeted Blais, and I still maintain we haven’t seen the best Blais has to offer for NYR.
But I highly doubt any top 10 pick was offered for Buch needing a new contract.
Blais was not solely a toughness/physical addition. He’s a lot cheaper then buch, and while adding that element also has a good set of hands. There was significant runway for him to improve his point totals here with more talent.
His health was always the main concern, which is a blessings and a curse this year. Subban being terribad with his slew foot means we’ll likely retain Blais for a lot cheaper while tight up against the cap the next 2 seasons.
The rangers were in the mix for eichel, tried like hell to trade up for Zergas, and likely Lundell as well. And offered kreider straight up for the Newhook pick.
That’s what we know of...
The need off getting a young 2C is high up on the list of priorities. But some things fell thru, and others just never materialized.
I expect it’s still high up on the importance factor, as was changing the culture. I expect they will revisit it in the offseason

Who is talking about 8th overall?

The wording was Kupari + 1st. That doesn't mean a 2021 1st. In the Blais deal we got a 2022 pick so I don't understand why the assumption is that LA would have included a 2021 pick

 

[jay from jersey]

Who is talking about 8th overall?

The wording was Kupari + 1st. That doesn't mean a 2021 1st. In the Blais deal we got a 2022 pick so I don't understand why the assumption is that LA would have included a 2021 pick

that’s what I’m saying. Even if it was a 23 1st, with LA knowing they weren’t a likely playoff contender im betting that pick also had conditions.

when you just say Kupari +1st I want to drive home the fact that no way were they offering a top 10 pick for Buch outright

 

[Ola]

I don't disagree with any of your points but we still give up too many shots and get outshot pretty consistently. It's something this organization has straight up failed to care about year after year and it leads to predictable results.

When you get into the playoffs and so many of the goals are screens and deflections, the team that's shooting more scores more.

You see the bitching and the moaning every time we play a playoff-style game, especially against the Islanders over the last few years. "They're too sawft for this kind of hockey!!!1!" They're not too soft for that kind of hockey; they just don't have the puck enough for that kind of hockey.

They haven't addressed that yet again.

Very good points and I agree 100%. I think especially the Islanders is a great example of this and a team that often is misrepresented. Its a team that has a big N-S element, but fundamentally they play a puck possession game and have for periods done it really well.

 

[Ola]

When analysing the current status of this team, what needs to be done, what perhaps should not be done -- I would take this approach.

(A) Under Quinn and even AV, were we a team that other teams liked to play against? I certainly think so. I think someone like McDavid circled our date in the calendar. No need to get into the reasons for this, they are so well covered, but we had big defensive issues, we were soft and so forth.

(B) This year, are games against us enjoyable for opposing teams? No, I certainly do not think so. Teams are almost never able to blow things open and when we are ahead, nobody seem to really think that they can come back, that 'anything can happen' feeling isn't present.

(C) So what is the difference between the version of this franchise in (A) and (B) that explains the different out come to the question posed in relation to them? Why have we gone from being a team you liked playing against to a team that you don't like playing against? First of all, I think the difference between the teams is significant in this regard, right? Its no slight improvement, its night and day.

As to my point -- how to analyse this team -- I think the answer you find here explains a lot of our success this year. So what is the answer? Well, that can surely be discussed back and forth. It is something that comes from more than a few sources.

But a few things:
-I wouldn't underrate the importance of players having clear roles on the team, and this especially regards guys like Hunt, Rooney, Goodrow, Reeves and co. Its nothing fancy about these guys, they have a very clear job description and goes out and executes it every shift. This means that opposing teams almost never get a break against us.
-We are a bit more cautious and better structured defensively. This enables our Ds to focus more on their core roles. I wouldn't underrate the impact on opposing forwards of playing physical monsters like Trouba and Miller getting proper support defensively enabling them to be aggressive and really engage in 1 on 1 battles.
-I wouldn't underrate the importance of getting 2-3 big hits every game, as compared to maybe 1 every 3 game in the past. Keep your head up. Trouba is on the ice. Reeves is on the ice. Players aren't that used to hearing those warnings like in the past.
-I wouldn't underrate the impact on opposing teams from playing with a 'enough to win is sufficient' mind set -- that is well balanced. Late in periods, we protect leads well and shut things down. Those things.

What does this translates to?
(1) I think it is very important to acknowledge the importance of the first bullet above, clear roles. Take a Hunt of the roster and put in say a Kravtsov, it makes a difference. Not to take anything away at all from the later, a kid being a high draft pick trying to find his role in the league can do what the coach wants, and still feel like he isn't performing since so much focus is on stats.

We have shortages on this team, especially in terms of playing a puck possession game, but I am far from sold on that the solution to them is taking out energy players like Hunt and inserting skill. I would much rather look at Gauthier, even Chytil perhaps, and so forth.

(2) We need to start to appreciate what guys like Trouba brings to this team. Reeves.

(3) I think that we must afford the coach some leeway as regards the team backing down a bit at times, late in periods etc. Hockey is also a game with a lot of mini games in it. Giving up that goal that makes a 2-0 game 2-1 late in the second cost you so much. Perhaps those 2-3 last shifts of a period should be played like its a PK even if its not pretty.

 

[Ola]

Who is talking about 8th overall?

The wording was Kupari + 1st. That doesn't mean a 2021 1st. In the Blais deal we got a 2022 pick so I don't understand why the assumption is that LA would have included a 2021 pick

I don't understand why people assumes its either the 2021 pick or a later pick, it could also have been a former 1st round pick, like say Mike Richard or Dion Phaneuf's contract who still are on the books for LAK!!!

 

[mas0764]

Who is talking about 8th overall?

The wording was Kupari + 1st. That doesn't mean a 2021 1st. In the Blais deal we got a 2022 pick so I don't understand why the assumption is that LA would have included a 2021 pick

And I was not implying that it was a ‘21 pick, probably a ‘22 pick with some protection that became unprotected thereafter.

 

[mas0764]

I don't disagree with any of your points but we still give up too many shots and get outshot pretty consistently. It's something this organization has straight up failed to care about year after year and it leads to predictable results.

When you get into the playoffs and so many of the goals are screens and deflections, the team that's shooting more scores more.

You see the bitching and the moaning every time we play a playoff-style game, especially against the Islanders over the last few years. "They're too sawft for this kind of hockey!!!1!" They're not too soft for that kind of hockey; they just don't have the puck enough for that kind of hockey.

They haven't addressed that yet again.

Which is why they aren’t done adding long term forwards and why the grit mandate was a mistake.

 

[egelband]

And I was not implying that it was a ‘21 pick, probably a ‘22 pick with some protection that became unprotected thereafter.

And that protection could have ended in the pick reverting to their second rounder, anyhow.

 

[mas0764]

Kreider-Zib-Kakko is a high-end defensive line. They are being used to shut down other team's top lines and doing a really good job of it. This line should not be broken up.

I’ll take the stats on this claim now please. Not being good enough at 5 on 5 is one of the reasons the lines should change a bit.

Also Kakko being an elite defensive forward probably has the most to do with this.

 

[mas0764]

And that protection could have ended in the pick reverting to their second rounder, anyhow.

People are throwing a lot of speculation into something that was reported pretty straightforwardly. I don’t think it’s as complicated. It was probably a first with little variance, and being discussed at the same time as the Blais trade, not months earlier.

 

[haohmaru]

Maybe Strome actually develops value once he's under contract long term.

Just don't give him a NTC/NMC.

If you don't offer him that the only long term contract he's signing is with another team.

He's either getting traded or he's signing a deal with, hopefully, a lesser NTC but he's going to get it. Unfortunately, it's a common ask/give at this point.

 

[SA16]

Who is talking about 8th overall?

The wording was Kupari + 1st. That doesn't mean a 2021 1st. In the Blais deal we got a 2022 pick so I don't understand why the assumption is that LA would have included a 2021 pick

Because this is what happens when you have someone come in posting like he knows more than everyone else yet he talks in riddles

 

[mas0764]

Ridiculous series of decisions, eh? Right now Chris Drury might be the GM of the year. You're someone who simply can't admit he was wrong.

If Drury wins it cause of his hiring of Gallant, good for him. It doesn’t change the Buch/Kravtsov series of events which was a fiasco.

 

[haohmaru]

Also Kakko being an elite defensive forward probably has the most to do with this.

20+ ATOI as a forward last night against the team with McDavid and Draisatl. Damned impressive.

 

[mas0764]

If you don't offer him that the only long term contract he's signing is with another team.

He's either getting traded or he's signing a deal with, hopefully, a lesser NTC but he's going to get it. Unfortunately, it's a common ask/give at this point.

I don’t really believe that it’s a must add. There are ways to not give one, or give one that still affords the team the ability to move a player (like a ten team no trade list).

 

[haohmaru]

I don’t really believe that it’s a must add. There are ways to not give one, or give one that still affords the team the ability to move a player (like a ten team no trade list).

He'll ask for it and get it and the ten team no trade-list is the "lesser NTC" that I'd be hopeful for. He's bounced around a bit so I'm fairly certain it'll be a must have for him and his agent. We'll see where it ends up.

 

[duhmetreE]

I don't see him doing it either but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be done.

But if we have to keep Kreider in the top 6 then he should be on the right wing. Sorry Chris. All you do is tip in goals anyway, it's not like we are going to lose his natural playmaking excellence if he's feeling uncomfortable on the opposite wall. Just park his ass down low like he always is.

yeah you're criminally under rating Kreider. He's been winning every single puck battle. getting to all the loose pucks and setting up a lot of high danger chances..

His usefulness can't be determined just on stats. He tilts the ice for the team and does a lot of the grunt work

 

[duhmetreE]

IF they re-sign Strome... I'd still look to LAK... I still believe Turcotte can be a Center and play the young Cirelli role to start.

 

[leetch99]

I think we're closing in on the inevitable now.... I see Strome being re-signed

Chytil is arguably the worst top9 center in the league right now.

Joe and Sam certainly blowing Strome doll up last night...the glue in the room ! They were laying it on pretty thick. If they do resign him....they better not have a bunch of restrictions with a deal. The Rangers gonna do what they do...

 

[RGY]

I said it last night and I’ll say it again, Chytil can be a career 40-50 point player, but that will be somewhere else. A team that is not a playoff team where he can get top 6 minutes and PP1 time. But again never on a team built to win a cup. Because he is not a player you win with. Doesn’t think the game fast enough. In fact its one of those situations where his legs are faster than he can process the game. He can’t slow the game down without sacrificing areas of his play. He constantly makes incorrect, and frankly dumb decisions. 2 examples from last night:

1) 2nd period, puck is dumped in behind the net where Koskinen goes to retrieve. Chytil is nowhere close to being able to get in deep and apply pressure. He goes in deep anyway. Puck is already gone and moving up the ice and he is now caught behind the play against a fast transitional offensive team. In the period of the long change. Pretty sure the Rangers were making a change at the time. Dumb.

2) 3rd period. Chytil gets the puck in his own end and tries to do is typical coast to coast rush, which maybe works 25% of the time. Most of the time he starts somewhat in the middle of the ice trying to skate through everyone and eventually makes his way to the LW boards as he crosses the blueline, only to get closed off by the defender. Sometimes he gets the puck in, but of course he is out of the play and the momentum of the overall rush slows down. Last night he didn’t get it deep, turned it over in the neutral zone and it led to a good scoring chance. Puck just needed to get deep. Dumb.

These examples happen night in and night out with Chytil. Yeah he makes a nice play here and there, but even when Sam is raving about a backcheck to break up a play, it is usually because he was out of position and recovering. He is not a smart hockey player. He is absolutely not a Center. You hope someone looks at his size, skating, and hockey card stats and thinks there is something there worth giving up value for. You hope no one is scouting him heavily.

The sooner this team can move him for a proven center, obviously in a package, the better.