Speculation: Roster Building Thread - Part XXVI

[jay from jersey]

There's ways around it. From what we've gathered, signing bonuses are taxed at your place of residence. Game salary is taxed at the city/state level. ie. Panarin got paid 12M already this season. allegedly, his 'official' place of residence is in Florida. That's taxed at Florida rates.

That's the point as well. If all of our top players care about money and maximizing profits, we will not win. I have nothing against anyone who thinks that way but there's a certain threshold, once crossed, the differences are minimal to non-existent.

edit- you can't demand people to take less money but a little bit off the top to help the team is not un heard of.

yea these guys have agents/accountants that know every little trick in the system. Besides NY being NY, our GMs massively front load a lot of our big deal. That’s really advantageous to the player and the agent, because they can but out a bigger sum faster and start putting that money to work for you. There’s still a lot of teams in the league that can’t do that for various reasons

 

[jay from jersey]

If the leak is true (and Kypreos has had NYR info in the past hasn't he?) that the NYR are both 1. past medical concerns and 2. willing to let him have the surgery he wants, that is an extremely significant development.

Can't imagine that would be be decided and come out unless the NYR were pretty in on this. Of course, most likely answer is probably that this is BS. But if it is true this definitely seems like a big development. At minimum if the medical conversations have been had between Adams and teams, indicates he may just be sifting through offers / trying to extract maximum value. And the "he wants too much" is just the usual posturing when there is no hard deadline.

We’ve likely been ok with the medical for at least a good 2 months IMO, maybe more. Drury is in the waiting/Bargaining stage. He knows he has Zibby/Strome at least til the end of this season. I also think that Zibbys bro/agent is taking a hard line stance on the contract and there is little progress atm.
Drury is for sure checking in periodically with the Sabres situation. He knows we’re likely 1 of the only, if only teams with the cap space, assets, need for Eichel. He also knows that the Owner is in his corner whatever he does, which is huge. Drury is playing it the right way and trying to leverage the Eichel camp and Zibby camp against each other to get his price on 1 or the other.
He knows Eichel is likely only to play maybe a third of a season this year, he knows the NMC and bonus are coming up next season, and he knows Eichel’s value has only decreased since this whole fiasco started.
Resigning Zibby remains option A, but not at his current ask. I think if there’s no movement from Zibbys camp, Drury/brass feel completely comfortable replacing him with Eichel by next season, even with the injury.
I see a small window where having both as a 1-2 punch remains a possibility. But in that instance, it’s going to require a 3rd team eating 2-3 mill per on Eichel’s deal or Moving 1 of Kreider/Trouba before their NMC kicks in. Both tasks aren’t going to be easy to accomplish but can’t be ruled out entirely either.

 

[haohmaru]

if only Kreider played the way we all know he is capable of, all the time instead of just when he feels like it.

We talkin’ the 17 minutes in the box or the bear hugs?

 

[Bacon Artemi Bravo]

Imagine a team not only agreeing to pay Jack Eichel $10 million this year with basically zero chance of him playing, but also paying top, premium assets to do so? Oh, and if the surgery doesnt work out(distinct possibility), you're on the hook for 4 more years at the same amount. To top it all off, he has a NTC kicking in next summer.

Gee I wonder why a deal hasn't been made yet

 

[duhmetreE]

Imagine a team not only agreeing to pay Jack Eichel $10 million this year with basically zero chance of him playing, but also paying top, premium assets to do so? Oh, and if the surgery doesnt work out(distinct possibility), you're on the hook for 4 more years at the same amount. To top it all off, he has a NTC kicking in next summer.

Gee I wonder why a deal hasn't been made yet

the risk may be worth it if they eat 50% of cap

We're approaching 'Jagr for Anson Carter' type deal soon

 

[jay from jersey]

Imagine a team not only agreeing to pay Jack Eichel $10 million this year with basically zero chance of him playing, but also paying top, premium assets to do so? Oh, and if the surgery doesnt work out(distinct possibility), you're on the hook for 4 more years at the same amount. To top it all off, he has a NTC kicking in next summer.

Gee I wonder why a deal hasn't been made yet

In the small chance everything goes wrong like you propose. Eichel’s 10 mill wouldn’t count against the cap. 50 mill isn’t really a huge risk for James Dolan as disgusting as it is to say.
The fact that he’s injured/ disgruntled is the only way you’d land a talent like him without giving up a LaF/kakko.
I’m sure we’d have to give 1-2 solid assets like a Lundkvist/chytil/kravtsov a late 1st and some salary going that way, but not much more.
When you factor in how deep our wings/farm are and what your getting back if your doctors truly believe Eichel will return to form after surgery, the reward factor far outweighs the risk. Especially if Dolan is ok with the financial hit if things go haywire.
Like I’ve been saying for months, if drury gets him at his price..( what he’s ok with giving and how we fill it internally) and the Zibby situation is too much to endure, he’s going to make the move.
I’m really interested to see how they would both fit here. That would be some impressive cap maneuvers by our Rookie GM

 

[Bacon Artemi Bravo]

In the small chance everything goes wrong like you propose. Eichel’s 10 mill wouldn’t count against the cap. 50 mill isn’t really a huge risk for James Dolan as disgusting as it is to say.
The fact that he’s injured/ disgruntled is the only way you’d land a talent like him without giving up a LaF/kakko.
I’m sure we’d have to give 1-2 solid assets like a Lundkvist/chytil/kravtsov a late 1st and some salary going that way, but not much more.
When you factor in how deep our wings/farm are and what your getting back if your doctors truly believe Eichel will return to form after surgery, the reward factor far outweighs the risk. Especially if Dolan is ok with the financial hit if things go haywire

I don't think successful businessmen get to where they are by throwing away $50 million dollars without caring. Of course he would care. Could he absorb it while other teams may literally go under? Yes of course...but make no mistake, Dolan wants to make winning, value added moves. He does not want to throw away $50 million dollars and I am sure that is a factor, even if it wouldnt hit the cap.

 

[jay from jersey]

I don't think successful businessmen get to where they are by throwing away $50 million dollars without caring. Of course he would care. Could he absorb it while other teams may literally go under? Yes of course...but make no mistake, Dolan wants to make winning, value added moves. He does not want to throw away $50 million dollars and I am sure that is a factor, even if it wouldnt hit the cap.

Yea but your automatically assuming that Eichel is broken forever without any chance of returning to form, or dare I say, playing better. That’s the gamble. He’s not throwing 50 mill out the window.
And the money he pissed away on the knicks and rangers in the dark days make that look like chump change.
You think he gives a shit? He’ll just boost ticket/food/booze prices again.

I think fans, particularly not fans of the Sabres forget how good Eichel really is. He’s an incredible talent at 24 years old that we normally would have 0% chance of acquiring.
It’s because of everything that comes with him that makes it the gamble.

he’s not some about to be 30 year old whose best days are in the rear view looking to cash in on a retirement deal.
He’s one of the most prolific talents in the league at 24 years old ( when healthy) whose motivated, tired of losing, and wants to play playoff hockey.

Zibby really started to mature and turn into the player he is now at Eichel’s current age.
They both have had a similar injury history/missed games up until Eichel’s neck injury.
Yes, there’s a chance that the injury affects his play or that surgery can go wrong. But there is also a chance we haven’t seen the best Jack Eichel has to offer. He’s on Panarins skill level when he’s going. Truly amazing talent

 

[jay from jersey]

the risk may be worth it if they eat 50% of cap

We're approaching 'Jagr for Anson Carter' type deal soon

the risk may be worth it if they eat 50% of cap

We're approaching 'Jagr for Anson Carter' type deal soon

i can see that happening if Adams is dumb enough to keep him on the Sabres long enough to let his NMC kick in. If Eichel goes all that time without playing, I see him and his agent being petty and getting some payback

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

The return time on Eichel is probably aggressive and I’d personally rather play it safe if I was the acquiring team

however I could see him coming back for the playoffs if the team who acquires him makes it

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

The return time on Eichel is probably aggressive and I’d personally rather play it safe if I was the acquiring team

however I could see him coming back for the playoffs if the team who acquires him makes it

So you're saying Eichel to Tampa is confirmed.

 

[Bacon Artemi Bravo]

Yea but your automatically assuming that Eichel is broken forever without any chance of returning to form, or dare I say, playing better. That’s the gamble. He’s not throwing 50 mill out the window.
And the money he pissed away on the knicks and rangers in the dark days make that look like chump change.
You think he gives a shit? He’ll just boost ticket/food/booze prices again.

I think fans, particularly not fans of the Sabres forget how good Eichel really is. He’s an incredible talent at 24 years old that we normally would have 0% chance of acquiring.
It’s because of everything that comes with him that makes it the gamble.

he’s not some about to be 30 year old whose best days are in the rear view looking to cash in on a retirement deal.
He’s one of the most prolific talents in the league at 24 years old ( when healthy) whose motivated, tired of losing, and wants to play playoff hockey.

Zibby really started to mature and turn into the player he is now at Eichel’s current age.
They both have had a similar injury history/missed games up until Eichel’s neck injury.
Yes, there’s a chance that the injury affects his play or that surgery can go wrong. But there is also a chance we haven’t seen the best Jack Eichel has to offer. He’s on Panarins skill level when he’s going. Truly amazing talent

Right, of course that is correct. It is just the worst case scenario. My only point is that it has to be part of the calculation as to whether to trade for JE at all, and if so, what price is appropriate given the risk? I was only stating that Dolan would in fact care if he lost $50MM, and since that is certainly possible(not probable, but possible), it has to be included as a part of the discussion/decision process on whether to pursue.

I think honestly the bigger issue is that JE will most likely not play this season. Thats hard to sell to Dolan, given what we know about him and his urgency to win in the near future.

 

[Bacon Artemi Bravo]

The return time on Eichel is probably aggressive and I’d personally rather play it safe if I was the acquiring team

however I could see him coming back for the playoffs if the team who acquires him makes it

That's assuming he gets the surgery in the near future...which would mean a deal would need to be done fast. If they wait a month or longer, I doubt hes back at all.

 

[Osminator]

New York Rangers
@NYRangers
·
8 Min.
OFFICIAL: #NYR have assigned defenseman Zac Jones to
@WolfPackAHL. The Rangers have 25 players remaining in training camp.

 

[Paulie Walnutz]

Imagine a team not only agreeing to pay Jack Eichel $10 million this year with basically zero chance of him playing, but also paying top, premium assets to do so? Oh, and if the surgery doesnt work out(distinct possibility), you're on the hook for 4 more years at the same amount. To top it all off, he has a NTC kicking in next summer.

Gee I wonder why a deal hasn't been made yet

Yeah exactly and Buffalo is only shooting itself in the foot by not letting him have surgery. Teams are weary of trading many assets and taking on a large cap number in a flat cap world for a guy who might not be the same player after the surgery. It serves everyone’s best interests to let him have the surgery AND come back and have him do a conditioning stint in the minors. That way Eichel can see how he feels and teams can evaluate if he’s back to his old self. Everybody wins.

 

[Avery16]

We talkin’ the 17 minutes in the box or the bear hugs?

Baby steps

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

That's assuming he gets the surgery in the near future...which would mean a deal would need to be done fast. If they wait a month or longer, I doubt hes back at all.

I think that the goal for who ever gets him is to have something done before the season starts.

He can wait a month, get the procedure he wants and still play this year, but he would also be one minor setback from not playing at all.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

If you are not willing to put Jones in a package for Eichel, you are insane.

1st, 2nd, Jones, and Chytil. I’ll add a bit more if I’m confident he’ll be fully healthy.

Realistically thats not getting it done

 

[Levitate]

https://nhl.nbcsports.com/2021/10/0...ichel-brady-tkachuk-updates-ovechkin-gretzky/

https://twitter.com/alirendely

Assessing Jack Eichel's treatment options with Dr. Ali Rendely - Sportsnet.ca

This dude is not playing this season with either surgery.

The doctor from Colorado offered a shorter recovery time. He said 6 weeks. Dreger keeps saying several months. I bring that up because Dreger is close with Brisson. Returning to high level of competition is more than 6 weeks. Rendely explains the process. Six months for both surgeries. Could be more for the disc replacement. Risk of paralysis with both surgeries. Her explanation of the disc replacement. Bone graft. Replacing space between the vertebrae. The bone graft metal needs to fuse to the neck. Six weeks?

if none of these people have seen his medical records and examined him AND unless they are familiar with pro sports rehab then I'd take what they have to say with a grain of salt

 

[jay from jersey]

Right, of course that is correct. It is just the worst case scenario. My only point is that it has to be part of the calculation as to whether to trade for JE at all, and if so, what price is appropriate given the risk? I was only stating that Dolan would in fact care if he lost $50MM, and since that is certainly possible(not probable, but possible), it has to be included as a part of the discussion/decision process on whether to pursue.

I think honestly the bigger issue is that JE will most likely not play this season. Thats hard to sell to Dolan, given what we know about him and his urgency to win in the near future.

If he doesn’t get the surgery very soon, I agree with ya. I doubt he’ll step foot on the ice at all. If he gets it within the next month or 2, there’s a chance of him coming back for the end of the season/playoff like kucherov did

 

[jay from jersey]

if none of these people have seen his medical records and examined him AND unless they are familiar with pro sports rehab then I'd take what they have to say with a grain of salt

I can’t see 6 weeks. That’s insane. Especially with ADR and a full contact hard hitting sport like hockey. You want that area around the replacement to be completely healed and then start strengthening it.
My guess would be 5-6 months.
Fusion 6-9 months.
When I got my fusion on my back it was 8-9 months before I was back doing normal things at work/sports etc

 

[Richard Banger]

Realistically thats not getting it done

If they don’t accept that deal than move on. No one in hell is Drury giving up another more for a player that is going to absolutely destroy our cap and not help us this season.

 

[Levitate]

I can’t see 6 weeks. That’s insane. Especially with ADR and a full contact hard hitting sport like hockey. You want that area around the replacement to be completely healed and then start strengthening it.
My guess would be 5-6 months.
Fusion 6-9 months.
When I got my fusion on my back it was 8-9 months before I was back doing normal things at work/sports etc

Yeah I'm not saying 6 weeks is feasible either, just that for one a pro athlete rehabbing stuff is far different than regular person rehabbing stuff. For one, it's their literal job and not just something to begrudgingly do inbetween your real work and family stuff, and two they have far better resources for the rehab including narcotics

 

[bobbop]

Don't know if this was posted but on Vince's podcast he had Joe Micheletti as a guest and Joe said he thinks the choice for captain is between Fox and Trouba.

 

[Tob]

I think they try and send Hajek down right before injuries start to pile up around the league and someone picks him up on waivers. Probably still won't pass through but worth a shot.