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Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XXIV

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MahomesIsGod said:
Probably because Quinn isn’t a smug, *****ey **** face about it like AV was
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I appreciate the honesty that AV was portrayed as the world's worst coach around here because of his facial expressions.

It's actually much more refreshing than trying to square the venom thrown at him vs. his performance with the team over 5 years.
 
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Crease said:
The philosophy is fine for a rebuilding team. The roster is not built to win. Even if you benched the Howdens for the Buchnevichs, this team would still miss the playoffs.
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I agree with this idea completely, but valuing "things and stuff" over talent has been Rangers culture for their entire existence, from rebuilding to contending.

duhmetreE said:
Having talent doesn't make you a good and professional hockey player

That's all Buch has, is talent.
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Hey you know what? Having no talent doesn't make you a good professional hockey player.
 
Ola said:
You forget that oranges^2 + apples^2 = giraffes^2, so in a sense it still had bearing on what I wrote.
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There's probably a word problem that exists in some textbook somewhere where this equation is absolutely true.
 
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Machinehead said:
I agree with this idea completely, but valuing "things and stuff" over talent has been Rangers culture for their entire existence, from rebuilding to contending.


Hey you know what? Having no talent doesn't make you a good professional hockey player.
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ok. You're creating strawman arguments. We went from talking about Buch to Howden and Pionk. Now, are you inferring Howden and Pionk have no talent?

You could win gold with the mental gymnastics you're portraying
 
duhmetreE said:
Quinn has said it in his own words in the post article. You choose to ignore it

“Development is funny. Some people think that development is to throw a guy out there and let him play and let him play. But development getting experience and ice time, but it’s also learning what we’re going to need big picture, too. Fil Chytil went through a stretch where he was playing 10 minutes a night because that’s what he deserved. You don’t just give somebody something. There’s also a checklist in my mind when I’m handling these guys of, ‘OK, what are your intentions?’ I’m big on intentions.

“Are you making a mistake yet you had the right intentions and it just didn’t work, or is your mistake one because you had the wrong intentions? Is your work ethic what it needs to be? Is your preparation what it needs to be? It’s our responsibility as a staff of sending the message of what is acceptable and what’s not. That’s part of development. Letting them know they have to earn what they get is part of development. That’s one of my most basic principles.”
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Ain't it funny how pretty much every coach who gets to this level mimics this message, but the armchair QB's on a message board get pissed when you're not just throwing out the guys who have "more talent?" I wonder who should be believed.
 
duhmetreE said:
ok. You're creating strawman arguments. We went from talking about Buch to Howden and Pionk. Now, are you inferring Howden and Pionk have no talent?
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Pionk clearly has some ability but he gets the results of a talentless scrub, which is the bottom line.

I haven't observed a single thing that Howden does particularly well except try super duper hard, but he's 20, so I'll see where it goes.

The point is, Quinn values doing whatever it is he told you to do over results. You said that's a misinterpretation and I don't think it is. Howden and Pionk are objectively worse players at this time and neither one has been disciplined.
 
Bleed Ranger Blue said:
Ain't it funny how pretty much every coach who gets to this level mimics this message, but the armchair QB's on a message board get pissed when you're not just throwing out the guys who have "more talent?" I wonder who should be believed.
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If you let a player slip by with minimal effort, poor work ethic/preparation and play that is contrary to what you are coaching... What does it say to a young team? What happens to the locker room? Why should I listen? Why should I prepare? Why should I break my ass?
 
To be clear, I'm not saying there aren't cases where talented players "don't get it." I'm not implying that talented players are immune to criticism or discipline.

The point I'm making is that, if you're simply awful, it doesn't matter if you do "get it." The Rangers, time and time again, miss the mark on that.
 
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Pawnee Rangers said:
Who Buffalo, Edmonton, Arizona, Florida? Or Tampa, Pittsburgh, Chicago? I’d say it’s a mixed bag. Personally, if your only reason for trading a player is “he doesn’t make us suck enough” you should go watch another sport.

There’s a lot of franchise players in this league who haven’t won spit.
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The Penguins and Bolts both posted VERY bad seasons immediately drafting Crosby/Stamkos respectively. Chicago is the exception to the rule, and even then they still missed playoffs.

Looking for long-term success instead of monkey dopamine fixes after meaningless regular season squeak-by wins is hardly a reason to switch sports.
 
Machinehead said:
Pionk clearly has some ability but he gets the results of a talentless scrub, which is the bottom line.

I haven't observed a single thing that Howden does particularly well except try super duper hard, but he's 20, so I'll see where it goes.

The point is, Quinn values doing whatever it is he told you to do over results. You said that's a misinterpretation and I don't think it is. Howden and Pionk are objectively worse players at this time and neither one has been disciplined.
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Could it possibly be that your observation is not what you think its worth?

You do not need to be hyperbolic to get a point across. Putting up 20pts in 42games in the NHL for a rookie... a talentless scrub? oh yeah, the corsi... I forgot .. Corsi say 'Pionk Bad'
 
Wind Waker said:
The Penguins and Bolts both posted VERY bad seasons immediately drafting Crosby/Stamkos respectively. Chicago is the exception to the rule, and even then they still missed playoffs.

Looking for long-term success instead of monkey dopamine fixes after meaningless regular season squeak-by wins is hardly a reason to switch sports.
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Chicago got Kane 1OA and Toews 3OA.

The only competitive team in the entire league over the past 10 years who NEVER picked top 5 is San Jose.
 
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duhmetreE said:
Could it possibly be that your observation is not what you think its worth?

You do not need to be hyperbolic to get a point across. Putting up 20pts in 42games in the NHL for a rookie... a talentless scrub? oh yeah, the corsi... I forgot .. Corsi say 'Pionk Bad'
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You can fall back on the "spreadsheet says X" strawman all you want, but the guy is outscored almost 2:1 at even strength.
 
Machinehead said:
You can fall back on the "spreadsheet says X" strawman all you want, but the guy is outscored almost 2:1 at even strength.
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So, he's not a talentless scrub?

Maybe a rookie who can improve defensively? Maybe benefit with playing with a vet that can help get the puck out?
 
duhmetreE said:
Could it possibly be that your observation is not what you think its worth?

You do not need to be hyperbolic to get a point across. Putting up 20pts in 42games in the NHL for a rookie... a talentless scrub? oh yeah, the corsi... I forgot .. Corsi say 'Pionk Bad'
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It's not just corsi. It's the fact that he's terrible both ways in transition, defending and moving the puck, he doesn't produce at 5v5, plus the shot and expected goal numbers. How is looking at raw point totals which were heavily influenced by amazing PP shooting% and iPP% are fine to look at any better?
 
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I'm not even against Buchnevich being scratched. He has 39 shots in 32 games.

However, scratching him (or anyone) while continuing to send Howden out there to die, and continuing to send McLeod out there to make everyone else die, is representative of problematic philosophies within the organization, that being, you can literally be bad if you try hard.

And yes, we're rebuilding, and I would be ok with that if we didn't do the same exact thing when we were contending (Giradi, Dan. Glass, Tanner.)
 
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DanielBrassard said:
It's not just corsi. It's the fact that he's terrible both ways in transition, defending and moving the puck, he doesn't produce at 5v5, plus the shot and expected goal numbers. How is looking at raw point totals which were heavily influenced by amazing PP shooting% and iPP% are fine to look at any better?
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It's ironic because that's what Buch is, the initial guy we were talking about but it digressed into Pionk.
 
Wind Waker said:
The Penguins and Bolts both posted VERY bad seasons immediately drafting Crosby/Stamkos respectively. Chicago is the exception to the rule, and even then they still missed playoffs.

Looking for long-term success instead of monkey dopamine fixes after meaningless regular season squeak-by wins is hardly a reason to switch sports.
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And what about the other teams and their franchise players? Everyone points to Chicago and Pittsburgh like it’s some mythical blueprint. They got lucky, especially Pittsburgh. The NHL doesn’t give the first pick to the worst team. If they did it would be a different story. Moving your best players for the sole purpose of sucking is stupid. They didn’t pick until 9 last year and by all accounts all three of their picks look legit. This doesn’t have to be an either or scenario.
 
I think it's pretty obvious that Buchnevich' scratching came out due to something that happened during practice. With Zuke out to me - it's all on Buch. Disappointing.
 
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DanielBrassard said:
That's not what Buch is, he's shown a lot more promise at 5v5 than that. Pionk has been a terrible 5v5 player since he stepped onto the ice in the NHL.
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Do you still have those splits for Buch’s shot rates pre-and-post-injury? He’s fallen off a cliff since then
 
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