Speculation: Roster Building Thread - Part XXXI

[duhmetreE]

If only we could get Centers like McDavid and Draistail, we could be as good as Edmonton

 

[mas0764]

I said at the time we made the deal. There was no explanation of why that trade offer didn’t go through either. They may have made it and pulled it or asked for something more. I don’t remember edge ever even saying the NYR turned it down. Do you?

Yes, he said flat out the Rangers preferred the Blais and a second deal and passed on the Kupari and a first deal.

Because they are grit-obsessed idiots who don't understand what actually wins in the league (quality center depth!).

That’s an assumption. Though who knows, maybe they did. The first would be nice but would Kupari and his 7 points help this team more than Blais was? Subjective.

Blais isn't helping this team at all right now cause he's hurt, and that is unarguably OBJECTIVE. Obviously there is no projecting a season-ending injury but the point is, what he brings is unnecessary for a team that also has Goodrow, Hunt, Reaves, etc, and our run right now is proving it. And the Hunts and Reaves of the world are available in literally every free agent class.

I project that Kupari is eventually a solid top 6 center. Not a first line center but probably a good second liner capable of 50-ish points.

If the Rangers plan to be a wing-driven team in the future (as a team with Kakko, Lafreniere, and Kravtsov could reasonably claim to be planning for) then having a center or two of Kupari's skill level is still infinitely valuable as it means you are guaranteeing solid center play with your production-driving wingers.

So yes Kupari and his 7 points was way better.

Regardless, it’s done. That trade can’t be addressed. There’s no resolution. Haha. Sure we can improve the team, and RW, but that particular trade is history. All done. Harp on it as much as makes you happy. It’s all good. But constantly bringing it up is really just flogging a dead horse. I’ll defer from commenting on it in the future. You have your right to vent, buddy.

And I'll reiterate that I'm not bitching just to bitch about Buch. The problem is we are short two future top 6 center types and now also a top 6 RW. We had opportunities to address it and failed.

So as the franchise sits here right now the team needs some young forwards. I am compelled to advocate for ways to get those pieces, and pointing out the past opportunities is instructive for how we can obtain these pieces moving forward.

 

[mas0764]

What’s your plan for his contract?

Move Trouba and promote Schneider.

 

[mas0764]

I asked because I was baiting you into bringing up the Buch trade for the upteenth time. You’re relentless. No one said not to complain or be upset. But that time was in the summer. Its January and youre still bitching about it. I didnt like the trade. Hated it. Absolutely hated it. But it happened.

Well I want to win a Cup and I don't believe we are going to do that until center is addressed adequately. This is like fundamental to what should have been a decade of Rangers dominance that is now in question.

Sorry but I find it infuriating how we have squandered the opportunity to build a team that I could foresee going on a Kings-like run.

It's not too late but we have to address the issue and soon. And it probably means some bandaids have to be ripped off that too many posters are willing to do.

 

[bhamill]

Yes, he said flat out the Rangers preferred the Blais and a second deal and passed on the Kupari and a first deal.

Because they are grit-obsessed idiots who don't understand what actually wins in the league (quality center depth!).



Blais isn't helping this team at all right now cause he's hurt, and that is unarguably OBJECTIVE. Obviously there is no projecting a season-ending injury but the point is, what he brings is unnecessary for a team that also has Goodrow, Hunt, Reaves, etc, and our run right now is proving it. And the Hunts and Reaves of the world are available in literally every free agent class.

I project that Kupari is eventually a solid top 6 center. Not a first line center but probably a good second liner capable of 50-ish points.

If the Rangers plan to be a wing-driven team in the future (as a team with Kakko, Lafreniere, and Kravtsov could reasonably claim to be planning for) then having a center or two of Kupari's skill level is still infinitely valuable as it means you are guaranteeing solid center play with your production-driving wingers.

So yes Kupari and his 7 points was way better.



And I'll reiterate that I'm not bitching just to bitch about Buch. The problem is we are short two future top 6 center types and now also a top 6 RW. We had opportunities to address it and failed.

So as the franchise sits here right now the team needs some young forwards. I am compelled to advocate for ways to get those pieces, and pointing out the past opportunities is instructive for how we can obtain these pieces moving forward.

I don’t remember edge ever saying they chose between those two deals. Just that that offer was made at one point and also that the NYR liked Blais.
So if they got Kupari and he got hurt by a dirty play that would have made it a shitty trade? In 30 games Kupari has 6 points. In 14 games Blais had 4, in addition to his other attributes. Not too many people are high on Kupari regardless of your prediction, including LAK if that was the whole deal, which we do not know. As I said, subjective.

 

[mas0764]

I don’t remember edge ever saying they chose between those two deals.

I do.

So if they got Kupari and he got hurt that would have made it a shitty trade? In 30 games Kupari has 6 points. In 14 games Blais had 4, in addition to his other attributes. Not too many people are high on Kupari regardless of your prediction, including LAK if that was the whole deal, which we do not know. As I said, subjective.

No? Why?

I'm saying we didn't need Blais.

Getting a future player is the value, so I don't care what his production is this year. We aren't getting any production from Blais anyway.

The future center acquisition was the wise usage of Buch.

 

[NYR Viper]

Look on the bright side, at least we have replaced the complaints about the McDonagh trade with complaints about the Buch trade.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Move Trouba and promote Schneider.

NMC until 2024.

 

[Crease]

Can Panarin play the right side? Because Laf needs to stay with Strome.

 

[RGY]

Well I want to win a Cup and I don't believe we are going to do that until center is addressed adequately. This is like fundamental to what should have been a decade of Rangers dominance that is now in question.

Sorry but I find it infuriating how we have squandered the opportunity to build a team that I could foresee going on a Kings-like run.

It's not too late but we have to address the issue and soon. And it probably means some bandaids have to be ripped off that too many posters are willing to do.

I think we still have time. We havent made a bad trade where we overpaid with our young assets. Or traded them too soon. Not even too late. Lias we turned into a Cuylle. Our Prospect cupboard is still deep and its growing/developing.

Lets see where we stand in late February as we get closer to the deadline.

 

[mas0764]

NMC until 2024.

Understood

 

[NYR Viper]

Can Panarin play the right side? Because Laf needs to stay with Strome.

Goodrow needs to stay with Strome. It’s honestly amazing to see Strome not have someone to constantly look for. His vision actually improves as the other team can’t focus on one player.

 

[Crease]

Goodrow needs to stay with Strome. It’s honestly amazing to see Strome not have someone to constantly look for. His vision actually improves as the other team can’t focus on one player.

I’m not opposed to putting Panarin with Chytil for a bit. Might be Chytil’s last look as a Ranger, depending how that goes.

 

[mas0764]

Goodrow needs to stay with Strome. It’s honestly amazing to see Strome not have someone to constantly look for. His vision actually improves as the other team can’t focus on one player.

Panarin - Zibanejad - Kakko
Lafreniere - Strome - Goodrow
Kreider - Chytil - Gauthier

 

[mas0764]

I think we still have time. We havent made a bad trade where we overpaid with our young assets. Or traded them too soon. Not even too late. Lias we turned into a Cuylle. Our Prospect cupboard is still deep and its growing/developing.

Lets see where we stand in late February as we get closer to the deadline.

Well I think the origin of today's big debate was a suggestion of Chytil, Lundkvist and Kravtsov for 29 year old 40 point scorer William f'n Karlsson.

But if we retain those assets yes there is still time to rectify the center position by trading some of those high end pieces for a young center or two to grow with the team.

 

[Chalfdiggity3]

Krieder Zibs Kakko
Panarin chytl goat
Laffy goodrow strome
hunt rooney reaves

 

[RGY]

Well I think the origin of today's big debate was a suggestion of Chytil, Lundkvist and Kravtsov for 29 year old 40 point scorer William f'n Karlsson.

But if we retain those assets yes there is still time to rectify the center position by trading some of those high end pieces for a young center or two to grow with the team.

I like William Karlsson. But I agree, that is a bad trade. We have a better prospect pool than a majority of the league. Us offering one prospect would be better than most teams offering two.

Lets see what teams are in/out of playoff picture when the calendar turns to March. They can likely find a center for the playoff run at a reasonable price.

 

[NYR Viper]

Panarin - Zibanejad - Kakko
Lafreniere - Strome - Goodrow
Kreider - Chytil - Gauthier

This.

 

[mas0764]

Krieder Zibs Kakko
Panarin chytl goat
Laffy goodrow strome
hunt rooney reaves

I don't understand the need to keep Kreider on the top line.

Most of his production is Power Play. He can get that still and free up room for Lafreniere to crack the top 6.

And, just maybe, he'd be a fit with Chytil which Lafreniere definitely is not.

 

[FinRanger]

Kreider Zibanejad Panarin
Lafreniere Goodrow Strome
Kakko Chytil Goat
Hunt Rooney Reaves

Big boy first line unleashed. Kakko and Chytil have chemistry. Second line proved they are good without Panarin as well

 

[rangerfan_79]

First overall in the league does have a nice ring to it. I know other teams have games in hand but that won't stop me from enjoying it just the same.

 

[RGY]

Wish Boston would fall out of the playoff race. They are close to out of the WC spot but they have games in hand on everyone around them. Would be interesting to see what they would do with Bergeron.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

What’s the Rangers offer gonna be for McD at the end of the season

 

[haohmaru]

I'm so tired of hearing how high end prospects are "rolls of the dice," and then watch them go on to be in demand contributors that the same posters will argue "teams won't trade because they are too valuable."

Zegras and Lundell won't be traded because young centers are too valuable, but Kupari is a roll of the dice. Talk out of both sides of mouth to justify the team's blunders and the status quo. Yeah, you have to identify which "rolls of the dice," are good bets to become "too valuable to trade," and then you have to go f***ing get one of them..

Arguing points I haven't made. At all. YOU said "top young centers" and I'm merely pointing out that those that have any kind of resume to fit that definition are prohibitively expensive. If YOU meant to say "top center PROSPECTS" then that's what you should've f***ing said.

Kupari has proven exactly nothing to me to put him in a "top young center" conversation as much as Lafreniere has proven to be a "top young wing". Neither has. The potential is there but people have said the same about Chytil now for years and Buchnevich too far, FAR longer to get to that point in his career. If the Rangers are trading for that guy, it better be that guy NOW and not that guy that finally figures shit out four years from now.

We just saw the exact opposite. You can't be more wrong.
.

We saw an outlier that isn't indicative of a typical NHL trade. We saw a guy that would rather sit then ever play for that organization again with an injury that could not be treated the way that team wanted it to and had to settle for pennies on the dollar. I couldn't be more right. This is as atypical as it gets and certainly not a reference point for future expectations of NHL trades by the Rangers moving forward. It's ridiculous to even argue it and it's not even considering the serious risk involved in that asset.

Of course it's an outlier but it's not like it will never repeat. If you are arguing the Rangers cannot pry MacKinnon out of Colorado with a "shit package," of Chytil, Kravtsov and Lundkvist then yes I agree. On the other hand that package absolutely trumps what Buffalo just got for Eichel.

When the next star is moved, and it happens despite being an "outlier," the Rangers would be wise to have retained the assets so they can pounce instead of wasting them on William Karlsson.

See above. I've never advocated for Karlsson and have already said I'd never trade those four for that guy. Not sure why you keep bringing this up to ME and, as previously stated, those assets will NOT be enough for any proven top NHL center who doesn't have an asterisk next to his name.

The Rangers are winning because they have a Norris winner, one of the top wings in the entire world, and a goaltender playing out of his mind and into the Vezina conversation. In general the Rangers are very average at 5 on 5 and it's a direct result of their lower lines being flat out incapable of generating possession or offense. It's why no one seriously believes they are winning the Cup this year or with this roster as-is. Well, except some of the homers on here who claim "just get in and anything can happen!"

The Rangers are not winning because they over-invested in grit, they are winning because they have elite talent that is maturing into its prime (Fox, Shesterin).

They had those guys last year too, no? I mean, the guys above you say are why they're winning this year? Mmmhmmm. Got it.

Did they over do it in the "grit" department? Oh, probably. But if you don't think that Goodrow, Reaves & co. haven't brought anything to this team then you're just not paying attention. Our fourth line is no longer a throw away shift hoping nothing goes wrong. Goodrow can slot in anywhere in the lineup, wins defensive draws, and is going to have a career year scoring in all likelihood and brings much needed Cup wins into the locker room. The '94 Rangers traded a lot of talent for experience, grit, and clutch play to win a Cup. This team CERTAINLY needed some of that. I certainly haven't been talking about a Cup this year but I get why they targeted some of these players.

And the Rangers' foolish chasing of too much grit by trading Buch for grit and then pushing Kravtsov out has cost them dearly. Meanwhile the grit here that is making any sort of contribution is Hunt (low level free agent signing), Nemeth (low level free agent signing), and Reaves (acquired for a third round pick). Could left Blais in St Louis and traded Buch for something we actually needed.

I'm going to assume that Drury decided over the summer that Buchnevich was going to be moved, Eichel possibly pursued, and chose to go with the best offer on the table this summer even after the Eichel sweepstakes ended. Whatever you believe happened months before that is your prerogative. Buchnevich was either a summer move or a deadline move and I've been pretty vocal about not loving that trade and saying I would've preferred a deadline move as it would've returned more and had little impact on our cap this season.

Allow me to clarify. I'm not suggesting that the Rangers can pry Barkov and his new contract out of Florida for Lundkvist, Chytil, and Kravtsov. Florida loves Barkov and has no interest in moving him.

I'm saying the winds of change affect the various NHL franchises more often than people think and situations arise where you can win a bid for a star player who either wants out or the team wants him out, and those packages are usually no better than Lundkvist, Chytil, Kravstov, and a first, and in fact many times they are worse (see Eichel trade, which was much worse and just happened).

In the absence of that, the Rangers also have opportunities to grab talent that isn't a "top young center," just yet but is instead just a young center with potential who the team projects to be "top," someday - situations like this include Buch-f0r-8OA (Zegras) in 2019, Buch for Kupari and a first just this offseason, or trading up in the draft. At some point you might be able to make a hockey trade, sending maybe a young wing and a young defender for a young center like Lundell or Newhook.

In any case, the Rangers would be foolish to parlay the bulk of their tradeable assets for a 29 year old center who doesn't push them over the top as Karlsson would not, and only to let Strome walk (which would have to happen if Karlsson was acquired). It's a complete waste of assets and if you don't win the Cup this very season (which the Rangers aren't going to do most likely, because they simply aren't good enough at 5-on-5).

If that's what you meant to say then you should've said it and not "top young center" or, at least, defined what you meant by that in the first place. Again on the Karlsson thing - I've never advocated for the guy so I'm not sure why you keep talking about this to me.

These cut and paste conversations are time consuming and tedious so I'm going to bow out at this point.

 

[Crease]

Kreider - Zibanejad - Kakko
Laf - Strome - Goodrow
Panarin - Chytil - Hunt
Rooney - McKegg - Reaves