Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XXX

[FireGerardGallant]

That wasn't the point (pun intended) though. It was about star players found outside the first round

They can. Also, need that top draft picks as well

 

[duhmetreE]

Correct but are those teams as good without the 4 players I mentioned? It's not that this team needs to just tank draft high and instant cups but that's a part of it. They need a mixture of high draft picks, getting good picks late and good trade/fa signings

TB would be a decent/fringe team without Kucherov and Point.

 

[nyr2k2]

Kucherov, Gaudreau and Point are top 5 in scoring and weren't even first round picks.

Of the top 50 scorers currently, 37 were picked in round 1, one is Artemi Panarin, and 12 were picked after the first round (a couple just barely).

74% of the top scorers are first round picks, most within the top ten. 24% came after round one. Yes, you can find these guys, but it's much easier with a high pick.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

That's a strawman argument.

If Zucc were to be re-signed, we'd look to ADD to the team and let kids develop. To improve the defense and make the moves necessary.

There's not only 2 choices.

So....end the rebuild after 11 months?

You go FULL rebuild or you don't at all.

 

[FireGerardGallant]

TB would be a decent/fringe team without Kucherov and Point.

And where do you think they are without Stamkos and Headmen?

 

[Larrybiv]

Correct but are those teams as good without the 4 players I mentioned? It's not that this team needs to just tank draft high and instant cups but that's a part of it. They need a mixture of high draft picks, getting good picks late and good trade/fa signings

And those teams that have great scouts (and a little luck) and the drive of those players to get better with thos "late picks" that turn out to be stars.......are the teams that flourish.
No offense intended......we get Fast, they get Point. We get oh, forget it.
At some "point" you pass on the charcter and reach for a star.
Need character in NY, but you need TALENT more. Easier to teach character, than to teach talent. Can you even teach talent?
Don't suppose.....you can refine it though.

 

[Rangers in 7]

And where do you think they are without Stamkos and Headmen?

theyd be in the same place without headmen......mainly because headmen doesnt exist

 

[Kovalev27]

David Quinn just made my day in his press conference and answered a very big question so we know he’s not insane.

He WANTS DeAngelo with Staal. Says that’s their best pair but because of the personnel and how good tony is in his ability to play the left comfortably and produce with Shattenkirk he felt that is the best way to put the pairings together. Tony did play the most mins last night.

So it’s a relief to see the coach knows who the better pairing is. He’s protecting Pionk with probably his most reliable defensive guy (not saying much) in staal

 

[FireGerardGallant]

They made Game 7 of the ECF without Stamkos

Made the final with Stamkos. And they still had Hedman on that run

 

[Ghost of jas]

David Quinn just made my day in his press conference and answered a very big question so we know he’s not insane.

He WANTS DeAngelo with Staal. Says that’s their best pair but because of the personnel and how good tony is in his ability to play the left comfortably and produce with Shattenkirk he felt that is the best way to put the pairings together. Tony did play the most mins last night.

So it’s a relief to see the coach knows who the better pairing is. He’s protecting Pionk with probably his most reliable defensive guy (not saying much) in staal

He was paid extra to say that.

 

[Edge]

As it should be, and almost certainly always was.

Because his value did not yo-yo nearly as much as speculated on here.

 

[Ghost of jas]

As it should be, and almost certainly always was.

Because his value did not yo-yo nearly as much as speculated on here.

Been using the Grabner trade as a model - either a 1st and a Rykov-level prospect or a 2nd and a better prospect than Rykov. Nothing has changed in my mind.

 

[Edge]

Been using the Grabner trade as a model - either a 1st and a Rykov-level prospect or a 2nd and a better prospect than Rykov. Nothing has changed in my mind.

I think that's accurate.

Same with using Stastny as a model for Hayes. Start there and then bump it up a little.

Look I'm not going to lie, I'm as greedy as the next person when it comes to our returns and the number of picks we could have in the 2019 draft. I just try to keep the dream based in some sort of reality.

But yeah, I'm perfectly okay with Tampa getting their cup and the Rangers heading into the draft with a top 5 pick and 3 other first rounders. I'll work with that, even if it doesn't include Hughes.

 

[bobbop]

Of the top 50 scorers currently, 37 were picked in round 1, one is Artemi Panarin, and 12 were picked after the first round (a couple just barely).

74% of the top scorers are first round picks, most within the top ten. 24% came after round one. Yes, you can find these guys, but it's much easier with a high pick.

This.

And unspoken is that the ratio of good defensemen found in the second round and beyond is much higher (e.g. Weber, Subban, Keith].

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

I guess it depends on what teams are willing to part with - if we're just getting more quantity from one team for a package of both then it's not worth it, but if the two together can get a high end prospect that wouldn't be on the table for either of them alone, it might be worth it.

I agree but we had dreams of Point+ for McDonagh and Miller and that didnt happen. I feel like its extremely difficult to pry away a true top, young talent from any team. NHL form or not. Its stripping away an exciting and more importantly cheap top producer from your roster.

 

[LeetchisGod]

Kucherov, Gaudreau and Point are top 5 in scoring and weren't even first round picks.

The Rangers have shown no ability to find offensive studs in the later rounds. The odds are much better with a top five pick.

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

David Quinn just made my day in his press conference and answered a very big question so we know he’s not insane.

He WANTS DeAngelo with Staal. Says that’s their best pair but because of the personnel and how good tony is in his ability to play the left comfortably and produce with Shattenkirk he felt that is the best way to put the pairings together. Tony did play the most mins last night.

So it’s a relief to see the coach knows who the better pairing is. He’s protecting Pionk with probably his most reliable defensive guy (not saying much) in staal

Yep, finally he's seen the light. Staal/Tony D as been the best defensive pair on the team this season.

I honestly believe at this point that Pionk is the actual tire fire and has made Staal look worse and not the other way around as most of us thought.

Staal has actually been fine this season. Overpaid and over extended in his role, but vastly better than he'd been the past couple seasons.

Tony has been making great progress and looks like a completely different player all around than he did last season at this point. He's a young player learning and finally putting it together. The pairing with Staal actually makes sense, Tony is great at breaking the puck out which is Staal's biggest weakness. Staal is actually decent in zone defensively so he helps Tony in that regard.

I actually think Staal/Tony D would be a decent 2nd pair on an actually good team.

 

[Edge]

This.

And unspoken is that the ratio of good defensemen found in the second round and beyond is much higher (e.g. Weber, Subban, Keith].

I was looking back through drafts on HockeyDB.com the other day and it reminded me of how much the draft has changed since I started following it.

When I started, you still had talents scattered across multiple rounds and it wasn't uncommon for your best players to be found anywhere and everywhere.

And while that still happens, there's been a tremendous shift to talent being concentrated in the first round. Heck, even the second round doesn't produce the smattering of depth players that it used to.

Yeah, there's always going to be a Gaudreau to be found, but they are fewer and farther between. To say nothing about there being several guys like in one draft.

 

[bobbop]

I’m sure GMJG has set a high price on Zuccarello and is holding firm. I expect he will get his price.

The news on Duchesne certainly helps clarify the Hayes market. If Winnipeg wants to dump a contract as part of the deal that raises the price. I’d love nothing more than to have Nashville and Winnipeg bidding against each other.

I do wonder where Panarin is heading though. I could see him with the Islanders.

 

[bleedblue94]

The Rangers have shown no ability to find offensive studs in the later rounds. The odds are much better with a top five pick.

Think NYR has drafted to try to find safe nhl potential players (bottom 6 guys) so they could recycle the bottom tier guys with cheaper contracts while constantly paying for the top line guys. Hopefully they are starting to shift the strategy

 

[Vinny DeAngelo]

Think NYR has drafted to try to find safe nhl potential players (bottom 6 guys) so they could recycle the bottom tier guys with cheaper contracts while constantly paying for the top line guys. Hopefully they are starting to shift the strategy

I think it stems from being too confident in their top picks... “you take 3 high skill guys you need someone to fill out the bottom line so might as well draft a safer guy” it’s a dumb idea but one I don’t put past them

 

[Kovalev27]

I don’t see high end ufas signing with the islanders when teams like the Rangers or Kings want him. The amenities make a big difference. Islanders don’t have a home. Belmont is now being delayed. No one is going to pick the islanders over the Rangers. Never going to happen

 

[haveandare]

Is the idea seriously that Panarin is still going to get traded? If so, the Duchene move makes even less sense.

 

[Matt Rentfree]

Is the idea seriously that Panarin is still going to get traded? If so, the Duchene move makes even less sense.

I was under the impression that CBJ are buyers and going for a cup. I think they're keeping Panarin.

 

[haveandare]

I was under the impression that CBJ are buyers and going for a cup. I think they're keeping Panarin.

Yeah, I can't imagine they'd move Panarin now after adding Duchene.