Speculation: Roster Building Thread - Part XXXI

[duhmetreE]

You had us shipping out Krav, Nils, Jones and Chytil to bring back Karlsson with retention.

No. Not ever. Horrible trade on our end.

No. I have us shopping out chytil and Kravtsov for Karlsson. And ONE of Lundkvist or Jones to Detroit to pick up half of the tab.

 

[Chalfdiggity3]

All those players are replaceable from within.

I wouldn’t trade nor never mentioned trading a 1st

we. Cannot. Afford. Another. Superstar.

They are not replaceable from within. Jones and Nils are the same. Robertson and Schieder are the same. Yes we have an unbelievable stockpile of assets but just because that stockpile is deep with high profile guys does not mean that our other prospects get rated less and are worth less in a deal. Those defenseman are not replaceable at the moment.

You dont just throw away assets bc you have an abundance of them for players who arent going to make this team better for the now and future. We need those young prospects to come in and take spots from Trouba and fill in our 3rd pair as soon as next season.

What we need to find is a center who can play presently and grow with our young team. Someone like Larkin and Horvat are not superstars. But are legit centers who can center a line with laf and kakko for years to come.

 

[mas0764]

No. I have us shopping out chytil and Kravtsov for Karlsson. And ONE of Lundkvist or Jones to Detroit to pick up half of the tab.

I see, so I read your original post as both, not either.

Ok, still hard pass.

Chytil/Kravtsov/Nils should bring back way more than Karlsson.

In fact, I'll add to that package (like a first) so that I CAN bring back a higher end player, if needed, rather than waste those three assets on a 29 year old who doesn't move the needle.

A Chytil/Kravtsov/Nils/1st package can bring back a young top center on a ELC for chrissakes.

 

[Chalfdiggity3]

Potential alone doesn’t win games.

you’re under valuing Karlsson

You are overvaluing karlsson and undervaluing our prospects. and yes we know potential doesnt win game. But we are winning plenty of games without trading all of our top prospects. We need these prospects to come in and take spots. We need the competition and we need these prospects to use in deals in order to acquire the correct player for this franchise. You dont go around and trade all of our potential for the future for a middling 6 center. You sound like you want to go back to the dark ages of the early 2000's.

Stop trying to trade the future of our franchise for crap

 

[duhmetreE]

I see, so I read your original post as both, not either.

Ok, still hard pass.

Chytil/Kravtsov/Nils should bring back way more than Karlsson.

In fact, I'll add to that package (like a first) so that I CAN bring back a higher end player, if needed, rather than waste those three assets on a 29 year old who doesn't move the needle.

A Chytil/Kravtsov/Nils/1st package can bring back a young top center on a ELC for chrissakes.

Like who? What center? How much are they against the cap?

And you believe Drury is going to move Trouba and Kreider just to make room for them?

You’re divorced from reality.

It’s Strome or a good value 2C. You might not agree with it but that’s what’s happening

 

[Chalfdiggity3]

No. I have us shopping out chytil and Kravtsov for Karlsson. And ONE of Lundkvist or Jones to Detroit to pick up half of the tab.

Lol thats shipping out 3 prime assets for Karlsson. It may not be going to one team but still the same premise.

 

[haohmaru]

A Chytil/Kravtsov/Nils/1st package can bring back a young top center on a ELC for chrissakes.

Nobody trades "young top centers" because everybody needs them. The Eichels of the world are a bonafide rarity. Nobody is moving guys like that that haven't asked to be moved for our scraps and, honestly, the above at this point are scraps. Chytil has potential but hasn't proven a damned thing, Kravtsov hasn't proven a thing on North American ice and his trade value is in the toilet since he took his toys and ran home, Lundkvist has potential, again, but is a 5/6/7 D as it stands and your draft pick looks to be in the 20's if things stay relatively the same.

No GM in his right mind is moving a cost effective top young center for that shit. If you want top end young center it's going to cost you things you don't want to part with. Fox. Multiple firsts. Lafreniere. Kakko.

 

[Chalfdiggity3]

Like who? What center? How much are they against the cap?

And you believe Drury is going to move Trouba and Kreider just to make room for them?

You’re divorced from reality.

It’s Strome or a good value 2C. You might not agree with it but that’s what’s happening

We have already been updated from vetted insiders that Trouba and or Krieder will be moved as soon as this coming offseason.

Yes its strome or trading for a center like hertl, horvat, larkin and so on. Players who fit now and the future of this franchise.

I hope to god its not strome. Hes beyond overrated. and if we are keeping him he better be moved to wing and yet we STILL need to find a center in my mind.

 

[DudMan28]

Is Larkin even on the block still? Detroit has had some major pieces emerge and look closer to competing than we thought. The thought was Larkin didn't want to suffer through a long rebuild but they could be relevant in another year or two

 

[Chalfdiggity3]

Nobody trades "young top centers" because everybody needs them. The Eichels of the world are a bonafide rarity. Nobody is moving guys like that that haven't asked to be moved for our scraps and, honestly, the above at this point are scraps. Chytil has potential but hasn't proven a damned thing, Kravtsov hasn't proven a thing on North American ice and his trade value is in the toilet since he took his toys and ran home, Lundkvist has potential, again, but is a 5/6/7 D as it stands and your draft pick looks to be in the 20's if things stay relatively the same.

No GM in his right mind is moving a cost effective top young center for that shit. If you want top end young center it's going to cost you things you don't want to part with. Fox. Multiple firsts. Lafreniere. Kakko.

Dude, how high are you? Seriously, players are moved all the time, and the point is that we can use these assets for a better match of what we are looking for. Eichel isnt the player we are shooting for here. Also for you to say nils value has lowered shows how out of touch you are. Yes kravys went down a bit but is still producing, and chytl while he hasnt been great is still 22yrs old. And even though our draft pick will be in the late 20's its still a first and gms covet first rounders.

Will you stop? f***ing Adam fox the reigning norris champ would barely get someone like zegras? That statement right there shows how out of touch you are.

Horvat, hetl, larkin, and so on have been talked about by vetted sources.

 

[haohmaru]

We have already been updated from vetted insiders that Trouba and or Krieder will be moved as soon as this coming offseason.

They might try to move them but it's the "will" part of this sentence that I have an issue with. I mean, Trouba and/or Kreider have to be on board, another team has to be willing to take them with a relatively flat cap coming, you have to actually replace either or both players who are having career years with something that resembles them and are both younger and cheaper, etc...

If that's the plan, it's not going to be easy and not take a step backwards.

 

[Chalfdiggity3]

Is Larkin even on the block still? Detroit has had some major pieces emerge and look closer to competing than we thought. The thought was Larkin didn't want to suffer through a long rebuild but they could be relevant in another year or two

Word is they will be having a conversation with him about his future with the wings. If he wants to stay and be part of the rebuild or not. They are still years away from contention and he is just entering his prime. It seems like the decision is Larkins

 

[duhmetreE]

Lol thats shipping out 3 prime assets for Karlsson. It may not be going to one team but still the same premise.

What do you think a good 2C w/ retention will cost?

Receiving long-term retention is arguably equivalent to receiving a top prospect right now.

A 3rd pair D-men ( Lundkvist ) that will not crack the top4. With Schneider nearly here.
A Diva that left the team twice and is 99.9% done with the org. With Cuylle, Othmann and Berard almost here.
Chytil who has stagnated for too long. Who costs $2.3M per

but Karlsson @ $2.9M is 'crap'.... right....

We can't have a honest converstation when you're so wrong about Karlsson. Karlsson's a phenomenal even-strength player. Good 2way talent. He led the league in EVP in the Playoffs last season... Guess where we need to improve? His best years were under Gallant. What happens when he plays with Panarin? What he would provide @ $2.9M IS WELL WORTH that package

We can't afford Larkin long term.
We can't afford Horvat long term.

Robbing Peter to pay Paul is what people want... trade Kreider and Trouba, our heart and soul right now, for another Center... It's not viable

 

[Chalfdiggity3]

They might try to move them but it's the "will" part of this sentence that I have an issue with. I mean, Trouba and/or Kreider have to be on board, another team has to be willing to take them with a relatively flat cap coming, you have to actually replace either or both players who are having career years with something that resembles them and are both younger and cheaper, etc...

If that's the plan, it's not going to be easy and not take a step backwards.

Correct its not going to be easy but thats why we have berard, otthman, and so on. Thats why we have Laf and kakko, thats why we would be moving Trouba and Krider to free up capspace to get those pieces. We also have blais who has been hurt. I mean we have options and the idea is to move them and reallocate cap space and have players like Nils/jones or robertson/schneider who can take their spots in the lineup. This is why you dont toss them away for Gio and Karlsson

 

[haohmaru]

Dude, how high are you? Seriously, players are moved all the time, and the point is that we can use these assets for a better match of what we are looking for. Eichel isnt the player we are shooting for here. Also for you to say nils value has lowered shows how out of touch you are. Yes kravys went down a bit but is still producing, and chytl while he hasnt been great is still 22yrs old. And even though our draft pick will be in the late 20's its still a first and gms covet first rounders.

Will you stop? f***ing Adam fox the reigning norris champ would barely get someone like zegras? That statement right there shows how out of touch you are.

Horvat, hetl, larkin, and so on have been talked about by vetted sources.

High? Show me the "top young centers" that have been moved for that type of deal. It's not about players being moved it's about that category of player being moved and what for.

Horvat? Come on.
Hertl? Not a "top young center". He's 28 and approaching UFA. Not the guy that matches that description.
Larkin? Doesn't fit with the salary you're (not) moving the other way and no way is Detroit moving him for the above.

I'm not disparaging Lundkvist at all. He needs to mature and has potential. Still, he's not getting a top 20-30 cost controlled young center. Ain't happening.

The guy who is out of touch here is YOU.

 

[Chalfdiggity3]

What do you think a good 2C w/ retention will cost?

Receiving long-term retention is arguably equivalent to receiving a top prospect right now.

A 3rd pair D-men ( Lundkvist ) that will not crack the top4. With Schneider nearly here.
A Diva that left the team twice and is 99.9% done with the org. With Cuylle, Othmann and Berard almost here.
Chytil who has stagnated for too long. Who costs $2.3M per

but Karlsson @ $2.9M is 'crap'.... right....

We can't have a honest converstation when you're so wrong about Karlsson. Karlsson's a phenomenal even-strength player. Good 2way talent. He led the league in EVP in the Playoffs last season... Guess where we need to improve? His best years were under Gallant. What happens when he plays with Panarin? What he would provide @ $2.9M IS WELL WORTH that package

We can't afford Larkin long term.
We can't afford Horvat long term.

Robbing Peter to pay Paul is what people want... trade Kreider and Trouba, our heart and soul right now, for another Center... It's not viable

Just because YOU dont see a spot for these prospects again does not mean you throw away our top prospects to gain william Karlson. Nils has the ability to be a top pairing dman. Chtyl may be stagnant but has value, and kravy youre using as a throw in when his value is lowest. Karlsson is a really good 2nd line center and yes for 2.9 that would be great but again you are buying someone on the backend of their career like Krieder and zibs. Its about finding a younger player who can play and grow with the likes of kakko and laf.

The conversations have already been had within the organization about krieder and trouba. Trouba just makes to much and will prob go when Schnieder or robertson are ready. Krieder again is not the heart and soul of this team. He is not the captain nor should he be. He will be moved bc you cant pay a 3rd line winger 6.5m. These will be moved and we can then afford our larkin or horvat as our #2 center and #1 center of the future.

 

[Chalfdiggity3]

High? Show me the "top young centers" that have been moved for that type of deal. It's not about players being moved it's about that category of player being moved and what for.

Horvat? Come on.
Hertl? Not a "top young center". He's 28 and approaching UFA. Not the guy that matches that description.
Larkin? Doesn't fit with the salary you're (not) moving the other way and no way is Detroit moving him for the above.

I'm not disparaging Lundkvist at all. He needs to mature and has potential. Still, he's not getting a top 20-30 cost controlled young center. Ain't happening.

The guy who is out of touch here is YOU.

Yes you are high. Show me a Norris winning defensman who is traded? You have to go out and find the player and deal you want and are okay with moving the right assets to make.

All the players we have all mentioned are players being talked about by vetted insiders. Larkin can fit especially if you allow players who dont need to be here to go. Like nemeth, tinordi, and so on.

You are disparaging Nils by alot.

Either way you are the only one fighting for the deal you proposed while a few besides me have been against you saying what im saying.

Your entitled to your opinion just as everyone else

 

[haohmaru]

The conversations have already been had within the organization about krieder and trouba. Trouba just makes to much and will prob go when Schnieder or robertson are ready. Krieder again is not the heart and soul of this team. He is not the captain nor should he be. He will be moved bc you can't pay a 3rd line winger 6.5m. These will be moved and we can then afford our larkin*** or horvat as our #2 center and #1 center of the future.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

"3rd line winger" that's 4th in NHL in goals. Dude, that's funny.

*** And he's tied with your "top young center" Larkin for 26th in points.

This is comedy gold.

 

[haohmaru]

Yes you are high. Show me a Norris winning defensman who is traded? You have to go out and find the player and deal you want and are okay with moving the right assets to make.

Sure thing. Erik Karlsson

Oh, btw, he won it TWICE.

 

[Chalfdiggity3]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

"3rd line winger" that's 4th in NHL in goals. Dude, that's funny.

*** And he's tied with your "top young center" Larkin for 26th in points.

This is comedy gold.

Great that this one and only year. He is 29 and doesnt have to be the guy in ny. When he did he was horrendous and played disappearing acts. Also one is playing with a great offensive team. the other plays for a rebuilding wings.

Also youre talking about a 29yo winger against a 25yo two way center to grow with our team. One is not like the other

 

[haohmaru]

Which, btw, doesn't mean I want to trade Fox. I'm saying that if you want a TOP young center it's going to cost you things that you don't want to part with not yesterdays news and "potential".

 

[Chalfdiggity3]

Sure thing. Erik Karlsson

Oh, btw, he won it TWICE.

Chris Tierney, Dylan DeMelo, Josh Norris, Rudolfs Balcers, a first-round draft pick in either 2019 or 2020, a second-round pick in 2020 and two conditional draft picks.

thats what he was traded for. At the time balcers norris and tierney were really great prospects, a early 1st and 2nd rounder. still the point remains, nobody and no team is trading fox for zegras

My point remains, you are not trading all of that for William Karlsson! hes not a norris winner, hes not a top center in this league.

So again why are we overpaying with some of our top prospects when im showing you a similiar deal to what you are offering that was sent for a norris trophy winner and not williamn karlsson

 

[effen]

Nils, Kravy, Chytl, and our 1st among our other top prospects are actual top prospects in this league.

None of those four assets are Top 50(tm) prospect assets in the league. The idea a late 1st round pick that hasn't even been made yet is even a top 100 asset is ludicrous.

 

[haohmaru]

Great that this one and only year. He is 29 and doesnt have to be the guy in ny. When he did he was horrendous and played disappearing acts. Also one is playing with a great offensive team. the other plays for a rebuilding wings.

Also youre talking about a 29yo winger against a 25yo two way center to grow with our team. One is not like the other

You're moving goal posts. I merely responded to your "3rd line winger" BS which is exactly that. Bullshit.

And the Rangers are 17th in goals scored. They certainly are not a "great offensive team". Facts are not on your side for quite a few of the arguments that you're making.

Let's agree on this - an upgrade at 2C is certainly something the Rangers should be looking at. They should also be prepared to lose something of significant value if that player is an upgrade over Ryan Strome (let's call him a top 30-40 center in The NHL, which I think is pretty fair).

I'm not saying that's a need that doesn't exist - I'm saying that projects and potential along with a late 1st is not going to bring anything back that's an upgrade over Strome. That's going to cost and, likely, going to hurt a little.

 

[Chalfdiggity3]

None of those four assets are Top 50(tm) prospect assets in the league. The idea a late 1st round pick that hasn't even been made yet is even a top 100 asset is ludicrous.

Nils, chytl, and jones all graduated and are not considered prospects by whoever you are looking up.