Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XXXI

[Amazing Kreiderman]

They blocked you? Where are they going to steal their info from now?

Their main account hasn't blocked me yet

 

[Kovalev27]

First line C and he’s a righty shooter on the PP check

Stud righty 1st pairing offensive D check

Elite goaltending (between hank shesterkin Georgiev Allaire I’m not worried) check

Those are the 3 hardest things to find and imo we’ve got them already. Now build around them and we’ll be in good shape very soon.

 

[Ghost of jas]

I often wonder, if Zibanejad was drafted sixth overall by the Rangers in 2011, and fans were able to attach hopes and dreams to him as a teenager, would there be as much hedging on him?

Whereas we tend to over-project a bunch of guys, and every positive game has people projecting stardom, we’re much more subdued on Zibanejad.

Since this time last year, the dude is essentially a point per game player on a bottom 10 team, at the ages of 24 and 25.

I almost wonder what people are seeing right now. He's answered just about every question mark that's been raised about him. I'm as big a Kreider fan as there is on this site, but, on a nightly basis, Zibanejad is this team's best player, hands down. He has the production. He has the effort. He's showing leadership. He's a physical force. And he routinely makes highly-skilled plays on a nightly basis. One of my biggest tropes has been, "the Rangers don't need to draft a Crosby/McDavid, they just need to find their Schiefele." Well, I can now amend that to, 'they need to find another Zibanejad." Frankly, I can envision a lineup where Mika/Kravtsov are carrying the heavy load on line 1A, and Kreider is providing support on line 1B for Dach/Cozens/Turcotte/Newhook. Your top six is doing just fine in that scenario.

And that's why getting as many assets for players like Zuccarello and Hayes, to go along with what's already been acquired was so essential. It's the big picture.

 

[Ghost of jas]

And Mika did most of that playing with plugs half the time. Drai plays with MC David, mackinnon is on the best line in hockey, and Tavares point and pavelski play on elite teams.

Mika is elite. He really is.

Now having said that this next ststment may surprise you.

I don’t think we should go after Panarin. Or Karlsson.

I think management has decided the age group of players that will be the veterans on this team Mika Skjei buchnevich DeAngelo Shesterkin Lemieux Vesey (maybe) Strome (maybe) all currently in the 23 to 25 age group and want to surround those guys with young talent. I think as painful as it will be kreider will be moved. Maybe at the draft to get into the top 15 and take another big time pick and a higher end prospect. I think they’re serious about this rebuild. But I also think they believe they’ve got some really good pieces now that will make them competitive quickly.

By the end of this summer we’ll have most likely drafted 8 first round picks in 3 years. That’s no joke. You start bringing those guys in along with the veteran group here all in their mid 20s and you’ve got a really good base to then add UFA pieces later.

But it shouldn’t be this summer.

Welcome to the darkside.

 

[Kovalev27]

I’m starting to lean towards giving Mika the C. I think he thrives on responsibility and respect for the game. I think he’s really grown as a player and a person. I think he’s the guy and although he’s a quieter guy I think he actually loves being the guy.

 

[TheBPA]

I almost wonder what people are seeing right now. He's answered just about every question mark that's been raised about him. I'm as big a Kreider fan as there is on this site, but, on a nightly basis, Zibanejad is this team's best player, hands down. He has the production. He has the effort. He's showing leadership. He's a physical force. And he routinely makes highly-skilled plays on a nightly basis. One of my biggest tropes has been, "the Rangers don't need to draft a Crosby/McDavid, they just need to find their Schiefele." Well, I can now amend that to, 'they need to find another Zibanejad." Frankly, I can envision a lineup where Mika/Kravtsov are carrying the heavy load on line 1A, and Kreider is providing support on line 1B for Dach/Cozens/Turcotte/Newhook. Your top six is doing just fine in that scenario.

And that's why getting as many assets for players like Zuccarello and Hayes, to go along with what's already been acquired was so essential. It's the big picture.

His talent level is undeniable and he has now matched it with production for an entire year.

That backhand top-shelf one timer goal he had last game against Tampa? Not many guys in the league are skilled enough to pull that off.

 

[Ghost of jas]

First line C and he’s a righty shooter on the PP check

Stud righty 1st pairing offensive D check

Elite goaltending (between hank shesterkin Georgiev Allaire I’m not worried) check

Those are the 3 hardest things to find and imo we’ve got them already. Now build around them and we’ll be in good shape very soon.

There are already some very good pieces here. Lemieux/Howden/Andersson has the potential to be a very nasty 3rd line. Kravtsov oozes high end skill. Chytil as the third wheel on one of your top two lines could be downright scary. Miller has the ability to be a minutes-eating shutdown force next to Tony D. Lundqvist and Keane as 2nd/3rd pairing options on the right side are intriguing. And you've got Rykov and Hajek as well as Skjei behind Miller. Plus you have pieces like Buchnevich and Vesey that are still finding their games. And, you've got the next two drafts where the Rangers could have as many as six first round picks (I 'm putting my money on having five), and an upcoming draft which the Rangers will have a chance at worst five of the top 60 or so players in the upcoming draft. Yeah, I like where this is headed.

 

[Ghost of jas]

His talent level is undeniable and he has now matched it with production for an entire year.

That backhand top-shelf one timer goal he had last game against Tampa? Not many guys in the league are skilled enough to pull that off.

There's been a bunch of plays he's pulled off, either precision backhand passes past two-three defenders, banking pucks off the wall to himself or just using his skates while in full flight to get control of the puck. Plus, he's become very defensively responsible.

 

[Edge]

I really do almost think that they we forget that Mika wasn’t a dark horse to become this type of player.

He was drafted sixth overall in 2011 and was a steady riser in that draft class. We often talk about higher end talent coming from the top 10 and that’s what Mika’s ceiling was.

He stayed at a certain plateau in Ottawa and was traded to us for another former top 10 pick in Brassard. But he was also only 23 when we got him.

By comparison, Adam Graves was 23 when we signed him and Lemieux will be 23 this month. Tony Amonte was 23 when we traded him. Nedved was on the cusp of 23 when we acquired him the first time, and Doug Weight was on the cusp when sent him to Edmonton.

In other words, even though it feels like Zibanejad’s been in the league forever, he is still a fairly young player and we acquired him when he was even younger.

 

[Profet]

I often wonder, if Zibanejad was drafted sixth overall by the Rangers in 2011, and fans were able to attach hopes and dreams to him as a teenager, would there be as much hedging on him?

Whereas we tend to over-project a bunch of guys, and every positive game has people projecting stardom, we’re much more subdued on Zibanejad.

Since this time last year, the dude is essentially a point per game player on a bottom 10 team, at the ages of 24 and 25.

I agree. I think part of the issue is that since we didn't draft Zibanejad, he falls into the "unfamiliar" category. I know I sometimes forget just how young he is. For the older fans, there is this learned behavior to expect anyone that is brought in via trade/FA to be older, just because that was the norm for 20+ years.

 

[Edge]

I agree. I think part of the issue is that since we didn't draft Zibanejad, he falls into the "unfamiliar" category. I know I sometimes forget just how young he is. For the older fans, there is this learned behavior to expect anyone that is brought in via trade/FA to be older, just because that was the norm for 20+ years.

I also think, subconsciously, we’d be hyping him more if he was a North American kid.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

I also think, subconsciously, we’d be hyping him more if he was a North American kid.

Eh I don’t agree. NYR fans had no problem hyping their Swedish goaltender. Homegrown aspect, maybe, but not nationality.

I think it’s two things:

1. Mika has shown these flashes before, but the issue has been health/consistency. I personally am a believer that he has taken a step but I wouldn’t be surprised if there was still skepticism out there.

2. So much of the “hype factor” depends on expectations. Given his draft pedigree and the Brassard that the NYR dealt for him, expectation by most was he would develop into a ~1C. He has. He met expectations.

Fair or not I think that’s a factor...it’s why people “go nuts” for 3rd liners or 2nd pair D who come out of nowhere. There were no expectations for that player to become anything significant so it is seen as a huge bonus.

 

[Synergy27]

His talent level is undeniable and he has now matched it with production for an entire year.

That backhand top-shelf one timer goal he had last game against Tampa? Not many guys in the league are skilled enough to pull that off.

I don't disagree with any of the commentary going on about Z right now. He's clearly the best player on the team and things really seem to be coming together for him. That said, that goal was lucky, and I'm pretty sure he'd admit that. He was just trying to get a stick on the bouncing puck and was fortunate to get most of it and have it go top shelf.

 

[Profet]

I also think, subconsciously, we’d be hyping him more if he was a North American kid.

See, here I disagree.

I think if anything, we over hype Europeans in this forum.

 

[Ghost of jas]

Eh I don’t agree. NYR fans had no problem hyping their Swedish goaltender. Homegrown aspect, maybe, but not nationality.

I think it’s two things:

1. Mika has shown these flashes before, but the issue has been health/consistency. I personally am a believer that he has taken a step but I wouldn’t be surprised if there was still skepticism out there.

2. So much of the “hype factor” depends on expectations. Given his draft pedigree and the Brassard that the NYR dealt for him, expectation by most was he would develop into a ~1C. He has. He met expectations.

Fair or not I think that’s a factor...it’s why people “go nuts” for 3rd liners or 2nd pair D who come out of nowhere. There were no expectations for that player to become anything significant so it is seen as a huge bonus.

I think for people on this site, you're correct. But, I'm not so sure amongst the less engaged/obsessed fans, that's not so much the case. I think when you're insulated by this site, you're getting a higher appreciation for everything related to the game. Honestly, when I venture into listening even to the world of talk show hosts, and their callers, I am flabbergasted sometimes by the ignorance I hear. I put so much more trust in people that are associated wit this board than the majority of Ranger fans I encounter outside of this board.

 

[Kovalev27]

It’s that he’s not homegrown and feels like he’s been in the league for 10 years that people are skeptical. If he was a Rangers 6th overall pick and came in to the league at 22 23 when we traded for him he’d have the full love of the fan base and would be getting his dues. But at the end of the day. You play center score 30’goals and put up a ppg people will start to call you elite no matter where you came from. It’s happening now and another year like this next year and he’ll solidify himself among the top guys in the league.

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

And Mika did most of that playing with plugs half the time. Drai plays with MC David, mackinnon is on the best line in hockey, and Tavares point and pavelski play on elite teams.

Mika is elite. He really is.

Now having said that this next ststment may surprise you.

I don’t think we should go after Panarin. Or Karlsson.

I think management has decided the age group of players that will be the veterans on this team Mika Skjei buchnevich DeAngelo Shesterkin Lemieux Vesey (maybe) Strome (maybe) all currently in the 23 to 25 age group and want to surround those guys with young talent. I think as painful as it will be kreider will be moved. Maybe at the draft to get into the top 15 and take another big time pick and a higher end prospect. I think they’re serious about this rebuild. But I also think they believe they’ve got some really good pieces now that will make them competitive quickly.

By the end of this summer we’ll have most likely drafted 8 first round picks in 3 years. That’s no joke. You start bringing those guys in along with the veteran group here all in their mid 20s and you’ve got a really good base to then add UFA pieces later.

But it shouldn’t be this summer.

I have to say, I think you're right, Kovy. All year long, I've kept wavering back and forth on whether or not to re-sign Kreider and/or sign Panarin (have always had trepidation re: EK), but what you've posted makes a ton of sense as a strategy.

 

[TheBPA]

It’s that he’s not homegrown and feels like he’s been in the league for 10 years that people are skeptical. If he was a Rangers 6th overall pick and came in to the league at 22 23 when we traded for him he’d have the full love of the fan base and would be getting his dues. But at the end of the day. You play center score 30’goals and put up a ppg people will start to call you elite no matter where you came from. It’s happening now and another year like this next year and he’ll solidify himself among the top guys in the league.

People would be calling him a bust by age 20.

 

[Ghost of jas]

I think as painful as it will be kreider will be moved. Maybe at the draft to get into the top 15 and take another big time pick and a higher end prospect.

Based on what @BBKers, I'm not sure you're right. It will depend on how the upcoming draft goes. If anything, that deal is only going to happen if they feel they need more pieces that they weren't able to get in the upcoming draft. But, let's say Winnipeg drops in the standings, and TB does win the Cup, and the Rangers potentially have 5 of the top 40-45 picks, and then trade up to get the players they've targeted. Then it sounds like Kreider could be sticking around, pending how amenable he is on a new contract.

 

[OthmannOut]

Does anybody know what the record for total number of first round draft picks in, say, 3 or 4 years consecutive years is? Seems like we have decent odds at 8 in 3.

 

[True Blue]

If zibanejad and Kreider are carrying this team you think they’re legitimate cup contenders?

A question that cannot be answered in a vacuum. All depends on who else is around them. Have they taken even further steps in their development? If your top line forwards are your top forwards, isn't it the way it is supposed to be?

But again, this just obfuscates what you seem to be proposing. That being constant trading away of your best players until you are bad enough to have the first overall pick. You believe that gives you your best chance at a superstar player.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Does anybody know what the record for total number of first round draft picks in, say, 3 or 4 years consecutive years is? Seems like we have decent odds at 8 in 3.

Boston between 1969 and 1971 had 8 in 3 drafts
Montreal between 1970 and 1972 had 9 in 3 drafts and between 1974 and 1976 they had 10

 

[True Blue]

I almost wonder what people are seeing right now. He's answered just about every question mark that's been raised about him.

I ask that very same question about both him and Kreider.

 

[NYR Viper]

I also think that where the angers end up in the draft lottery will somewhat determine Gorton's next move.

We have discussed this before but just because the team signs a UFA or starts building the team back to contention DOES NOT mean they need to start trading away assets at deadlines or not making smart moves for the future. It's not a binary or black and white decision. They can do both

 

[LaffyTaffy]

I also think that where the angers end up in the draft lottery will somewhat determine Gorton's next move.

We have discussed this before but just because the team signs a UFA or starts building the team back to contention DOES NOT mean they need to start trading away assets at deadlines or not making smart moves for the future. It's not a binary or black and white decision. They can do both

I’ve been mentally preparing myself for a forward, but if the Rangers truly pick BPA even if it is Byram then i will certainly be a happy camper. That would do wonders for the future of our Defense and i would go Forward the rest of the draft, swing for the stars towards the back like SJS did with Chmelevski and Chekhovich. This happens every year, the TDL passes and all I can think about is the draft.