Speculation: Roster Building Thread - Part XXXI

[haohmaru]

Chris Tierney, Dylan DeMelo, Josh Norris, Rudolfs Balcers, a first-round draft pick in either 2019 or 2020, a second-round pick in 2020 and two conditional draft picks.

thats what he was traded for. At the time balcers norris and tierney were really great prospects, a early 1st and 2nd rounder. still the point remains, nobody and no team is trading fox for zegras

My point remains, you are not trading all of that for William Karlsson! hes not a norris winner, hes not a top center in this league.

So again why are we overpaying with some of our top prospects when im showing you a similiar deal to what you are offering that was sent for a norris trophy winner and not williamn karlsson

Funny how you call it a "first round pick" instead of naming the player chosen: Stutzle.

I haven't talked about Karlsson at all so not sure why you're bringing that up to me?

 

[effen]

Chris Tierney, Dylan DeMelo, Josh Norris, Rudolfs Balcers, a first-round draft pick in either 2019 or 2020, a second-round pick in 2020 and two conditional draft picks.

thats what he was traded for. At the time balcers norris and tierney were really great prospects, a early 1st and 2nd rounder. still the point remains, nobody and no team is trading fox for zegras

At the time that was like 65 cents on the dollar. Not a single thing was "A" tier.

 

[huerter]

WFT fans were setting the over/under on Chase and Montez sacks at like 30. You don't have to sniff out homers. You have to sniff out the non-homers.

 

[Chalfdiggity3]

You're moving goal posts. I merely responded to your "3rd line winger" BS which is exactly that. Bullshit.

And the Rangers are 17th in goals scored. They certainly are not a "great offensive team". Facts are not on your side for quite a few of the arguments that you're making.

Let's agree on this - an upgrade at 2C is certainly something the Rangers should be looking at. They should also be prepared to lose something of significant value if that player is an upgrade over Ryan Strome (let's call him a top 30-40 center in The NHL, which I think is pretty fair).

I'm not saying that's a need that doesn't exist - I'm saying that projects and potential along with a late 1st is not going to bring anything back that's an upgrade over Strome. That's going to cost and, likely, going to hurt a little.

Dude the rangers are better in scoring and lines than the wings so yes krieder is playing for a much better offensive teram than the wings. Not that hard to understand here. ALso im not moving goalposts. Krieder started out hot and hasnt done much since then,. He does his thing on the PP with yes panarin, fox, zibs, and so on. So read the facts again. What are the redwings ranked? Who is larkin playing with thats as good as krieder. You wanted to know how to pay for larkin or harvat, im tellin you how.

Yes we can agree that the rangers need an actual center and not strome. lol

 

[effen]

Prospects are picks are the new cars of hockey assets. As soon as they see NHL ice (drive off the lot) they lose 25-30% of their value and its all downhill from there.

 

[haohmaru]

Nils, chytl, and jones all graduated and are not considered prospects by whoever you are looking up.

No. 10: Forward Brett Berard
No. 9: Forward Will Cuylle
No. 8: Forward Karl Henriksson
No. 7: Forward Morgan Barron
No. 6: Defenseman Matthew Robertson
No. 5: Forward Brennan Othmann
No. 4: Defenseman Zac Jones
No. 3: Defenseman Braden Schneider
No. 2: Forward Vitali Kravtsov
No. 1:Defenseman Nils Lundkvist

September 2021, LoHud (Vince)'s Rangers top prospect rankings.

Hockey news, November 2021

The Hockey News just came out with their “Prospects Unlimited” rankings of the best prospects 21 years old and under and it’s clear that their hockey cognoscenti are less impressed by the Rangers’ young players than in the past. There are certainly reasons to argue that the rankings are wrong.
Here’s where the pride of the Blueshirts rank.

• #26 – Alexis Lafrenière
• #54 – K’Andre Miller
• #62 – Kaapo Kakko
• #72 – Zac Jones
• #88 – Braden Schneider
• #96 – Nils Lundkvist

Pronman, Sept 2021

Per Pronman’s top 10 rankings of NYR Prospects:

1. Alexis Lafrenière
2. Kaapo Kakko
3. Filip Chytil
4. Nils Lundkvist
5. Braden Schneider
6. Zac Jones
7. K’Andre Miller
8. Brennan Othmann
9. Vitali Kravtsov
10. Morgan Barron

Chytil, I'll give you. Jones and Lundkvist are still in that "prospect" area.

 

[haohmaru]

Chris Tierney, Dylan DeMelo, Josh Norris, Rudolfs Balcers, a first-round draft pick in either 2019 or 2020, a second-round pick in 2020 and two conditional draft picks.

thats what he was traded for. At the time balcers norris and tierney were really great prospects, a early 1st and 2nd rounder. still the point remains, nobody and no team is trading fox for zegras

My point remains, you are not trading all of that for William Karlsson! hes not a norris winner, hes not a top center in this league.

So again why are we overpaying with some of our top prospects when im showing you a similiar deal to what you are offering that was sent for a norris trophy winner and not williamn karlsson

Okay, but you're moving goalposts again. You asked me to show you a Norris trophy winner that was traded. I did. I didn't say it was a good trade for the Senators nor did I analyze that at all. I merely provided you an example which you asked for.

 

[haohmaru]

Prospects are picks are the new cars of hockey assets. As soon as they see NHL ice (drive off the lot) they lose 25-30% of their value and its all downhill from there.

Unless they play like Fox.

 

[effen]

William Karlsson is an awesome 2 way center. A prospect can be anything. Maybe even an awesome 2 way center!

 

[haohmaru]

William Karlsson is an awesome 2 way center. A prospect can be anything. Maybe even an awesome 2 way center!

All of the Rangers draft picks are awesome centers. That just happen to play LW, RW, or D and not Center. Let's convert them!

 

[Avery16]

 

[Daves a mess]

So no McDavid tonight ay?

 

[Bruner4329]

Dude the rangers are better in scoring and lines than the wings so yes krieder is playing for a much better offensive teram than the wings. Not that hard to understand here. ALso im not moving goalposts. Krieder started out hot and hasnt done much since then,. He does his thing on the PP with yes panarin, fox, zibs, and so on. So read the facts again. What are the redwings ranked? Who is larkin playing with thats as good as krieder. You wanted to know how to pay for larkin or harvat, im tellin you how.

Yes we can agree that the rangers need an actual center and not strome. lol

Its obvious your are clueless when it comes to hockey. Kreider has not done much since then? What team are you watching. The guy has scored 9 points in the last 5 games including 3 yesterday and if you watched and absorbed Friday's game in TB he played a great all around game including some key defensive plays. The guy made two blocks on the same shift one of them when he could barely move after blocking the first shot.

 

[n8]

No. I have us shopping out chytil and Kravtsov for Karlsson. And ONE of Lundkvist or Jones to Detroit to pick up half of the tab.

for 3 prime assets, why don't you deal directly with Detroit and get 25 y.o. Dylan Larkin? Detroit can eat the cap directly. He's signed one more year. Karlsson does have 5 more years but that is a risky 5 years of cap for a marginal but serviceable top 6, top 9 center. I think if you had a deal of Karlsson for Kravtsov and Chytil ONLY with Vegas magically taking like 25% cap, you could make a debate. Adding Lundkvist or Jones for like$2M in cap is ridiculous asset management though.

 

[leetch99]

Next draft we simply select 7 centers from Canada -US-Sweden-Finland-Germany-French Canada-and last but not least one from Siberia ...the biggest meanest bugger in the draft and hope he flourishes . We'll need a Reaves sub in 2 years anyways ....may as well start that hunt this draft .

 

[BobMarleyNYR]

nm

 

[Chalfdiggity3]

Its obvious your are clueless when it comes to hockey. Kreider has not done much since then? What team are you watching. The guy has scored 9 points in the last 5 games including 3 yesterday and if you watched and absorbed Friday's game in TB he played a great all around game including some key defensive plays. The guy made two blocks on the same shift one of them when he could barely move after blocking the first shot.

Zibs was himself last night, it wasnt a resurgence of krieder. it was a resurgence of Zibs. And great if you look at how krieder scores points it is mostly on the PP. Stop trying to jump into a middle of a conversation and act like you know what is going on.

The point was, that kreider plays on a much better and more talented team with better teammates than Larkin and they are putting up similar amount of points. We allocate Krieders money to an actual #2nd line center. We have wingers and young ones coming. Krieder is the odd man out and will prob be traded (as was stated by vetted sources). My point is that you can reallocate krieders money to the center position in order to absorb Larkin or horvat or whoever is traded for by using Nils, Kravy, Chytl, our 1st and whatever to get that. Im not making a trade for a middling center in Karlson who while would be a nice get, but is not who you trade the farm for.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

I'm not advocating for rentals but if we go down that road wouldn't Nick Leddy be the perfect guy for this D?

 

[Savant]

William Karlsson is an awesome 2 way center. A prospect can be anything. Maybe even an awesome 2 way center!

Prospects generally don’t cost almost 6m a year though. Rangers probably can’t afford that. And is you are comparing Karlsson vs Strome, then it is Karlsson who is the mystery box in this analogy.

 

[Cag29]

Dude the rangers are better in scoring and lines than the wings so yes krieder is playing for a much better offensive teram than the wings. Not that hard to understand here. ALso im not moving goalposts. Krieder started out hot and hasnt done much since then,. He does his thing on the PP with yes panarin, fox, zibs, and so on. So read the facts again. What are the redwings ranked? Who is larkin playing with thats as good as krieder. You wanted to know how to pay for larkin or harvat, im tellin you how.

Yes we can agree that the rangers need an actual center and not strome. lol

Kreider has 9 points in his past 5 games. 30 on the season. This is by far his best season so far and he’s what 29?

 

[Chalfdiggity3]

Kreider has 9 points in his past 5 games. 30 on the season. This is by far his best season so far and he’s what 29?

The point is that it has already been talked about by vetted posters that there is already internal discussions about having to move krieder and trouba for cap reasons by the start of this offseason and to allocate that money to other prime positions that are needed like center.

But the basis of this discussion started with what we are willing to give up for William Karlsson at 2.9m per season by trading Chytl, Nils, and Kravy for. I am of the thinking that is too much and you might as well add a 1st rounder in it and you are talking about what we were going to trade for Eichel. One is not like the other. IF we are trading all of that then it needs to be for the player we want and can continue to grow with the core of fox, laffy, kakko, and so on.

 

[mas0764]

Like who? What center? How much are they against the cap?

I dunno. If I was the GM I'd be working the phones. I happen to know that Kupari and a first was offered for Buch, I know Buch also almost brought back the 8OA pick a couple years ago. We have assets to get a good, young center who can be a top 6 stud someday if we get creative.

If it's no one right this second then wait for the right move. Don't blow through three or four prime assets for something that isn't going to come close to getting us over the hump.

And you believe Drury is going to move Trouba and Kreider just to make room for them?

I'm absolutely positive that Trouba and Kreider don't both see the end of their contracts here, probably not either. And probably not this offseason but I bet the next offseason one of them goes. This has been substantiated as in discussion by Edge.

You’re divorced from reality.

Yeah, ok, your solution of trading three prime prospects for a 29 year old 45 point player is the only thing that is realistic, got it.

No.

It’s Strome or a good value 2C. You might not agree with it but that’s what’s happening

I'll take Strome and keep my prospects rather than trade three of them for Karlsson and let Strome walk. THAT is what's not happening.

 

[mas0764]

Nobody trades "young top centers" because everybody needs them. The Eichels of the world are a bonafide rarity.

So it's not "no one," then, it's just rare.

And as I just pointed out we had Buch for Kupari and a first offered to us this offseason, and Buch almost brought back an 8OA pick a couple drafts ago.

Opportunities are out there to get up and find a young impact center, you just have to be creative (and not turn down good deals because you need more "grit.")

Nobody is moving guys like that that haven't asked to be moved for our scraps and, honestly, the above at this point are scraps.

None of this is true.

Chytil has potential but hasn't proven a damned thing, Kravtsov hasn't proven a thing on North American ice and his trade value is in the toilet since he took his toys and ran home, Lundkvist has potential, again, but is a 5/6/7 D as it stands and your draft pick looks to be in the 20's if things stay relatively the same.

Potential can buy a lot. Eichel basically just went for Krebs and a first.

No GM in his right mind is moving a cost effective top young center for that shit. If you want top end young center it's going to cost you things you don't want to part with. Fox. Multiple firsts. Lafreniere. Kakko.

Yeah, I mean, you aren't prying Jack Hughes away from the Devils or getting Nathan MacKinnon.

You will have to find someone who hasn't arrived yet, or who wants out, or is with a team that is deep at his position, or you'll have to trade those prospects for a pick for another prospect you really like. What if you could trade Nils and a first for a top 10 pick to get Lambert, say? Etc.

Something like that needs to be where we are headed. Not trading three prime assets for a guy who was good 4 years ago.

And it is possible. Very possible. We've had a couple prime opportunities the past couple seasons that have just slipped through our fingers for one reason or another. We need to find another (or two) and close the deal.

 

[RGY]

People need to move on from the things that did and didn’t happen. Buch for Kupari + 1st didn’t happen. Let it go. Buch for Blais + 2nd was the trade. Maybe we should have gotten at least a 1st with Blais, but they didn’t. Let it go.

 

[Cag29]

The point is that it has already been talked about by vetted posters that there is already internal discussions about having to move krieder and trouba for cap reasons by the start of this offseason and to allocate that money to other prime positions that are needed like center.

But the basis of this discussion started with what we are willing to give up for William Karlsson at 2.9m per season by trading Chytl, Nils, and Kravy for. I am of the thinking that is too much and you might as well add a 1st rounder in it and you are talking about what we were going to trade for Eichel. One is not like the other. IF we are trading all of that then it needs to be for the player we want and can continue to grow with the core of fox, laffy, kakko, and so on.

I can’t wait til the cap hits 95-100m so we can keep our players.